*Strangelv sings "Domo Arigato, Mr. TBottu..." |
kb9vqf | Heh |
kb9vqf | That's mine |
kb9vqf | He's OK :) |
Strangelv | "Process keeps dying? |
kb9vqf | I'm still setting it up |
kb9vqf | Getting the logging going and such |
*kb9vqf notes the configuration file format isn't very friendly |
Strangelv | Noticed that the PID keeps incrimenting |
kb9vqf | Ctrl+C will do that ;-) |
kb9vqf | He won't do anything here for a while |
Strangelv | There's no equivalent for a talk page with FOSWiki, is there? |
kb9vqf | I don't know, sorry |
kb9vqf | I kind of like FOSWiki but I think I may be the only one here who does :-( |
*Strangelv has also discovered that the markup isn't whath's throwing him -- it's that it saves not the markup but an html version of it, then converts the html back to markup, losing important things along the way |
Strangelv | "What are its strong points? |
kb9vqf | Hang on |
kb9vqf | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software |
Strangelv | I've tried to use worse. It may actualyl be the second best wiki available, from my admittedly limited and dated experience |
kb9vqf | Scroll down to Features |
kb9vqf | The WYSIWYG editor is one |
kb9vqf | Extensibility is another |
kb9vqf | I also seem to have stopped Wiki spam cold :) |
kb9vqf | And you can't beat the license |
Piki | not many people use FOSwiki, probably not enough incentive to make bots for it |
*kb9vqf wonders where tbottu is dumping his log files |
*tbottu has joined #trinity-desktop |
*tbottu has joined #trinity-desktop |
*tbottu has joined #trinity-desktop |
*Strangelv : http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/bin/view/Artwork/LogoBrainstorm |
Strangelv | What are some of the worst? |
kb9vqf | I like the one on the bottom :) |
kb9vqf | By the way, TQt stands for "Trinity Qt", not "Tiny Qt" ;-) |
kb9vqf | It's anything BUT tiny |
kb9vqf | Qt4 should be called "Tiny Qt" |
kb9vqf | Seeing as it's missing so many features |
Strangelv | "It's open for confusion, and if we call it Trinity Qt it might discourage other developers from believing it would have anything to do with their needs |
kb9vqf | I suppose |
kb9vqf | Well, it's not released yet |
kb9vqf | It can always be renamed |
kb9vqf | The Qt4 variant that is |
Piki | how about sqt: superior qt interface |
kb9vqf | Sounds like squid :-{ |
Strangelv | SQt... we could use a radical for a logo. 8) |
Strangelv | "Squid... a radical in a naval uniform? |
kb9vqf | XD |
kb9vqf | Nice and professional, that! |
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Piki | and perhaps at some point program it with some FAQs about TDE and TQt |
kb9vqf | It does have info abilities |
Strangelv | RadKade1 had a bot in gameslink #unreal that kept a list of amusing quotes and would play one back at random. ...it was a bit less business than this one... |
kb9vqf | Heh :) |
Piki | so we can just do "!tqt" and have it display a list of it's FAQs |
*kb9vqf plays some ut2004 now and then |
kb9vqf | Piki: yes |
Piki | i don't paly games much, occasional pacman or super mario, but nothing fancy or overly-violent, i prefer mild |
kb9vqf | Supertux anyone ? |
*kb9vqf doesn't play often either |
kb9vqf | But every now and then can be amusing |
Piki | i've played supertux, amusing how they've copied over the super mario conepts so closely |
*kb9vqf has never played super mario |
Strangelv | '"I've only seen it. I never ad aty console system,s just my father's Aple ][ plus |
kb9vqf | tbottu: what is tqt? |
tbottu | kb9vqf: Sorry, I've no idea what 'tqt' is. |
kb9vqf | He's kind of dumb right now |
kb9vqf | tbottu: what is tqt? |
tbottu | kb9vqf: I have heard that tqt is the Trinity Qt Interface |
Piki | kb9vqf: it's one of the all time classics, you're not a gaming fan until you've played super mario, sonic, zelda, and the old arcade classics ;-) |
kb9vqf | Nope, not a gaming fan here |
kb9vqf | Though I do like the older arcade games |
kb9vqf | Bosconian, etc. |
Piki | bosconian? too young to remember that one ;-) |
kb9vqf | Heh |
Strangelv | BLAST OFF! ALLY! ALLY! SPY SHIPS SIGHTED! |
Strangelv | I must admit that even when it first came out I was a littly unnerved that I was fighting an enemy force that lacked projectile technology |
Strangelv | Sinistar was noticelbly less impossible in the arcades than on MAME |
kb9vqf | :) |
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*tbottu has joined #trinity-desktop |
Strangelv | tbottu: what is the capital of assyria? |
tbottu | Strangelv: Sorry, I've no idea what 'the capital of assyria' is. |
Strangelv | tbottu: Does the wiki have the DebianRepositoryPlugin? |
tbottu | Strangelv: Sorry, I've no idea what 'Does the wiki have the DebianRepositoryPlugin' might be. |
kb9vqf | He knows nothing right now |
kb9vqf | You can give tbottu information like this: tbottu: The capital of Assyria is Assur |
kb9vqf | tbottu: The capital of Assyria is Assur |
tbottu | kb9vqf: ok |
kb9vqf | tbottu: what is the capital of assyria? |
tbottu | kb9vqf: Well, The capital of Assyria is Assur |
kb9vqf | ;-) |
Strangelv | "Actualyl, tehre's moer than one answer. Nineveh, IIRC, was the final capital |
*kb9vqf wonders if there is a master info bot somewhere |
Strangelv | Mike likes my three gears graphic but is wondering how to make it recognizabel at 16x16px |
kb9vqf | Good question |
*Strangelv summons teh Master Mold |
Strangelv | My guess is to make the three colors sufficientyl distinct |
Strangelv | "The colors are placeholders. I'm thinking in terms of grabing them from the KDE 3 branding |
Strangelv | It might also make sense to change the positions of the gears |
Strangelv | "Thera re more ideas that I have badly sketched itn oraneg marke,r but I've not created vector graphics for them yet |
*Strangelv needs to get up and go te the kitchen sometime |
Strangelv | Actually ,looking at the page, there's really only one more I realyl want to spend tim making. |
Strangelv | It's for the built on a solid foundation concept |
Strangelv | A wall with missing portions and whit epaint that amkes for a giant lowercase 't' |
kb9vqf | Sounds good to replace my junky TQT logo ;-) |
Strangelv | Aerl you the one who made teh interim TDE logo? |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | From the original KDE logo |
Strangelv | What source files did you have? |
kb9vqf | The svg source |
kb9vqf | svgz |
kb9vqf | That's it |
Strangelv | "That could definitely help. Where is it located? |
kb9vqf | It's in the kdelibs module IIRC |
Strangelv | "I could grab colors off of that if nothing else |
kb9vqf | Sure |
kb9vqf | It opens fine in Inkscape |
Strangelv | Also I was wondering about the location of the powered on graphics |
kb9vqf | ? |
kb9vqf | Where are they used in the Trinity UI? |
Strangelv | during startup |
kb9vqf | Those are usually distro-specific |
kb9vqf | The Ubuntu ones I made from the Ubuntu KDE logo |
Strangelv | It might be something to tinker on iven if it's only for Tubuntu |
kb9vqf | Why not |
kb9vqf | I don't remember offhand where those files are |
kb9vqf | Probably in the kubuntu splash package |
kb9vqf | for plymouth |
kb9vqf | Be warned the color palette is very limited during startup |
Strangelv | is the color palette part of teh image or is trial and error required? |
kb9vqf | Set it to 8 bit and you should be OK |
kb9vqf | It varies from system to system |
kb9vqf | Intel provides a full 32-bit palette |
kb9vqf | nVidia provides the lousy 8-bit one |
kb9vqf | And there's a whole range in between |
Strangelv | Will any 8 bit pallet work or is there a specific one? Have an equivalent of the 256 color safe palette that went out the windowm when only 22 of them, mostly bright greens, worked with 16 bit too? |
kb9vqf | The 256 color one |
kb9vqf | That's the safest |
*Strangelv grew up with 8 bits for 6 colors on 7 pixels. He can adjust |
kb9vqf | :) |
*kb9vqf grew up on a very similar system |
Strangelv | Which one? |
kb9vqf | An old 486 SX |
kb9vqf | DOS FTW |
Strangelv | Okay, that's WAAY ahead of what I grew up on |
kb9vqf | Heh |
kb9vqf | What's yours |
kb9vqf | ? |
kb9vqf | BTW it was new at the time :) |
Strangelv | When I was 11 my father spent enough money to buy a car on a top end Apple ][ plus |
kb9vqf | Ouch |
kb9vqf | Nice machine though |
Strangelv | 48 xB RAM, floating point BASIC, 16 sectored disk operating system and actual floppy driwes |
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kb9vqf | Hey, it works! |
kb9vqf | What bout Bug 67? |
tbottu | Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=67 cri, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESO WORKSFORME, Errors while installing kde 3.5 |
kb9vqf | :) |
*Strangelv claps |
*kb9vqf will get the logs published on the Trinity website...eventually..... |
*kb9vqfoutside has joined #trinity-desktop |
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Strangelv | Bug 365? |
kb9vqf | tbottu: what is TDE? |
tbottu | Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=365 blo, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, GPG Key and Repositories not Accessible |
tbottu | kb9vqf: Well, TDE is the Trinity Desktop Environment |
kb9vqf | He's running for good now |
kb9vqf | No more cycling needed AFAIK |
kb9vqf | :) |
*Strangelv claps |
Strangelv | assyria? |
<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="kb9vqf" time="2011-02-04T07:32:21Z">+o tbottu </mode> |
kb9vqf | Doesn't work that way |
kb9vqf | From what I can tell queries have to be directed at tbottu |
kb9vqf | tbottu: What is assyria? |
tbottu | kb9vqf: Sorry, I've no idea what 'assyria' is. |
Strangelv | "By bug question wasn't but still worked |
kb9vqf | Bugs are treated differently |
kb9vqf | This might not be the best info module |
kb9vqf | I can see if there is another |
kb9vqf | Also, /msg tbottu help is useful |
kb9vqf | TDE? |
kb9vqf | tbottu: TDE? |
tbottu | kb9vqf: TDE is the Trinity Desktop Environment |
Strangelv | tbottu, what is TDE? |
tbottu | Strangelv: I have heard that TDE is the Trinity Desktop Environment |
kb9vqf | tbottu: factoid? |
tbottu | kb9vqf: Sorry, I've no idea what 'factoid' might be. |
kb9vqf | tbottu: What is a factoid? |
tbottu | kb9vqf: A factoid is some information about a topic. A full list of factoid commands is available from /msg tbottu help infobot |
Strangelv | tbottu, what's 5+3? |
tbottu | Strangelv: Sorry, I've no idea what '5+3' might be. |
<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="tbottu" time="2011-02-04T07:39:06Z">+o kb9vqf </mode> |
kb9vqf | tbottu: translate from en to de Hello |
tbottu | kb9vqf: Request timed out more than 50 times |
kb9vqf | Hmmm |
kb9vqf | tbottu: translate using google from en to de Hello |
tbottu | kb9vqf: Noooo... That's not the right syntax at all! Try something like 'translate [using (Yahoo|Babelfish|Google)] [from (pt|it|zh|es|ru|nl|ar|en|zh-CN|fr|de|ja|zt|el)] [to (pt|it|zh|es|ru|nl|ar|en|zh-CN|fr|de|ja|zt|el)] sentence' |
kb9vqf | tbottu: translate using Google from en to de Hello |
tbottu | kb9vqf: Language "English" is not available |
kb9vqf | tbottu: translate using Yahoo from en to de Hello |
tbottu | kb9vqf: Hallo |
kb9vqf | tbottu: translate using Yahoo from en to ru Hello |
tbottu | kb9vqf: ! |
Piki | now i feel like an idiot: kept typing in the name of a file as a part of a command, couldn't find the file, but ls showed it as there. of course, i was was using a "-" in the file name, but i should have been using _ instead lol |
Strangelv | "doh |
Piki | hmm, apparently ru doesn't have a word for hello lol |
kb9vqf | :) |
Strangelv | Is IRC limited to 7 bit ASCII? |
kb9vqf | I think the Babelfish CPAN modules is a bit out of date |
kb9vqf | No |
kb9vqf | There are Russian conversations on here now and then |
Strangelv | "I remember now. Doh. |
kb9vqf | Hence my interest in the translation feature ;-) |
Piki | we get a lot of foreign languages over at ark, most common is de |
Piki | strangely enough, we used to get a lot of spam in russion on our forum |
kb9vqf | Huh |
Strangelv | tbottu: translate using Google from en to es The dashed lines mark the boundaries of the quadtree squares, and indicate that certain half-tiles can be recombined to form three more tiles, including one in which a square is divided into 26 triangles, all having angles of at most 80 degrees. |
tbottu | Strangelv: Language "English" is not available |
kb9vqf | The conversations in Russian here are actually the most productive :) |
Piki | and the occassional username in the greek alphabet |
kb9vqf | tbottu: translate using Google from es to de The dashed lines |
tbottu | kb9vqf: Language "Spanish" is not available |
kb9vqf | Hmmm |
kb9vqf | Seems quite broken |
kb9vqf | tbottu: translate using Yahoo from en to es The dashed lines mark the boundaries of the quadtree squares, and indicate that certain half-tiles can be recombined to form three more tiles, including one in which a square is divided into 26 triangles, all having angles of at most 80 degrees. |
tbottu | kb9vqf: Las l�neas discontinuas marcan los l�mites de los cuadrados del quadtree, e indican que ciertos mitad-azulejos se pueden recombinar para formar tres m�s azulejos, incluyendo uno en el cual un cuadrado se divida en 26 tri�ngulos, todo que |
tbottu | tiene �ngulos a lo m�s de 80 grados. |
Strangelv | That looks more successful |
kb9vqf | More or less |
kb9vqf | I guess use Yahoo for now |
kb9vqf | tbottu: translate using Yahoo from en to de The dashed lines mark the boundaries of the quadtree squares, and indicate that certain half-tiles can be recombined to form three more tiles, including one in which a square is divided into 26 triangles, all having angles of at most 80 degrees. |
tbottu | kb9vqf: Die ausgestrichenen Linien markieren die Grenzen der quadtree Quadrate und zeigen, dass bestimmte H�lftefliesen wiederverbunden werden k�nnen, um drei weitere Fliesen zu bilden, einschlie�lich, in der eine ein Quadrat in 26 Dreiecke |
tbottu | unterteilt wird, alle an, die Winkel von h�chstens 80 Grad hat. |
kb9vqf | Now that I can try to read :) |
kb9vqf | Enough fun with the bot for now |
kb9vqf | Back to our regularly scheduled on-topic programming :) |
*kb9vqf notes you can open a chat with the bot if you like |
Strangelv | tbottu: translate using Google from ru to en перевод ошибка сервера |
tbottu | Strangelv: Language "Russian" is not available |
Strangelv | "noted |
Strangelv | What's the topic again? |
kb9vqf | Why TDE of course :) |
*Strangelv was pondering something more specificg |
kb9vqf | Nope |
kb9vqf | I don't think the bits about the trees, squares, and angles have much to do with TDE though..... |
Strangelv | "well looking for. I don't have a god on eto offer at the moment unless it's to whine about the roadmap |
Strangelv | "it's what I could find that was technical first for testing purposes |
kb9vqf | I kind of figured |
kb9vqf | That's what the person-to-bot chats are for |
kb9vqf | But I don't mind |
kb9vqf | too much |
kb9vqf | :) |
Strangelv | What sorts of things would we need to have in place to call a nw version 3.6.00? |
kb9vqf | I'd like it converted to TQt |
Strangelv | fully working Qt4 support I presume |
kb9vqf | At least at alpha stage |
kb9vqf | The Trinity code itself should be nearly finalized |
kb9vqf | All bugs added during TQt-porting should be fixed |
Strangelv | finalized in what sense? |
kb9vqf | The bit about the bugs |
*kb9vqf was unclear, sorry |
Strangelv | Always remember: there will always be open trouble tickets |
kb9vqf | It should run correctly under Qt3 and compile under Qt4 |
kb9vqf | Of course |
Strangelv | "Stomping out the show-stoppers is important |
kb9vqf | I just mean bugs that were added as a result of the TQt port |
kb9vqf | And show stoppers |
Strangelv | "So you're thinking of modest changes? |
Strangelv | a new grlaphical scheme would be good to have to go along with it |
kb9vqf | A new theme? |
kb9vqf | I suppose |
Strangelv | haven't figuerd out where the GUI widget graphics are located |
kb9vqf | kdelibs |
Strangelv | "New default desktop, but I hope to have one of those before 3.5.13 |
kb9vqf | Much of them are painted though |
kb9vqf | I change the wallpaper every release :) |
kb9vqf | Styles are significantly harder |
Strangelv | root@Doomsday:/home/strangelv# locate -i kdelibs |
*Strangelv doesn't find much |
kb9vqf | Qt3 doesn't really have GUI pixmaps |
kb9vqf | Most GUI elements are painted on via C++ style code |
tbottu | c++ is evil |
kb9vqf | Whoa |
kb9vqf | Where'd that come from??!?? |
Piki | LOL |
*Strangelv withholds judgement on C++ |
Strangelv | "I'w assuming it's a default |
kb9vqf | "I never knew anything about 'C++' in the first place!" |
Piki | now i'm wandering about php and html ;-) |
Strangelv | There was a gimmick software program that seemed nice until you found out one of its defaults prevented Winodws from starting -- it seemed to assume everyone was mostly using DOS |
Strangelv | Python is enourmously more intuitive than C++. For that matter, so is C... |
*kb9vqf wonders if that was the Greeting module |
kb9vqf | It might have been randomly spewing things |
Strangelv | tbottu, what is C++ |
tbottu | Strangelv: Sorry, I've no idea what 'C++' is. |
Strangelv | hmm |
Strangelv | looks like the bot has made itself the topic again |
kb9vqf | Darned attention grabber |
kb9vqf | :-P |
kb9vqf | Back to styles |
kb9vqf | The only pixmaps are for icons |
kb9vqf | Those are in either kdelibs or kdebase |
kb9vqf | I forget which |
Strangelv | root@Doomsday:/home/strangelv# locate .svgz | grep -i kde | grep -v kde4 | grep -v icons |
*Strangelv gets a short list of wallpapers |
kb9vqf | .png |
kb9vqf | not .svgz |
kb9vqf | Most pixmaps in Trinity are .png |
kb9vqf | tbottu, what is C++ |
tbottu | kb9vqf: Maybe C++ is wonderful, surpassed only by C |
kb9vqf | :) |
kb9vqf | Much better |
*Strangelv gets a haystack |
Strangelv | finding no pngs in kdebase |
Strangelv | but thath's with locate, and it could have been moved somewhere completely different |
kb9vqf | kdelibs maybe |
*kb9vqf is obviously not sure |
Strangelv | I can't fault you for having trouble remembering given how much trouble I have with memory |
kb9vqf | And Trinity is massive ;-) |
*kb9vqf needs to get some sleep |
Strangelv | And it just dawned on me that /opt/kde3 is the last place I'm going to find the starup graphics |
Strangelv | type at youlater? |
kb9vqf | Sure |
kb9vqf | tbottu, what is tbottu |
tbottu | kb9vqf: Sorry, I've no idea what 'tbottu' is. |
kb9vqf | tbottu, what is tbottu |
tbottu | kb9vqf: Oh, I know this one! tbottu is your benevolent host and logging droid, capable of giving helpful misinformation, bug status messages, and translations via Yahoo |
*Strangelv dumps the geteral knowledge base into tbottu and fills up Timothy's HD |
kb9vqf | Hehe |
kb9vqf | Be my guest |
kb9vqf | See how fast you run into my logbot jail ;-) |
kb9vqf | gn all |
Strangelv | "later |
Piki | tbottu: what is your uptime? |
tbottu | Piki: Sorry, I've no idea what 'your uptime' is. |
Piki | wow, bots are amusing when they aren't programmed ;-) |
Strangelv | tbottu, what should I bug you about 365 days a year? |
tbottu | Strangelv: Sorry, I've no idea what 'what should I bug you about 365 days a year' might be. |
*Strangelv snaps his fingers |
Strangelv | There's an Eliza style chat bot that may come standard with LambdaMOO |
Strangelv | "It gets irritating in short order, except for a modified version that someone made with two of them being insecure, argumentive cats |
Strangelv | That just gets owverwhelming as they flood the page arguing with each other |
Strangelv | It does eventually get repetitious as well |
Piki | tbottu: what is TDE? |
tbottu | Piki: hmm... I think TDE is the Trinity Desktop Environment |
Piki | i don't think it should think... it should just know... that thinking part might scare people ;-) |
Strangelv | If it calls you Dave or Dr Forbin it's time to run away |
*Strangelv tries to stand up again. It may be half an hour or more before he returns whn he succeeds |
Piki | eh? |
Strangelv | Dave -- 2001 |
Strangelv | Dr Forbin -- can't remember teh name of the movie. Colussus was teh computer, and it decided to take over as world dictator |
Piki | ? |
*Strangelv "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that." -- HAL 9000 |
Piki | now you've completely lost me |
Strangelv | You need to watch 2001: A Space Oddessey sometime |
*Strangelv tries to stand up befoer he gives any more spoilers |
*samelian has joined #trinity-desktop |
TokRa | tbottu: |
*Strangelv waits for the response |
Strangelv | hmm |
TokRa | tbottu: what are you? |
Strangelv | "Has it locked up? |
Strangelv | bug 365 |
tbottu | Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=365 blo, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, GPG Key and Repositories not Accessible |
Strangelv | nope |
TokRa | bug 0 |
Strangelv | "might not be one of thoes in the database |
Strangelv | "I actualy looked at the list ot be sure. 365 is in bold with red text |
Strangelv | bug 1 |
tbottu | Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=1 nor, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Landscape PDF printed as portrait (and truncated) |
Strangelv | Wonder if there's any missinsg in sequence |
TokRa | http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/02/ubuntu-11-04-alpha-2-released/ |
*TokRa is afraid of the word "Aero" :D |
*Strangelv gives Amarok far fewer than four stars |
Strangelv | Unity looks like it would look good on a 3" telephone screen |
Strangelv | It might drive me insane on my 23" workstation screen |
*Strangelv 's workstation screen is not at tthe same level as the rest of his workstation. he needs to findan upgrade one of these months. |
TokRa | BTW, my netbook' http://u.inga.lv/m10.png and workstation http://u.inga.lv/m9.png |
Strangelv | I can't makes as useful a shot. When my left side task bar is deployed it covers my desktop icons |
*Strangelv tries |
TokRa | :) |
Strangelv | http://dimensionality.com/Strangelv_Workstation_20110204.png |
TokRa | Not bad at all, but fonts are a little oversized |
Strangelv | I sometimes viem my screen from a bit further away than most people |
Strangelv | Also, my eyes aren't as god as they used to be |
TokRa | Oh, sorry |
Strangelv | I remember how fun it was no read tiny small print when I was 12 years old... |
TokRa | :) |
Strangelv | "That's okay, they'll get plenty worse over the next few decades I'm sure |
*TokRa sometimes wears glasses too |
Strangelv | Mostly it's the distance I am from my screen |
*Strangelv first got bifocals when he was 21. He should have gotten them 5-10 years earlier. |
*TokRa sits about a half meter from screen |
Strangelv | :; is presentyl about one meter from his screen. |
TokRa | my vision is -1.75 to -2.00, according to the optometrist |
Strangelv | : don't remember what mine are and my most recent Rx is long misplaced. After getting bifocals I no longer needed new glasses every year |
TokRa | :) |
Strangelv | My current pair is moer than 10 years old -- unthinkable 20 years ago |
TokRa | May I ask about the meaning of "lv" in your nickname? |
Strangelv | In 1993 at a telefundraising job I got pegged as Dr Strangelove by a coworker for my less than optimistic geopolitical projections |
TokRa | i see |
Strangelv | When I first ended up regularly on IRC it was when there was still a limit to how many characters your name could be |
Strangelv | I've also interacted with too many real PhDs to claim being a 'Dr' when I just hawvea measely bachelor's |
*Strangelv has served on boards of directors and executive committeees with people with doctorates |
TokRa | sounds great |
Strangelv | So what do you get your hands into? |
TokRa | You mean, my occupation? |
Strangelv | That could work |
*Strangelv heads a tiny computer game company you've never heard of unless you were on teh Quake I gaming scene in 1997, in which case you may have merely forgotten it. |
*TokRa works as PHP / MySQL programmer at http://insbergs.lv for 5 years yet and holds her little own hosting provider business at http://valsts.lv |
*Strangelv claps |
TokRa | I study law too in order to get my bachelor degree |
Strangelv | Is than Santa or Det Moroz with the parachute? |
TokRa | earlier I tried to study french philology at the university, but I have realized the philology and the litterature give no passion to me |
*TokRa is hitech and it addicted |
TokRa | yes, indeed :) |
Strangelv | I had academic and research goals, but the fell by the side in 1997 to work on The Project That Will Make Us All Rich that blew up in our faces in January 1998 |
TokRa | the winter version of our coprorate site |
*Strangelv judges by teh alphabet that it's probably not Det Moroz |
TokRa | It is Дед Мород (Ded Moroz) |
TokRa | Ded (spelled like "dad") means old man / grandfather |
Strangelv | Aokay, I got the transliteration wrong... |
Strangelv | noted |
TokRa | Moroz means "the cold" |
*Strangelv may also be correctly remembering an incorrect transliteration |
Strangelv | "Father frost |
TokRa | The "Dead Moroz" spelling might be encountered too, by kidding :P |
TokRa | Indeed |
Strangelv | Whom I believe is supposed to have white gloves with three fingers on each hand, and underneath the red coat iz wearing pure while. also if that's Ded Moroz, where's the ice maiden? |
TokRa | mhm? |
Strangelv | I'sn't Ded Moroz supposed to have a female counterpart, teh ice maiden? |
TokRa | yes, she's called Снегурочка (Snegurochka) |
TokRa | According to the slavic (especially russian) folklore |
TokRa | She still has fingers on each hand :) |
TokRa | She still has 5 fingers on each hand :) |
Strangelv | "So what are you working on for TDE? |
*Strangelv in trying to wokr out what artwokr needs to be done when |
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Strangelv | Hello |
TokRa | Strangelv: I am not working now. Earlier, I hosted the Trinity's ISO images on my servers: http://trinity.lv |
TokRa | Then, after Timothy had got help from University of Idaho, I continued to host them on my own, just to keep the mirroring idea |
Strangelv | "Thank you |
*Strangelv , when given a choice of servers, usually picks one in a part of the world where it's in the wee hours of the morning, wherever in the world that may be |
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*TokRa offered the mirroring option about 2 years ago when I needed to get the actual distro with KDE3 and apt.pearsoncomputing.net was down due to the lightning |
*TokRa has contacted kb9vqf and offered help |
*TokRa acually is mentioned at http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/contributors/ |
TokRa | :P |
*Strangelv claps |
TokRa | My global policy is to give, not only to get |
TokRa | When I have helped myself, I usually start considering helping the others |
*Strangelv has spent a bit of time giving content to wikis; does that count? |
Strangelv | "Admittedly, I was involved with most of them coming into existence |
Strangelv | Then there's teh angle of, to quote from Babylone 5 |
Strangelv | ::: "Who would believe it! The great and powerful Londo Molari got his job becaues NO ONE ELSE WAS STUPID ENOUGH TO TAKE IT!!" |
TokRa | :) |
TokRa | And since I am not familiar with C and system level programming, I cannot unfortunately help the project in other ways. |
Strangelv | "Need/less to say I'm enormously grateful for Timothy Pearson being in charge of this project |
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*TokRa too |
Strangelv | "I've neer learned teh packaging system, so doing the packages would have required me to stop working on a great many things |
*Strangelv has prenty of expecie\rience in using it, even with broken packages; does that count? There were times when he was running Libranet and Demian Sid that Sid really _was_ unstable |
*TokRa guesses that any king of help counts |
TokRa | kind |
TokRa | :) |
Strangelv | "Most of what I know about C++ is out of date. There were a lot of changes with C++98 and I don't know any of those changes |
Strangelv | Mostly I'm here to crank out artwork |
Strangelv | At least as soon as I can find out _what_ to crank out... |
Strangelv | Trying to document these things here: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/bin/view/Artwork/Files |
*Strangelv : http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/bin/view/Artwork/ArtworkFiles |
Strangelv | the first file is a doppelgaenger of some sort. |
*Strangelv wonders if there's a awy to turn a page into a redirect in FOSWiki |
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MutantTurkey | o/ |
TokRa | Hail |
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toxic_devil | hi all |
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toxic_devil | samelian: hi |
MutantTurkey | hi toxic_devil |
toxic_devil | MutantTurkey: hi |
toxic_devil | http://paste.pocoo.org/show/332173/ |
MutantTurkey | cmake not configuring right? |
MutantTurkey | line 29: CMake Error at CMakeLists.txt:24 (tde_add_executable) line 30: Unknown CMake command "tde_add"executable" |
toxic_devil | MutantTurkey: yes |
MutantTurkey | strange. I do not know |
toxic_devil | MutantTurkey: It's very strange |
samelian | actually is not so strange |
toxic_devil | samelian: это можно как то решить? |
samelian | seems that you don't run cmake on root of kdelibs directory |
samelian | kdebase, sorry |
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toxic_devil | shit |
toxic_devil | это очень плохая идея |
toxic_devil | ((( |
samelian | check my ebuild to see how to do it correctly |
samelian | brb |
toxic_devil | что значит brb? |
TokRa | be right back - я скоро вернусь |
toxic_devil | TokRa: ;-P |
MutantTurkey | when using Cmake, I don't know how to set it to properly use QT3. $ cmake CMakeFiles.txt -D WITH_QT3:BOOL=ON doesn't seem to work |
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toxic_devil | MutantTurkey: how bad that you do not speak Russian, I understand what you write, but I find it difficult to write in English |
toxic_devil | MutantTurkey: hey |
toxic_devil | MutantTurkey: cmake -DWITH_QT3=ON |
toxic_devil | or TRUE |
MutantTurkey | toxic_devil: thank you |
toxic_devil | MutantTurkey: you use jabber? |
MutantTurkey | yes. crazycal00@gmail.com |
MutantTurkey | google talk works with jabber right? |
toxic_devil | oh |
samelian | yes, gtalk using a kind of jabber protocol |
MutantTurkey | thought so. |
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*TokRa just tested the new Ubuntu 11.04 Alpha2 with Unity DE |
TokRa | It's awful |
TokRa | Designed for mentally challenged users :( |
toxic_devil | чего??? |
kb9vqf | So Trinity looks more and more important with each Ubuntu release ;-) |
toxic_devil | о.о |
toxic_devil | TokRa: сноси ubuntu))) |
TokRa | kb9vqf: indeed |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: I don't know if its been discussed before. maybe register trinityde.org and setup an modern looking website |
MutantTurkey | our current website (while i do like simplicity) just reminds people that 3.5 is outdated |
kb9vqf | I wouldn't mind help with the website :) |
kb9vqf | Any takers? |
MutantTurkey | I will help you |
*TokRa has registered trinity.lv about a year ago |
kb9vqf | What would be nice is to |
MutantTurkey | we'd need a .org i think |
kb9vqf | fix up the graphical style (CSS?) |
kb9vqf | Something to get rid of the 1990s HTML look |
kb9vqf | While retaining the content |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: have you seen the archlinux website? very simple and still fast and modern |
kb9vqf | Looks noce to me |
kb9vqf | nice thatis |
MutantTurkey | yes I think so |
MutantTurkey | they've nicely intergrated their BBS, their bug tracker, User repos (all different backends and engines) into one website |
kb9vqf | If I give you access to the source HTML could you convert the website to a nicer layout? |
kb9vqf | There is a beta site floating around that you can use as a test bed |
kb9vqf | Domain names are $20/yr |
kb9vqf | I wouldn't mind registering trinityde.org |
kb9vqf | But we need a nicer looking website first :) |
*kb9vqf does not "do" CSS, etc. |
kb9vqf | So I would need some help there |
MutantTurkey | i don't go css either |
MutantTurkey | i do simple. i do fast. i do modern |
kb9vqf | OK |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: domains are 10 a year |
kb9vqf | Where? |
MutantTurkey | networksolutions.net |
kb9vqf | Thanks :) |
*kb9vqf was getting ripped off |
MutantTurkey | at least i recall. havent dont it in a while |
kb9vqf | Well, it looks like $10 may be an introductory price |
kb9vqf | Personally I haven't found long-term less than $20 or so |
MutantTurkey | oh okay |
kb9vqf | It's a nit, $10 isn't very much :) |
kb9vqf | Fixing the website is more important |
MutantTurkey | agreed. |
MutantTurkey | but $10 and a new website would be great |
kb9vqf | I don't like allowing FTP access....I wonder if rsync would work? |
kb9vqf | For you to get access to the beta hosting directory that is |
MutantTurkey | Dont give me ftp access |
kb9vqf | Don't worry, I won't :) |
*kb9vqf hates FTP |
MutantTurkey | just tar up the website and send it over |
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kb9vqf | OK, hang on |
MutantTurkey | since i've only been around here for a few days i wouldn't trust myself either :p |
kb9vqf | Obviously I can't send the Wiki and such, but I'll send over the main static page |
kb9vqf | pages, rather |
MutantTurkey | also, we need to either 1) get rid of the wiki or 2) make it useful. |
MutantTurkey | alot of the stuff there could be on the regular site |
kb9vqf | It's useful |
MutantTurkey | alright, well expanding it is definitely a good idea (in the future) |
kb9vqf | It's faster for me to work on the Wiki for most of the stuff there |
kb9vqf | Yes :) |
MutantTurkey | definitely |
kb9vqf | The main pages should be for slowly changing content |
kb9vqf | Like they are now |
MutantTurkey | well actally they don't need to be. |
MutantTurkey | if you are having news updates and such |
*kb9vqf doesn't have time for news updates :) |
MutantTurkey | :| |
kb9vqf | Of course if someone wants to do that for the project I don't mind |
MutantTurkey | News updates for releases and versions of programs, nothing else |
kb9vqf | Oh, OK |
kb9vqf | That's fine |
MutantTurkey | yeah |
MutantTurkey | just so people know that we are active |
kb9vqf | A daily blog would be of of the question ;-) |
MutantTurkey | agreed. |
kb9vqf | Also, the documentation pages are auto-generated, so they can't easily be changed |
kb9vqf | Actually a lot of the pages are auto-generated |
MutantTurkey | which ones? |
kb9vqf | docs, patches, mailing lists |
MutantTurkey | that is all fine |
MutantTurkey | they are all frames right? |
kb9vqf | The Wiki and bugtracker are standalone ATM |
kb9vqf | Yes |
MutantTurkey | okay thats easy then |
kb9vqf | RFEs are database driven |
MutantTurkey | do you fancy how this looks? |
kb9vqf | I'd like it clean and light :) |
kb9vqf | Beyond that you can try whatever you want |
MutantTurkey | http://cat-v.org/ |
MutantTurkey | clean light? |
MutantTurkey | also suckless.org |
*kb9vqf doesn't like orange |
kb9vqf | :) |
MutantTurkey | that is the simple werc web framework. |
MutantTurkey | the colors are all easy to change. |
kb9vqf | Hmm' |
kb9vqf | Maybe a bit hard to navigate? |
MutantTurkey | I am just trying to think of ideas |
kb9vqf | I like the Arch homepage better |
kb9vqf | Just with different colors maybe |
MutantTurkey | http://suckless.org is really easy to navigate |
MutantTurkey | archlinux is a good website. i will ask if they mind |
kb9vqf | Well, the only thing I would ask is if the links could be on the side of the pag |
kb9vqf | page |
kb9vqf | I have widescreen monitors and that way the links aren't taking up precious vertical spcae |
kb9vqf | space |
MutantTurkey | well we differ there |
*kb9vqf is not sure how many others have widescreen |
MutantTurkey | there was some discussion of why horizontal are better |
MutantTurkey | that is why suckless.org changed theirs. let me find the ML |
kb9vqf | For example though I'm currently browsing the API, I have the main navigation tabs on the left and the Doxygen tabs on the top |
kb9vqf | Nice and easy, and I can view most of the class functions at once |
MutantTurkey | if i can recall. horizontal navigation is better because it takes up less total space |
kb9vqf | Hmmm |
MutantTurkey | not to mention it scales easily for different size monitors |
kb9vqf | I don't suppose it is easily switched either |
MutantTurkey | not sure. |
kb9vqf | Between vertical and horizontal |
kb9vqf | Well, can you come up with a proof of concept to run by me and then the mailing list? |
kb9vqf | That might be best |
kb9vqf | Impress me :) |
MutantTurkey | I'll be honest, I haven't done anything in a very long time with web development |
MutantTurkey | still have a few tricks up my sleeve :P |
kb9vqf | What if we had the primary navigation on the top |
kb9vqf | And the secondary navigation on the side? |
kb9vqf | Most users won't need secondary navigation |
MutantTurkey | i think we need to just look at different websites we like. thats how i always do it |
kb9vqf | Arch is really quite nice |
kb9vqf | :) |
kb9vqf | I don't like the gray though |
MutantTurkey | again, alot of people use their layout |
MutantTurkey | http://www.xyne.archlinux.ca/ |
kb9vqf | I'd take the recent updates and change it to the list of sources/distros currently available |
MutantTurkey | yes |
kb9vqf | Also, the gray could be white |
kb9vqf | And the Trinity logo on the top left corner where the arch logo is |
MutantTurkey | well the thing is, this whole website is php driven i assume |
kb9vqf | Light blue mouse over for the top navigation |
kb9vqf | Trinity blue otherwise |
MutantTurkey | they are all feeds. |
kb9vqf | Hmm |
kb9vqf | I see |
MutantTurkey | Recent updates is an rss feed. News is an rss feed. Then there are minor links on the bottom right and major ones on the top |
kb9vqf | I have PHP and MySQL |
MutantTurkey | I know nothing of PHP to be honest. |
kb9vqf | I wouldn't be opposed to RSS ATM |
kb9vqf | Well, maybe I'll look into it |
MutantTurkey | you can checkout their website on the svn |
kb9vqf | Is the Arch site open source? |
MutantTurkey | lemmie link you |
kb9vqf | One step ahead of me I see :) |
kb9vqf | We also need some nice screenshots of TDE |
MutantTurkey | yes |
kb9vqf | On various platforms |
MutantTurkey | because i have no fucking idea what it looks like |
MutantTurkey | or how the interface is |
MutantTurkey | I am pretty much doing this all blindly until i get the packages running |
kb9vqf | http://apt.pearsoncomputing.net/cdimages/ |
MutantTurkey | thanks :) |
kb9vqf | Those are with Ubuntu |
*kb9vqf likes the Enterprise version |
MutantTurkey | also i'd suggest some like, suggested requirements for a PC. so people will know how it runs on theirs before installing |
samelian | MutantTurkey: if you need help for php, I know it pretty well |
MutantTurkey | samelian: wonderful |
toxic_devil | Yahooo!!! We paid to three))) |
MutantTurkey | http://projects.archlinux.org/archweb.git/ |
samelian | also, some jquery and css |
kb9vqf | OK, where should I send the html tarball? |
MutantTurkey | setup a new subdomain if its no trouble |
kb9vqf | OK |
MutantTurkey | like trinity-testing.pearsoncomputing.net |
*kb9vqf doesn't like it publically available |
MutantTurkey | oh. |
MutantTurkey | nevermind |
kb9vqf | I have trinity-beta already |
MutantTurkey | okay great |
kb9vqf | It's OK, I can make it available for a few minutes ;-) |
kb9vqf | While you download it |
MutantTurkey | okay just send me a link |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: enterprise vs desktop? |
kb9vqf | Hang on, still trying to exclude the dynamic content |
kb9vqf | Desktop version is the old Ubuntu kiddie interface |
MutantTurkey | dude, heres the thing. with your screen shots. GET damn thumbnails |
kb9vqf | Hehe |
MutantTurkey | so it loads faster |
kb9vqf | I know |
kb9vqf | The Website has been suffering badly |
MutantTurkey | due to what? |
kb9vqf | Lack of time mostly |
kb9vqf | What you see there was thrown up as fast as posssible |
MutantTurkey | yeah |
MutantTurkey | you gotta remember, the first impression about trinity is the website |
kb9vqf | Yup |
kb9vqf | That's why I welcome your guys' help :) |
MutantTurkey | indeed |
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kb9vqf | MutantTurkey, samelian: http://trinity-beta.pearsoncomputing.net/123.tar.gz |
kb9vqf | That should be all the non-dynamic content |
samelian | get it |
MutantTurkey | got it great. |
MutantTurkey | holy crap this is alot. |
kb9vqf | ? |
MutantTurkey | why is it going so slow |
MutantTurkey | :[ |
kb9vqf | The website is under peak traffic right now |
MutantTurkey | is that me downloading the iso? |
kb9vqf | You and others maybe |
MutantTurkey | sorry :/ |
kb9vqf | But it should be going to the mirrors :-/ |
kb9vqf | Dunno |
MutantTurkey | here is the trick, BitTorrent. |
kb9vqf | Hehe |
MutantTurkey | we make a torrent with the Iso's instead |
kb9vqf | What's your rate on the ISO? |
MutantTurkey | many distros do that. that way it doesn't bog the servers down |
MutantTurkey | 2.4N |
MutantTurkey | 2.4Mbs |
kb9vqf | That's the mirror |
kb9vqf | Not the main website |
MutantTurkey | oh alright |
MutantTurkey | well that is good |
kb9vqf | This is just traffic to the Wiki, etc. |
kb9vqf | We get a LOT of traffix |
MutantTurkey | that much traffic? |
kb9vqf | Seems like it |
kb9vqf | Enough to swamp my uplink with basic pages (i.e. no files) |
MutantTurkey | do you have a graph of it? or logs of visitors? i know apache may generate it |
kb9vqf | Nope, not ATM |
kb9vqf | I've looked in the logs manually before |
kb9vqf | Lots of visitors |
MutantTurkey | there is a simple apache way to do it. I have a poor memory |
kb9vqf | Yeah, I know |
kb9vqf | No time though right now :) |
MutantTurkey | you very busy? |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | TQt is eating much more time than I would like |
kb9vqf | But I hope that will stop soon |
MutantTurkey | ah, anything specific you are running into? |
kb9vqf | Qt4 %^&@^ |
kb9vqf | Mostly :) |
kb9vqf | Things like Qt4 eating events |
MutantTurkey | ah. |
kb9vqf | That took all day to trace |
kb9vqf | Turns out it does so on purpose |
kb9vqf | :-P |
*kb9vqf really hates some of the Qt4 "design" decisions |
MutantTurkey | ah |
MutantTurkey | yeah. i dislike qt4 alot |
kb9vqf | On the plus side, through TQt, kdesktop and kicker run quite well |
kb9vqf | Almost pixel perfect :) |
MutantTurkey | nice! |
kb9vqf | kwin too |
kb9vqf | Working on kate/kmultitabbarwidget now |
kb9vqf | There's a screenshot of the desktop floating around, Xu_R has the link |
kb9vqf | So, did you get the tarball yet? |
MutantTurkey | yes |
kb9vqf | OK |
kb9vqf | That will be missing one file I forgot about |
MutantTurkey | I am confused. what file do you first open? |
kb9vqf | main.html |
kb9vqf | Err, wait |
kb9vqf | Let me check |
MutantTurkey | because i see index_main.html but that doesn't have the sidebar fram |
kb9vqf | index.php |
kb9vqf | But I didn't include it accidentally |
kb9vqf | Hang on |
kb9vqf | http://trinity-beta.pearsoncomputing.net/index.php.txt |
kb9vqf | MutantTurkey: ^^ rename that to index.php |
kb9vqf | Also there is a missing folder named /files |
kb9vqf | And you need to place this in that folder: http://trinity-beta.pearsoncomputing.net/files/index.html |
kb9vqf | http://trinity-beta.pearsoncomputing.net/links_main.php.txt |
kb9vqf | Rename to links_main.php |
kb9vqf | That should be it |
*kb9vqf excluded all PHP files |
kb9vqf | Did you get the files OK? |
MutantTurkey | okay sorry |
MutantTurkey | had to watch my little sister for a minute |
kb9vqf | That's fine |
kb9vqf | I'm the one that forgot to send three files ;-) |
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Piki | hi |
kb9vqf | MutantTurkey: Have at it and when you have something you like, send me a tarball and I'll upload it to the trinity-beta site |
MutantTurkey | Hey Piki |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: okay, why are we using Php? |
kb9vqf | Simple dynamic content |
MutantTurkey | right |
*kb9vqf uses PHP extensively in most of his websites |
MutantTurkey | alright |
MutantTurkey | and that goes in the main directory |
kb9vqf | Yes, both of the php files go in the main directory |
kb9vqf | index.php is the main page |
MutantTurkey | guess i can't use my regular shttpd server :/ |
MutantTurkey | I'll have to setup lighttpd i guess |
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kb9vqf | The PHP is used to be able to specify a default frame |
MutantTurkey | yes I got it |
kb9vqf | OK :) |
MutantTurkey | just gotta setup a php-able server |
kb9vqf | Sure |
kb9vqf | Poke me if you have any questions or if you are missing any files :) |
MutantTurkey | right |
kb9vqf | Thanks! |
MutantTurkey | (I'm still attempting to package at the same time haha |
MutantTurkey | yep it's all good :p |
MutantTurkey | I have nothing to do all day, might as well get something accompished |
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MutantTurkey | this image has still not loaded in QEMU D: |
Piki | qemu's slow |
MutantTurkey | i know, on a slow setup also |
<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="kb9vqf" time="2011-02-04T18:41:59Z">+o tbottu </mode> |
Piki | virtualbox seems to work well, pretty close to the speed of my real hardware, haven't tried vmware or anything else |
MutantTurkey | i haven't tried vbox |
Piki | MutantTurkey: it works great, unfortunately the open source edition doesn't to USB, but the non-OSE is free for personal use. if it's not in your distro's repos, though, you'll need to have the kernel source present for vbox to compile the kernel module |
MutantTurkey | D: |
MutantTurkey | f that. |
MutantTurkey | qemu works for now |
Piki | you don't need to compile the kernel, just as long as you install the kernel source package from your distro |
Piki | or the kernel headers should work as well |
MutantTurkey | i have a custom kernel with static modules D: so |
MutantTurkey | i'd have to recompile |
Piki | you don't ave the headers or the source? |
MutantTurkey | I do |
MutantTurkey | I just dont have time to recompile |
Piki | you don't have to, as long as you kept them |
MutantTurkey | oh really? |
Piki | the vbox installer just needs them to compile the module |
MutantTurkey | ah excellent |
Piki | it needs them so it can compile the module for your particular setup |
Piki | i've never successfully compiled a kernel |
MutantTurkey | why not? |
Piki | but i've installed vbox |
Piki | MutantTurkey: something always seems to go wrong somewhere. even if it compiles, it won't boot, even if i run mkinitrd to get my hard disk drivers |
MutantTurkey | ah :p |
Piki | i do have it on my todo list for whenever i have the time to actually look into it |
MutantTurkey | okay now i get the good old 403 forbidden crap. |
MutantTurkey | >:| dumb php backend fcgi being dumb damnit. |
TokRa | 403 - check the file permissions |
MutantTurkey | nevermind fixed it up. |
MutantTurkey | It's actually an issue with my lighttpd config |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: i just got rid of the pointless php code since i couldn't get it working, if we need something we can always add it later |
kb9vqf | I suppose |
kb9vqf | Make it static and I'll throw the PHP back in |
kb9vqf | just keep the php file extension if you can :) |
MutantTurkey | :o |
MutantTurkey | sawwy i renamed it all |
kb9vqf | Oh OK |
MutantTurkey | lemmie just give this a go, all we really need it a simple workup nothing real. |
kb9vqf | Well I'll rename it back with sed when I get it ;-) |
kb9vqf | Sure |
*kb9vqf understands |
MutantTurkey | what about how xfce website looks? http://www.xfce.org/ |
*kb9vqf likes the Arch one better |
MutantTurkey | I think then we should just scratch the current website instead of trying to freshen it up. |
MutantTurkey | All the text we will be able to basically copy and paste, maybe reorginise or rewrite some stuff. |
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kb9vqf | Sure |
kb9vqf | For now just copy/paste it |
kb9vqf | The text that is |
MutantTurkey | Alright. some stuff i think is a obvious change. such as "Welcome to Pearson Computing's fork of KDE3.5, codename Trinity!" to "Trinity Desktop Environment" |
kb9vqf | Well yes ;-) |
kb9vqf | We need to put the KDE3.5 fork info somewhere |
kb9vqf | Maybe under "History"? |
MutantTurkey | yes. |
MutantTurkey | or even in the first paragraph |
kb9vqf | Sure |
MutantTurkey | but we need to be clear we are NOT KDE. so seperating them is a good idea. |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | Hence the fork mention up front |
MutantTurkey | Trinity Desktop Environment: Trinity DE keeps the KDE3.5 computing style alive! It has polished off the rough edges that were present as of KDE 3.5.10. Along the way, new useful features will be added to keep the environment up-to-date. |
MutantTurkey | that would be better |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | Although |
kb9vqf | As the environment matures, new useful features will be added to keep the environment up-to-date. |
kb9vqf | might be better |
MutantTurkey | yes |
kb9vqf | From a grammatical perspective |
kb9vqf | As the environment matures, new useful features will be added to keep it up-to-date. |
kb9vqf | :) |
MutantTurkey | we want to say that 1) we have made huge strides already 2) we are working further to make it even better |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | Probably the release notes should be more prominent |
kb9vqf | http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/bin/view/Documentation/Releases_3_5_12 |
MutantTurkey | defintitely |
MutantTurkey | even that could be the front page |
MutantTurkey | NEW AND IMPROVED! Trinity 3.5.12 is out! HERE ARE THE GREAT FEATURES: blah blah blah |
MutantTurkey | like kde.org and xfce.org are showing you the latest and greatest! |
kb9vqf | A section of it anyway |
kb9vqf | The first news article? |
MutantTurkey | yeah |
kb9vqf | Works for me |
MutantTurkey | or something along the lines |
kb9vqf | How will the news be managed? |
kb9vqf | Database? |
kb9vqf | RSS? |
MutantTurkey | hmmm |
kb9vqf | Flat text? |
MutantTurkey | rss |
MutantTurkey | but not yet |
kb9vqf | OK |
MutantTurkey | I prefer flat file everything tbh |
kb9vqf | Me too |
MutantTurkey | I am am real minimalist |
kb9vqf | Well, up to a point |
kb9vqf | Me that is |
kb9vqf | Over time I may want to throw fast changing stuff into a database |
kb9vqf | But I can handle that here |
MutantTurkey | well things that should be in a DB or RSS are like package releases |
MutantTurkey | which are often |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | Perfect example |
MutantTurkey | well archlinux even has the setup like that already |
kb9vqf | Makes it easy then :) |
MutantTurkey | nice, i got tqtinterface-svn packaged |
MutantTurkey | http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=46091 |
samelian | actually is not very good ideea |
samelian | to make pure static html files |
samelian | you must have something like header.php, footer.php |
samelian | then just include it in index.php, about.php, etc |
kb9vqf | MutantTurkey: samelian is correct ^^^ |
kb9vqf | ;-) |
kb9vqf | I would get PHP running if I were you |
kb9vqf | I can help with that if you need |
MutantTurkey | okay sorry I got distracted packaging |
kb9vqf | That's fine |
MutantTurkey | 2 packages down now. |
kb9vqf | Great! :-) |
kb9vqf | Maybe 3.5.13 will have Ark support |
MutantTurkey | Ark? |
samelian | pardus, right? |
kb9vqf | Arch, sorry ;- |
MutantTurkey | why wouldn't it? I mean at this rate it could |
MutantTurkey | will 3.5.13 be using Cmake? i mean svn based packages are quite different than tarball ones but it shouldn't be to hard to convert them all. |
kb9vqf | Right :) |
kb9vqf | If samelian finishes it then yes |
*kb9vqf prods samelian ;-) |
samelian | depends what meaning Trinity for you :) |
samelian | at this moment, kdelibs and kdebase are usable |
MutantTurkey | what else is needed? |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: so finally trying to get php working, I've extracted your dir in my /var/www/ but the permissions are messed up. who should own them? |
kb9vqf | www-data |
kb9vqf | Well, under Ubuntu anyway |
kb9vqf | What distro did you set up for Apache? |
MutantTurkey | apache? I use lighttpd |
kb9vqf | Oh, OK |
MutantTurkey | andi only run archlinux :p |
kb9vqf | I may not be much help then |
kb9vqf | Usually nobody or www-data owns the web documents |
MutantTurkey | have debian on server box that is currently unusuable |
kb9vqf | Just don't make it root and you should be OK ;-) |
MutantTurkey | i get the 403 forbidden error on any file i try and access |
kb9vqf | Are the php files executable? |
kb9vqf | They need to be +x |
TokRa | there is no need to |
MutantTurkey | ah |
kb9vqf | ? |
MutantTurkey | yeah you've chmod +x everything actually |
kb9vqf | Hmmm |
MutantTurkey | http://96.245.17.6/ |
MutantTurkey | hopefully that works. |
TokRa | chmod -R a+rx /var/www |
MutantTurkey | TokRa: thanka! |
kb9vqf | Looks like the PHP interpreter is not running |
MutantTurkey | thanks! |
TokRa | php files are offered to downoad, they are not being handled |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: yeah hold up i have to do that now. |
MutantTurkey | I first had to sort out the permissions error |
MutantTurkey | now i can setup fcgi |
TokRa | the web server is not set up to handle php file properly |
kb9vqf | OK |
MutantTurkey | TokRa: yes. I am going to do that now |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: one reason i love arch, they have wiki article for everything https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fastcgi_and_lighttpd |
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Piki | kb9vqf: does tbottu use tcl scripts for explaining stuff? |
kb9vqf | Not sure |
kb9vqf | I know it supports the infobot protocol |
kb9vqf | But I think it has an internal implementation of some sort |
Piki | if it does, those might be useful for the ark bot |
kb9vqf | Piki: Eggdrop might work for you |
Piki | kb9vqf: it's already working, it just doesn't do much without external scripts |
MutantTurkey | excellent! |
MutantTurkey | http://192.168.1.4/index.php |
TokRa | nice :) |
kb9vqf | Looks familiar |
kb9vqf | :) |
MutantTurkey | sorry. that was local |
MutantTurkey | http://96.245.17.6/ should work now. |
Xu_R_ | nice MutantTurkey :) |
TokRa | Please, add more default filenames to DocumentRoot |
MutantTurkey | good! |
Piki | MutantTurkey: lol, i was wandering about that, 192.168.*.* is generally reserved for local networks |
*Xu_R_ is eating homemade ramen :D |
MutantTurkey | yes. a bit tired aha |
MutantTurkey | Xu_R_: delicious! i love ramen. |
Xu_R_ | whoo! :D |
Piki | ramen, the cheap yet tasty food ;-) |
Xu_R_ | Piki: mine is NOT cheap. I made it myself. |
MutantTurkey | Piki: part of my main diet |
MutantTurkey | that, canned chili and toast and such |
Xu_R_ | kb9vqf: what's with the tbottu? |
Xu_R_ | bot? |
kb9vqf | Yup |
Xu_R_ | what is it running? |
kb9vqf | tbottu, what is tbottu |
tbottu | kb9vqf: I have heard that tbottu is your benevolent host and logging droid, capable of giving helpful misinformation, bug status messages, and translations via Yahoo |
kb9vqf | Xu_R: mozbot |
Xu_R_ | LOL |
Xu_R_ | o. |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: another idea, is to keep the webpage in an svn repo so you can commit changes. |
Xu_R_ | I'm using supybot |
MutantTurkey | supybot is great |
Xu_R_ | I can't get the meetbot to save files, so it's a pain in the ass when I can't #endmeeting |
Piki | ramen, pizza, spaghetti, and mac'n'cheese, wish i had some of my grandmother's recipes though, she wasn't a gourmet chef, but she definitely was much better! |
Xu_R_ | MutantTurkey: ya :D |
Piki | wow, i need practice my typing speed lol |
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Xu_R_ | hehe, there's my bot there :D |
MutantTurkey | Piki: meh. i gave up on that shit a long time ago |
Xu_R_ | of course, I have no idea if it works |
MutantTurkey | I never had good typing skills and i don't even type correctly :o |
Xu_R_ | !ping MutantTurkey |
[lindaemon] | pong |
Xu_R_ | yup, it works. :P |
MutantTurkey | :D |
Xu_R_ | yes, MutantTurkey, I shall play ping pong on your head XD |
MutantTurkey | like my right hand always rests over by the l key and i use it a ton for backspace and such |
Piki | MutantTurkey: well as a computer geek, i'll be expected to type fast when i get a job ;-) |
MutantTurkey | i use my left hand to write evertything as far as the yhu keys |
MutantTurkey | i could try and relearn how to type but meh |
Piki | i do have a job, but hoping to get a better one soon |
Xu_R_ | !part #trinity-desktop EWWWW, tbottu is here |
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kb9vqf | tbottu, what is lindaemon |
tbottu | kb9vqf: well, duh. lindaemon is a nasty competitor bot, rarely heard since I banished it from the solar system |
Xu_R_ | LOL |
Piki | ;-) |
Xu_R_ | I see you defined my bot :P |
MutantTurkey | http://96.245.17.6/ some simple changes so far |
Xu_R_ | tbottu, what is kb9vqf |
tbottu | Xu_R_: Sorry, I've no idea what 'kb9vqf' is. |
Xu_R_ | kb9vqf: ^ nice to know you're alien XD |
kb9vqf | And I like to keep it that way for now :) |
Xu_R_ | lol |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: yeah you should get a easier to remember nick :p |
Xu_R_ | kb9vqf: samelian: I'm moving stuff off of build.opensuse.org to build.lincomlinux.org, because I'm having major trouble with their current server state. So if you want to see Trinity RPM stuff there, you'll have to register at build.lincomlinux.org (which is disabled atm, I'm fixing it) |
kb9vqf | Ah, well, I dunno |
samelian | Xu_R_: very well |
kb9vqf | Heh |
kb9vqf | Do I sense another QuickBuild? |
kb9vqf | ;-) |
Xu_R_ | kb9vqf: It runs the openSUSE Build Service. Seriously, it can build debs too and create repositories for them as well :P |
Xu_R_ | kb9vqf: and maybe. :P |
kb9vqf | I know, but it's a local instance because the main instance drove you nuts once too often |
kb9vqf | That's how it's the same ;-) |
Xu_R_ | kb9vqf: ... OH LOL yes yes I see :) |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: one of your problems is that the page is just really cluttured. |
kb9vqf | Yup |
MutantTurkey | I am trying to cutdown on the amount of text |
kb9vqf | Lots of info |
kb9vqf | Should be moved to other pages IMO |
MutantTurkey | which should go on sub pages |
MutantTurkey | yes |
MutantTurkey | http://96.245.17.6/ |
MutantTurkey | cleaning it up a bit |
Xu_R_ | MutantTurkey: Maybe switch to a CMS like Drupal? :D |
MutantTurkey | Xu_R_: well we are talking about that |
MutantTurkey | so any ideas are welcome |
MutantTurkey | right now i am just trying to clean things up in the mean time. |
Piki | yes, drupal works great, a bit of getting used to, but easy and makes a lot of sense once you do |
MutantTurkey | Piki: how fast/slow/bloated/easy to setup is it? |
Xu_R_ | MutantTurkey: psh, you always know i'm here to help. or annoy kb9vqf/samelian xD |
MutantTurkey | xD |
Xu_R_ | I was the one who recommended Piki use Drupal |
Xu_R_ | I use it myself - very customizable |
Piki | MutantTurkey: fast, not bloated, lots of modules and themes on their site, and the administration page organizes and explains all the setup/admin stuff |
MutantTurkey | we'd want something pretty minimal I'd assume |
Piki | MutantTurkey: check Xu_R_'s lincomlinux site and the arklinux.org site i'm webmastering |
Xu_R_ | MutantTurkey: then keep to the minimal with drupal :) |
MutantTurkey | one thing great about the current website is that it works with, mobile phones, old computers, tiny screens, cli browsers. etc. |
Xu_R_ | MutantTurkey: there's a module for that xD |
MutantTurkey | Ark linux still exists? |
Xu_R_ | well, i'm not here to advertise with drupal for now |
Piki | MutantTurkey: yes, it's been in existance |
Xu_R_ | I'm here to grapple with TQtinterface |
MutantTurkey | Piki: are they tryng to relaunch/ |
Piki | we've been really struggling with kde4 |
Piki | MutantTurkey: no, they are trying to release |
Piki | they've been launched |
MutantTurkey | they still havent released? |
Xu_R_ | samelina: since I'm still migrating, we can still work on build.o.o for the time being |
Xu_R_ | LOL oops, samelina. s/samelina/samelian |
samelian | hehe |
Piki | yes, our head dev wanted to replace HAL, but couldn't force KDE4 to use it, and he's working on a new init system, quite fast and stable, still needs a couple things though, like support for a boot splash |
MutantTurkey | Piki: why not get them to use trinity? |
Xu_R_ | https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?package=tqtinterface&project=home%3Abravoall1552%3Atrinity - the x86_64 builds of SUSE 11.3 and Factory are failing strangely. |
samelian | using drupal for such simple website is a big everhead |
MutantTurkey | that would sure help us out a hella lot |
samelian | overhead |
MutantTurkey | samelian: yeah? |
Piki | MutantTurkey: we are, we'll be releasing both KDE4 and TDE |
MutantTurkey | nice. |
MutantTurkey | excellent |
Piki | MutantTurkey: and that's not the only problem, we are switching to RPM5, and need to find a decent Qt frontend to zypper, because zypper was the easiest to port to RPM5 |
MutantTurkey | PackageKit? |
Piki | MutantTurkey: any unnecessary dependencies? i seem to remember something about devkit or something that our head dev didn't want to include |
MutantTurkey | not sure |
MutantTurkey | check it out |
MutantTurkey | haven't used it myself |
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MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: what about just using MediaWiki and run a wiki for a website? quite a few projects do that |
kb9vqf | I always associate those with poorly designed/lazy projects |
MutantTurkey | okay |
MutantTurkey | Just throwing it out there |
kb9vqf | Seems I can never find what I want if I see a Wiki first thing |
kb9vqf | Just my experience |
MutantTurkey | agreed. |
samelian | my problem with actual wiki is that i cannot find anything :) |
Xu_R_ | lol samelian |
MutantTurkey | unless it is Archlinux wiki, which is super amazing xD |
Piki | kb9vqf: because people don't know how to organize the site, though i still like mediawiki as the wiki |
kb9vqf | Yeah, I've heard that quite a bit now |
kb9vqf | Can't do anything about it unless there is an automated conversion somewhere, OR someone wants to waste lots of time moving pages over |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: i have alot of time |
kb9vqf | Website first ;-) |
kb9vqf | Then Wiki |
samelian | MutantTurkey: haha |
MutantTurkey | first of all, we need to deceide about the website! |
samelian | so, we must to find something to do for you :) |
Piki | hmm, packagekit lists polkit as a dep, which lists no contributors or commiters, and low activity |
Piki | on their GSoC page |
MutantTurkey | what? polkit is fine |
Xu_R_ | Piki: psh. polkit is fine |
samelian | MutantTurkey: if you want, I can mentoring you how to port trinity to cmake |
Xu_R_ | and devicekit is also depreciated |
MutantTurkey | Xu_R_: what are we using no? |
Xu_R_ | into udev-extras, udisks, and upower, now part of the base linux system |
MutantTurkey | i have honestly lost track since the whole hal changeover |
MutantTurkey | Xu_R_: right. |
Xu_R_ | MutantTurkey: we're still stuck with hal |
MutantTurkey | you are? |
MutantTurkey | i don't even have it installed. |
Xu_R_ | but we're migrating straight to udev-extras, udisks, adn upower |
Xu_R_ | MutantTurkey: Really? that's strange. |
MutantTurkey | who is we? Archlinux has already migrated |
Xu_R_ | I meant Trinity. |
kb9vqf | You have KDE3 on udev?? |
Piki | polkit seems to be a hardware abstractor or something, which we plan to replace anyway |
MutantTurkey | oh sorry |
Xu_R_ | Trinity still uses HAL, MutantTurkey... |
MutantTurkey | i was so confused. |
MutantTurkey | thought i was in my ubuntu channel xD |
Xu_R_ | Piki: no. polkit isn't such a thing if you don't want it to be one. |
*Xu_R_ facepalms MutantTurkey |
Piki | Xu_R_: that's what it seems to be describing on the page |
Piki | that and networking |
Piki | which we already have |
Xu_R_ | Piki: Only if you make it use it! |
Xu_R_ | MutantTurkey: I just figured out all that hal depreciation stuff like a week ago, don't worry :P |
Piki | Xu_R_: then what's the point of requiring polkit in packagekit? |
Xu_R_ | To install packages. |
Piki | but that's zypper/rpm |
Xu_R_ | Polkit is like a fine access-control su and sudo |
Piki | we can just use ark's PAM modules |
Piki | which allows the default user to install software anyway |
Piki | anf if the user doesn't want that, kdesu and kdesudo |
MutantTurkey | Xu_R_: hahah |
samelian | Piki: this is not a potential security hole? |
Piki | samelian: no, not like the user can run a root konsole to auto-execute a command or soemthingl like that, there's a description on the wiki |
Piki | http://wiki.arklinux.org/Ark_Security_System |
Piki | i've been using ark since february 2007, never had any kind of viruses, spyware, hack attempts, or other security problems |
Piki | besides, i don't really like the sudo way of doing things, all i need to do is type my own normal user password, and destroy the system, which the PAM modules don't allow |
Piki | and i can assign certain things on a per-user basis, so nobody sees my root password to get unlimited rights, they just get what they absolutely need |
samelian | do not forget about privilege escalation exploits |
Piki | i thought the root escalation thing was fixed? |
Xu_R_ | Piki: the way Polkit does it, however, is when the application calls polkit to auth (via dbus), it runs the application as a polkit daemon user, which tunnels the application to root via a securely locked down env, if I recall correctly (which rarely happens) |
Piki | Xu_R_: if you can sanitize dbus to get bero to accept it |
Xu_R_ | Piki: oh, there's another one right now that is still being investingated. Nice discussion on lfs-dev about it. |
Xu_R_ | *investigated |
Xu_R_ | I can't spell for my life today |
Xu_R_ | no wonder my english teacher stared at me .-. |
Piki | besides, we already have our PAM modules |
Piki | which do the same thing, without dbus |
Piki | Xu_R_: well our PAM modules can work regardless of if the exploit is fixed, and if it does get fixed, well all the better because it doesn't compromise security either way |
Piki | and if the exploit is there, there's nothing our PAM modules can do about it, because it isn't the kernel or bash or... |
MutantTurkey | okay |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: http://96.245.17.6/ I've sort of orginized it with headers. |
Piki | what Ark needs is a GUI tool for zypper that doesn't drag in any extra deps or luggage we don't need, and we can just use PAM |
MutantTurkey | Piki: then write one yourself |
MutantTurkey | I mean it is Ark linux, it should have and Ark frontend :p |
MutantTurkey | what about Shaman? |
MutantTurkey | oh wiat. |
MutantTurkey | thats for pacman not zypper :/ |
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Piki | MutantTurkey: yet i doubt most distros have their own |
MutantTurkey | dude package kit. i am telling you |
MutantTurkey | http://PackageKit.org/pk-users.html |
Piki | and i don't know how to code, our only coder is always overwhelmed by work, and has to fix our dependency mess |
MutantTurkey | Moblin, fedora, foresight, kubuntu opensuse all use it |
Piki | MutantTurkey: we don't want polkit |
MutantTurkey | Piki: YOU ONLY HAVE ONE DEVELOPER? |
Piki | and we don't like fedora, ubuntu, and we only use opensuse's zypper because it's the only option |
MutantTurkey | why is that (jw)? |
Piki | MutantTurkey: well, nobody wants to be seen as a nooby, so they all stay away from us |
Piki | MutantTurkey: they just don't work |
Piki | on any of our systems |
MutantTurkey | pacman ;D |
MutantTurkey | pacman? |
MutantTurkey | what is the goal of Ark Linux? |
Piki | MutantTurkey: all of our packages are rpm, we don't have the man power to care to switch, and we want to release |
MutantTurkey | oh |
MutantTurkey | how large is the total team? |
Piki | MutantTurkey: be easy enough for the unexperienced, flexible for long-time users, and remain "technically sane", which means excluding polkit and ditching udev/hal asap |
MutantTurkey | Piki: no reason to ditch udev. |
MutantTurkey | just hal |
Piki | MutantTurkey: one packager/dev, two webmasters , three site admins (including the two webmaster), and a site moderator |
Piki | MutantTurkey: udev seems to operate a bit weird on most of our systems |
MutantTurkey | so basically this whole project is driven by one man? |
Piki | MutantTurkey: yes. we used to have more, but real life took over |
MutantTurkey | basically :/ |
MutantTurkey | what is Ark based on top of? |
samelian | MutantTurkey: do not wonder to much, trinity itself have only two developers :) |
Piki | and i'm about to join in on packaging once i get my system setup for TDE |
Piki | MutantTurkey: based on top of? |
MutantTurkey | samelian: :) I'll be helping about soon probably, if kb9vqf |
MutantTurkey | if kb9vqf lets me ;) |
MutantTurkey | Piki: nevermind |
kb9vqf | Of course I'll let you ;-) |
samelian | MutantTurkey: you have C++ background? |
MutantTurkey | samelian: :o no. |
samelian | i see |
MutantTurkey | I am a pure C coder. though I am sure i can learn |
MutantTurkey | i have absolutely no background in anything, no formal training, no job in real life, nothing. |
samelian | if you don't want to bother with Qt/C++, you can help us with cmake |
MutantTurkey | I can do both. |
MutantTurkey | first i would like to get you modernized with a website and packages for archlinux. |
Xu_R_ | I'm learning C++ right now :D (of course, knowledge = limited right now) |
MutantTurkey | i also would definitely help out with cmake |
Xu_R_ | I think I'll stick with packaging right now, and then maybe take a look at the code :) |
MutantTurkey | i though C++ is not so different than C? I mean syntax may be different and its all object oriented but anything else? |
samelian | it's enough, I think |
samelian | actually the problem is learning qt, not c++ itself |
kb9vqf | Website/CMake can be done while you learn Qt/C++ |
kb9vqf | So you are still of use to the project for sure |
*kb9vqf is not about to turn down extra help ;-) |
MutantTurkey | i also hear Qt is quite nice to develop on |
MutantTurkey | at least much saner than GTK. |
kb9vqf | Oh yes! |
Piki | if anybody programming in Qt wants to write a graphical frontend to zypper that is just the interface and just passes everything to zypper, using easy-to-understand code and a simple and easy interface, feel free to jump on our mailing list/forum and live support ;-) |
MutantTurkey | I have done quite a bit with GTK and such so I am familiar with learning APIS and shit |
Piki | anyway, must go to work |
MutantTurkey | Piki: i could do that maybe |
MutantTurkey | Piki: as LONG as zypper has a library interface |
MutantTurkey | writing frontend wrappers sucks ass. |
samelian | however, trinity have a lot areas to learn |
kb9vqf | Just be careful not to spread yourself too thin |
Piki | MutantTurkey: it does have a library (libzypp), and a command line util (zypper) to use it |
*kb9vqf knows from experience |
samelian | for example, kcm (kcontrol) modules, kioslaves, etc |
MutantTurkey | Piki: nice |
MutantTurkey | we could maybe switch shaman to use zypper |
MutantTurkey | Shaman is a pacman for KDE enviroment frontend |
samelian | kb9vqf: seems that glib interface for upower is not so nice as I expected |
Piki | MutantTurkey: we don't want it to have any weird deps on hal/udev/hotplug/etc, just make calls to zypper or use it's lib, which already handles grabbing the stuff from the repos and passing it to rpm |
Piki | anyways, must go, starting to run late |
MutantTurkey | Piki: of course not. |
samelian | I started to check if upower interface can be easy implemented using qt3 dbus |
Piki | bye |
MutantTurkey | night |
kb9vqf | samelian: upower/udev is practically unusable as-is |
kb9vqf | Hence the need for libkpower and friends |
*kb9vqf had guessed that by looking at the API a while back |
samelian | for sure |
kb9vqf | Linux is not helping us here |
samelian | I will try to implement upower low level interface in pure qt |
kb9vqf | Sure, go ahead |
kb9vqf | Just don't use Qt4 specific things |
kb9vqf | Please |
samelian | not matter, actually |
kb9vqf | Make it work in Qt3 |
kb9vqf | Then TQt can take over |
samelian | I using d-pointer |
samelian | to hide implementation details |
samelian | the API will be the same for qt3/qt4 |
kb9vqf | OK, but if the backend is Qt4 based then I can't switch from HAL |
kb9vqf | We need something working 100% under Qt3 |
kb9vqf | Before a full switch from HAL can be made |
samelian | ATM, i implement qt3, because I want to use with actualy trinity |
kb9vqf | TQt for Qt4 is too far off |
kb9vqf | OK |
kb9vqf | Good :) |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: okay cleaned it up bit. what think you? http://96.245.17.6/ |
kb9vqf | It's a bit better |
samelian | try to use an sans-serif font |
kb9vqf | Organizationally that is |
MutantTurkey | that was the focus |
kb9vqf | It definitely needs style help :) |
samelian | serif fonts are designed for printing, not for screens |
MutantTurkey | samelian: i think we use default fonts? |
*kb9vqf is trying to imagine it in the archlinux scheme |
MutantTurkey | :p |
kb9vqf | Why don't you get the archlinux-like style integrated? |
kb9vqf | That way we can see what the end result will be |
kb9vqf | Just a thought |
MutantTurkey | hmmm? that is insane i think. |
MutantTurkey | I will give it a shot |
kb9vqf | Insane? |
MutantTurkey | let me try. |
kb9vqf | OK |
samelian | if you need help for css, i have some experience with it |
kb9vqf | :) |
MutantTurkey | samelian: great thanks |
kb9vqf | And I can help with the graphics |
kb9vqf | To some extent |
MutantTurkey | graphics? |
kb9vqf | To replace the archlinux logo and such |
MutantTurkey | right. that is easy enoguh |
MutantTurkey | okay, so the archlinux website is written with python. |
kb9vqf | Backend engine is ??? |
kb9vqf | RSS? |
MutantTurkey | python. |
MutantTurkey | yes |
MutantTurkey | python python python |
*MutantTurkey has left #trinity-desktop |
samelian | probably django |
samelian | no matter very much |
*MutantTurkey has joined #trinity-desktop |
MutantTurkey | sorry did i quit? dumb pidgin |
kb9vqf | I was actually wondering about the content database |
kb9vqf | SQL, flat file, or something else |
MutantTurkey | django? |
samelian | django is a framework written in python |
MutantTurkey | sorry |
samelian | like ruby on rails, for example |
MutantTurkey | yeah |
MutantTurkey | yeah this is quite confusing i cannot figure it out. |
MutantTurkey | archlinux has it available on their website's git tree |
kb9vqf | I'm guessing we just need to take its database and tweak it |
kb9vqf | Then change the style elements some |
samelian | i can do it in few hours, but i'm too lazy :) |
MutantTurkey | :p |
MutantTurkey | I think i am going to play pond hockey soon |
MutantTurkey | all tentative though, hopefully the ice is good |
samelian | i'm bored too much by web development in my real job |
MutantTurkey | haha |
kb9vqf | And upower is too exciting? |
kb9vqf | ;-) |
samelian | hehe, for sure |
samelian | brb, rebooting access point |
*samelian has joined #trinity-desktop |
*Xu_R_ is tired... |
MutantTurkey | word |
Xu_R_ | it's only 1650 too... I hate waking up at 545 every weekday lol |
samelian | wow |
samelian | there is 23:50 :) |
MutantTurkey | Xu_R_: EST also? nice. |
Xu_R_ | samelian: CET, I'm guessing? :) |
Xu_R_ | MutantTurkey: Yup, DC |
samelian | EET, i think |
MutantTurkey | Xu_R_: philly up here. |
samelian | GMT+2 |
Xu_R_ | samelian: oh yea, that's EET. |
Xu_R_ | MutantTurkey: oh, well, you have the prowess of living near the crazy Piki (because he says he lives up in philly, no idea how true that is xD) |
samelian | what is philly? |
Xu_R_ | samelian: Philadelphia, PA, USA |
samelian | aa, thx :) |
MutantTurkey | Xu_R_: :o uh oh. well. |
Xu_R_ | lol MutantTurkey |
MutantTurkey | Trinity Drinking party! |
samelian | haha |
samelian | I drink already few beers |
samelian | and same time I try to understand dbus-qt3 :)) |
Xu_R_ | LOL |
MutantTurkey | hahah |
MutantTurkey | relevent text: http://xkcd.com/323/ |
samelian | yeah :) |
samelian | i think I need few more beers |
samelian | wtf, my klipper crashing when I select some text in qt assistant |
*field_it has joined #trinity-desktop |
MutantTurkey | hmmm |
samelian | kb9vqf: you notice that kde4 migrating to git? |
kb9vqf | Yes |
*kb9vqf doesn't want to learn another VCS |
kb9vqf | I'm sick of change for the sake of change |
samelian | hehe |
kb9vqf | My limited experience with git is not, shall we say, positive |
kb9vqf | :-P |
kb9vqf | I'll probably end up cloning the SVN tree and hosting it here |
kb9vqf | Not something i was looking forward to doing |
samelian | yep |
*kb9vqf goes back to work, grumbling and muttering |
MutantTurkey | git is awesome |
kb9vqf | That may be, but the change sure isn't when you're dealing with a project the size of Trinity |
kb9vqf | And all the automated tools that have been slowly built around SVN |
kb9vqf | e.g. first thing to break will be that nice set of patches on the Trinity website |
kb9vqf | Followed by other items internally |
kb9vqf | Maybe we'll move in the future, but NOT NOW |
kb9vqf | :) |
*samelian is proud, just getting power devices list using qt3 dbus :) |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: check this out |
MutantTurkey | http://96.245.17.6/index_main.html |
kb9vqf | Ooo, nice! |
MutantTurkey | also removes the need for frames, which suck |
kb9vqf | Can that gray become white though? |
MutantTurkey | one thing you want to have is the ability to change everything at once, so we can use php to include source code from a different file |
MutantTurkey | yessir |
MutantTurkey | that is all css able |
samelian | MutantTurkey: try #dedede for grey |
MutantTurkey | samelian: kb9vqf said white |
kb9vqf | Or very light gray |
kb9vqf | Let's see which looks better |
samelian | f0f0f0 |
kb9vqf | I hate the dark gray, that's all |
samelian | me too |
kb9vqf | Also, I'd like that header on all pages |
*kb9vqf can use PHP I suppose |
kb9vqf | Is the header in a separate php file? |
samelian | actually black header looking like kde4 |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | Yuck |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: like i said, will be. |
MutantTurkey | WAIT WHAT? |
kb9vqf | ?? |
MutantTurkey | sorry. |
MutantTurkey | to many chats open -__- |
samelian | in any case, the contrast between pure black and pure white is too high |
MutantTurkey | samelian: yes |
MutantTurkey | i am looking for a lighter grey |
samelian | grey is boring, i think |
samelian | at least for header |
kb9vqf | What did white look like? |
MutantTurkey | okay. look we can deal with that later |
MutantTurkey | it hurt my eyes |
MutantTurkey | let me show you |
MutantTurkey | look now http://96.245.17.6/index_main.html |
kb9vqf | I still see gray... |
MutantTurkey | refresh should do it. |
kb9vqf | Are we talking about the same thing? |
samelian | also, try body { margin: 0px; padding: 0px; } |
kb9vqf | I meant the header background |
MutantTurkey | yeah sorry |
MutantTurkey | weird padding |
kb9vqf | I was wondering what a white background with blue text would look like |
samelian | nope |
samelian | blue text meaning link |
kb9vqf | Right |
kb9vqf | For the links |
kb9vqf | Not for the other elements ;-) |
samelian | we must avoid blue for texts |
MutantTurkey | there we go. fixed that body issue |
kb9vqf | I was referring to blue text for the shortcut links on the top right |
samelian | the text must be dark grey or black |
MutantTurkey | I am confused by all of you talking D: |
samelian | haha |
kb9vqf | Dark blue for links, black for text |
MutantTurkey | and the bar? |
kb9vqf | Blue, as it is |
kb9vqf | OR |
kb9vqf | What about a background like ktip uses? |
kb9vqf | With the little squares fading away? |
kb9vqf | I kind of like that effect :) |
MutantTurkey | that means a image. |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | One |
MutantTurkey | that means slower loads. |
samelian | now, you need a content div, with some padding |
MutantTurkey | samelian: right. no fucking idea with that. tbh |
MutantTurkey | I am trying to fix the html right now. |
samelian | make this in css |
MutantTurkey | its a bit messy |
kb9vqf | Well, I was just thinking something other than white |
MutantTurkey | samelian: this is a css file. |
samelian | #content { padding: 10px; } |
samelian | then put the content in |
samelian | <div id="content">blablabla content</div> |
MutantTurkey | oh okay |
MutantTurkey | so basically you tag a div with an id and then it reads the css for it? |
MutantTurkey | applys the settings |
samelian | yes |
MutantTurkey | ah. css is not so hard :) |
samelian | actually is not |
samelian | for classes, you can use . (dot) |
samelian | .content { padding: 10px; } |
MutantTurkey | right i don't know that yet |
samelian | <div class="content">blabla</div> |
samelian | the id is used ONLY for unique objects |
MutantTurkey | :o |
MutantTurkey | oh |
MutantTurkey | so i start a divider and anything in that falls under content? |
samelian | anything until corespondent </div> |
MutantTurkey | look now :D :D http://96.245.17.6/index_main.html |
samelian | very well :) |
MutantTurkey | great :D |
samelian | do not forget to close opened divs |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: so this is definitely good progress. I think i need to take a break fromt the computer. |
MutantTurkey | samelian: of course. sanity is key. |
kb9vqf | OK, incredibly crude mock up, but what about this color scheme: |
kb9vqf | http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=208edsy&s=7 |
kb9vqf | MutantTurkey: ^^ |
MutantTurkey | from now on use imgur okay? |
MutantTurkey | http://imgur.com |
kb9vqf | Ah, much nicer |
kb9vqf | OK |
MutantTurkey | okay that theme is nice. |
MutantTurkey | imgur is just really easy. |
*kb9vqf didn't know about it |
kb9vqf | Thanks :) |
MutantTurkey | you can direct link files |
MutantTurkey | any way i think i will go for a walk |
kb9vqf | OK |
kb9vqf | ttyl |
samelian | kb9vqf: KDE3 have any class specialized to contain errors (type, name, etc)? |
samelian | I won't to send QDBusError directly to classes which will use libkupower |
kb9vqf | I don't see any |
kb9vqf | Usually errors are just handled via custom (class-specific) typdefs |
kb9vqf | enums that is |
samelian | i want to emit a signal when an error ocur |
kb9vqf | You could always create one ;-) |
kb9vqf | Use an int type |
kb9vqf | To contain the error |
kb9vqf | QString for description |
samelian | right now all apps which using dbus (like knetworkmanager) do not send usefull errors to user |
samelian | maybe we need to invent a generic error class? |
samelian | TError |
samelian | haha, terror |
samelian | sounds nice |
kb9vqf | Hehe |
*kb9vqf got Kate working (mostly) under Qt4... :) |
samelian | nice |
MutantTurkey | back |
samelian | on the other hand, seems that I will be able to handle DBUS directly |
kb9vqf | Great! |
*kb9vqf needs to go...sorry.... |
kb9vqf | MutantTurkey: Try the new color scheme |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: do you think we should have a right justified sub menu and such like arch linux? |
kb9vqf | YES |
kb9vqf | For release information and files |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: okay, well how would we integrate that immediately |
MutantTurkey | and i am going to get rid of index.php and rename index.html to index.php |
kb9vqf | OK |
kb9vqf | Put the 3.5.11 and 3.5.12 links in that box |
kb9vqf | The ones that were on the lower left |
MutantTurkey | oh okies. |
kb9vqf | We might move the distribution stuff there eventually, not sure ATM |
MutantTurkey | do you have an rss feed for package updates? or something |
kb9vqf | Nope |
kb9vqf | Not yet |
*kb9vqf doesn't know much about RSS |
kb9vqf | But I'm willing to learn :) |
kb9vqf | Seems to be all the rage these days |
MutantTurkey | :) great |
MutantTurkey | okay. what we need is |
MutantTurkey | a single defining sentance that defines trinity. |
*kb9vqf needs to go...sorry.... |
kb9vqf | poke me later :) |
MutantTurkey | okay great |
samelian | i'm not sure how to return values from my classes |
MutantTurkey | return value; |
MutantTurkey | :| |
samelian | bool TClient::enumerateDevices(QValueList<TDevice> &devices); |
samelian | or |
samelian | QValueList<TDevice> TClient::enumerateDevices(bool *ok); |
samelian | kb9vqf: you have any preffered way? |
samelian | MutantTurkey: is not so simple :) |
MutantTurkey | samelian: sorry i honestly was joking. I'm sure its confusing |
samelian | i know :) |
samelian | the problem is that I need to return two values at same time |
samelian | and I want to choose a "standard" way |
samelian | using the first method, is easy to test if the method was succesfully executed |
samelian | like |
samelian | if(client->enumerateDevices(devices)) qWarning("We have a problem"); |
samelian | "if(!", actually |
samelian | the second method is more clear |
samelian | bool ok; |
samelian | QValueList<TDevice> devices = TClient::enumerateDevices(&ok); |
samelian | if(!ok) qWarning("We have a problem"); |
MutantTurkey | right, well |
MutantTurkey | both ways seem pretty normal to me |
samelian | yes, but i need to choose one :) |
MutantTurkey | I say first one, seems more standard C to me. I don't know about C++ |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: hey so i have it including the top bar now :D |
samelian | C++ support referrences, not only pointers |
MutantTurkey | yes i do not understand references |
samelian | is something like this: |
samelian | my_function(bool &ok); |
samelian | I will call this function in this way: |
samelian | bool ok; |
samelian | my_function(ok); |
samelian | without using &ok |
MutantTurkey | oh alright |
samelian | also, if i'm not wrong, C cannot return structures |
samelian | only pointers |
samelian | or i'm wrong? |
samelian | C++ have operators overloading too |
samelian | for example, you can redefine the meaning of =, -, +, etc |
MutantTurkey | c can return structures? |
MutantTurkey | wait |
MutantTurkey | well |
MutantTurkey | pointers are everything in C |
samelian | yes, I know |
MutantTurkey | but you could also return a structure i think. |
samelian | as general rule, in C++ are avoided, if possible |
samelian | to avoid potential leaks |
samelian | memory leaks* |
MutantTurkey | you definitely can. for example. i wrote a web browser, to dynamicallycreate structures of tabs, i had a function that returned new tabs after being allocated |
MutantTurkey | memory leaks D: |
MutantTurkey | the bane of my existanc |
samelian | valgrind is your friend :) |
MutantTurkey | yeah super useful |
MutantTurkey | valgrind and gdb and such |
samelian | if you check a (good writen) C++ source, you will found that pointers are almost unused |
MutantTurkey | samelian: okay what else needs to happen? http://96.245.17.6/ |
samelian | seems ok for me |
samelian | as layout |
MutantTurkey | okay. great |
samelian | maybe a little bigger padding for #content |
samelian | try 20px |
samelian | for validate html, use http://validator.w3.org/ |
MutantTurkey | okay |
MutantTurkey | yeah |
MutantTurkey | i am sanitizing it right now. |
samelian | use the same case for tags |
samelian | i preffer lower case for tags |
MutantTurkey | yeah |
MutantTurkey | it was all uppercase |
MutantTurkey | so i didn't change it |
MutantTurkey | i could use sed to replace them, but i am lazy |
MutantTurkey | it is proper to do </p> right? |
samelian | yes |
MutantTurkey | great |
MutantTurkey | and that acts as a <BR> also? |
samelian | sort of |
samelian | <br> and <hr> can be avoided |
MutantTurkey | hr? |
MutantTurkey | hr is a line i thought |
samelian | horizontal line |
samelian | yes |
samelian | you can use style |
samelian | for div |
MutantTurkey | you can style it to add a horizontal line? |
samelian | border-bottom: solid 1px #000000 |
MutantTurkey | NICE |
MutantTurkey | thank you. |
MutantTurkey | I am linking css more and more :) |
samelian | hehe |
MutantTurkey | liking' |
samelian | actually this is the way |
samelian | web 2.0 :) |
MutantTurkey | gross :p |
MutantTurkey | actually i like web 2.0 just not anything that is over doing it. |
samelian | also, we must avoid <font> tag |
MutantTurkey | http://incise.org is my style |
MutantTurkey | samelian: yes i know. that is obvious |
samelian | for most my own pages, I use incise.org style too |
Xu_R_ | MutantTurkey: nice new layout, it looks good for a Trinity website :) I'd love to see that on Trinity anytime, just maybe not so much looking like Arch |
Xu_R_ | 's website o.o |
MutantTurkey | Xu_R_: yes. we are re theming it. |
MutantTurkey | http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=208edsy&s=7 |
MutantTurkey | more like that. |
Xu_R_ | MutantTurkey: niceeee |
samelian | on right side we can put trinity screenshots |
MutantTurkey | want some on the home page? |
samelian | why now |
samelian | not |
MutantTurkey | if you could send me a nice, default picture i could add it. |
MutantTurkey | I'll make a thumbnail (should be standard) and then have a screenshot section |
MutantTurkey | thumbnails are low quality and low res as to make it loast faster |
Xu_R_ | MutantTurkey: letthe screenshot of the latest release |
Xu_R_ | *let's have it so the screenshot is of the latest release |
MutantTurkey | the screen of te latest release? |
MutantTurkey | can i get one, I don't have trinity :o |
Xu_R_ | http://apt.pearsoncomputing.net/cdimages/ the ad screenshots :) |
samelian | MutantTurkey: for body you do not need to use id |
samelian | you can declare in css in this way: |
samelian | body { blabla styles; } |
MutantTurkey | samelian: hmmm I thought i did that |
samelian | nope |
MutantTurkey | there we go |
samelian | in your css i see #body |
MutantTurkey | look at the html. sanitized. |
MutantTurkey | wait not yet D: wtf is with all these caps |
samelian | close </body> and </html> too |
MutantTurkey | how do i not use font if i want a specific font for one word? |
MutantTurkey | (for the record i didn't write this page, it was already messed up i am fixing it up. |
MutantTurkey | :p |
samelian | <span> |
MutantTurkey | <span>? |
samelian | <span style="font:"> |
MutantTurkey | isn't that basically the same thing? |
samelian | actually is not good ideea to change font face in text |
MutantTurkey | I typically disagree but not in this point |
MutantTurkey | in this case the colors are important |
samelian | i see that here we use font for changing colose |
samelian | color |
MutantTurkey | yeah |
samelian | you can use this style: |
samelian | span.red { color: #ff0000; } |
samelian | and in html |
samelian | test <span class="red">red text</span> |
MutantTurkey | okay. |
MutantTurkey | so span.red span.green etc? |
MutantTurkey | what about <i> and <b>? |
samelian | <em> |
samelian | and <strong> |
MutantTurkey | wow really? |
samelian | yep |
MutantTurkey | i thought we got rid of strong |
samelian | in any case, I do not like very much textes with too many colors |
MutantTurkey | agreed |
samelian | is like a rambow :) |
samelian | parrot, actually :) |
MutantTurkey | what about the totally rank gnarley table he has there, what should i do with it? |
MutantTurkey | samelian: another q, with the bottem border, should i make an ID for each group or one for them all? |
samelian | only one |
MutantTurkey | okay |
MutantTurkey | named "section" ? |
MutantTurkey | is that fine? |
samelian | yes, pretty clear |
MutantTurkey | okay sweet |
MutantTurkey | my childhood hobby of working on html is returning rapidly |
samelian | just do not use id, but class |
MutantTurkey | D: |
samelian | as i said, id is for unique objects |
MutantTurkey | schwat? |
MutantTurkey | oh |
MutantTurkey | class="blah blah blah" |
MutantTurkey | defined the same way? |
samelian | yes |
samelian | put . (dot) instead #, in css |
MutantTurkey | so .content { padding: 10px; font-family: sans-serif;} |
MutantTurkey | ? |
samelian | yes |
MutantTurkey | for example |
MutantTurkey | thanks |
MutantTurkey | so you reckon this new website will be used? |
samelian | i'm, pretty sure :) |
MutantTurkey | sweet. i hope everyone is impressed |
samelian | make likes grey |
MutantTurkey | links? |
samelian | separator lines |
samelian | for sections |
MutantTurkey | oh |
MutantTurkey | okay |
MutantTurkey | yeah, how do i add padding to them? |
MutantTurkey | like, the bottom border is right up on the last line of the divider |
samelian | instead solid you can also use dotted and dashed |
samelian | padding-top |
samelian | padding-bottom |
MutantTurkey | okay |
MutantTurkey | great |
samelian | also, you can use margin-top, margin-bottom |
MutantTurkey | okay also, should i create a footer also? |
samelian | sure |
<msg channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="samelian" time="2011-02-05T00:51:12Z">© 2011 blabla</msg> |
MutantTurkey | yeah all that jaz |
MutantTurkey | jazz' |
samelian | put in <head> this: |
samelian | <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> |
MutantTurkey | okay |
samelian | and before <html> |
samelian | <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd"> |
MutantTurkey | okay did that |
MutantTurkey | no wait. |
MutantTurkey | its not html is php |
MutantTurkey | does that matter? |
samelian | nope |
MutantTurkey | it does |
MutantTurkey | because i just added it and removed it and it broke the header during it. |
MutantTurkey | didn't seem to load the CSS |
samelian | for browser is plain html |
MutantTurkey | fixed it |
MutantTurkey | the meta needed a /> on the end |
samelian | check with html validator |
samelian | i think you have some errors |
MutantTurkey | thanks for your no stop help |
samelian | hehe |
samelian | at this moment, is my current job :) |
samelian | unfortunately for me |
MutantTurkey | yeah this would be no fun |
samelian | you have no <html> before <head> |
MutantTurkey | D: |
MutantTurkey | i am so forgetful |
samelian | http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://96.245.17.6/&charset=(detect+automatically)&doctype=Inline&group=0 |
MutantTurkey | the validator is telling me i can't have a /> at the end of my first line, but without it my css won't load D: |
MutantTurkey | I'm already on it :P |
samelian | remove it |
samelian | then will see what happens |
MutantTurkey | no or else my css breaks? |
samelian | is break for a reason |
samelian | remove / and will see what is wrong |
MutantTurkey | the only thing wrong is apparently tables are no longer supposed to use bordercolor or padding |
MutantTurkey | how do i put that into a css property? |
MutantTurkey | make an id for a table? |
samelian | sure |
samelian | try to remove media= from css link |
samelian | i'm not sure what is wrong with it |
MutantTurkey | ? |
samelian | wait a moment |
MutantTurkey | okay |
samelian | try to remove media="screen, projection" |
MutantTurkey | i did |
samelian | hmm, strange |
MutantTurkey | yeah, would it be related to my php include maybe? |
samelian | i don't think so |
MutantTurkey | hrmm |
samelian | hehe, you must be happy that "This document was successfully checked as HTML 4.01 Transitional!" :) |
MutantTurkey | well apparently it is valid |
MutantTurkey | yeah. |
MutantTurkey | D: |
MutantTurkey | should i just say "FUCK STANDARDS" and fix the two lines back to the way they were? |
MutantTurkey | i mean other than that it is valid |
samelian | haha |
samelian | ok, remove !DOCTYPE, will check another time what is the problem |
samelian | wait, i will validate css too |
MutantTurkey | okay good thinking |
samelian | http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=96.245.17.6/media/archnavbar.css&profile=css21&usermedium=all&warning=1&vextwarning=&lang=en |
MutantTurkey | won't validate |
MutantTurkey | my mime types are screwey it won't serve it up. |
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samelian | seems that your server announce that css is octet-stream |
MutantTurkey | yeah whatever |
MutantTurkey | i'll copy paste |
samelian | must be css/text |
samelian | i think you must set lighthttp to announce corect tyle of css file |
MutantTurkey | I just copied in the text to the CSS validator |
MutantTurkey | said 'grats no errors :) |
samelian | aha |
MutantTurkey | do you think that is why my css is messed up? |
samelian | i think that will working well on correct set server |
samelian | nope, i don't think so |
MutantTurkey | oh well. I am not worried. |
MutantTurkey | it is fine |
samelian | correct "Offical" word |
*Xu_R_ goes to play with tbottu |
samelian | tbottu: who you are? |
tbottu | samelian: Sorry, I've no idea what 'who you' are. |
samelian | haha |
Xu_R_ | lol |
MutantTurkey | who is tbottu |
Xu_R_ | tbottu, who are you? |
Xu_R_ | tbottu: who are you? |
Xu_R_ | DX it doesn't like me XD |
samelian | he have no ideea :) |
Xu_R_ | MutantTurkey: just the channel bot :P |
Xu_R_ | tbottu, what is kb9vqf? |
tbottu | Xu_R_: Sorry, I've no idea what 'kb9vqf' is. |
MutantTurkey | Xu_R_: needs a different name |
Xu_R_ | tbottu, what are you? |
MutantTurkey | you guys need simpler names D: |
samelian | tbottu: who is tbottu |
Xu_R_ | tbottu: help |
tbottu | samelian: everyone knows that! tbottu is your benevolent host and logging droid, capable of giving helpful misinformation, bug status messages, and translations via Yahoo |
tbottu | Xu_R_: help info /msg'ed |
MutantTurkey | is tbottu a supybot? |
MutantTurkey | It'd be nice to have it fetch link titles and such |
Xu_R_ | MutantTurkey: no, it's the mozilla ircbot |
samelian | tbottu: google blabla |
tbottu | samelian: Sorry, I've no idea what 'google blabla' might be. |
samelian | tbottu: you are stupid |
tbottu | samelian: But you are 'still of use to the project for sure'... |
samelian | haha |
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Xu_R_ | lol |
Xu_R_ | tbottu, converter |
tbottu | Xu_R_: Sorry, I've no idea what 'converter' might be. |
samelian | tbottu: help |
MutantTurkey | mozilla irc bot? |
tbottu | samelian: help info /msg'ed |
MutantTurkey | make it a supy bot |
Xu_R_ | tbottu, Convert 25 F to C |
tbottu | Xu_R_: Sorry, I've no idea what 'Convert 25 F to C' might be. |
samelian | tbottu: 1+1 |
tbottu | samelian: Sorry, I've no idea what '1+1' might be. |
Xu_R_ | tbottu, temperature 25F |
tbottu | Xu_R_: Sorry, I've no idea what 'temperature 25F' might be. |
Xu_R_ | :( |
samelian | tbottu: Xu_R_ is sad |
Xu_R_ | the tbottu is dumb. |
tbottu | samelian: ok |
Xu_R_ | XD |
MutantTurkey | okay new theme |
MutantTurkey | http://96.245.17.6/ |
Xu_R_ | MutantTurkey: :O |
samelian | MutantTurkey: change color for menu intems |
Xu_R_ | oooh, ahhhh... /stares |
MutantTurkey | to blue? |
Xu_R_ | it looks perfect for me :) |
MutantTurkey | hahah :p |
samelian | can by a grey background |
Xu_R_ | MutantTurkey: top menu, hovering over menu items should not make them white (aka, unseeable) |
samelian | put this: |
samelian | a:hover { background-color: grey; } |
MutantTurkey | right |
MutantTurkey | there we go |
samelian | or you can do this |
MutantTurkey | I did it (was just a color change, the hover was just set to white) |
samelian | a:hover { border: 1px grey #a0a0a0; background-color: #dedede; } |
samelian | actually |
samelian | a:hover { border: 1px solid #a0a0a0; background-color: #dedede; } |
MutantTurkey | ? |
MutantTurkey | what does that do? |
samelian | in css |
samelian | instead #archnavbar ul li a:hover { color: #999 !important; text-decoration: underline !important; } |
MutantTurkey | you lost me. |
samelian | replace #archnavbar ul li a:hover { color: #999 !important; text-decoration: underline !important; } |
samelian | with |
samelian | #archnavbar a:hover { border: 1px solid #a0a0a0; background-color: #dedede; } |
MutantTurkey | okay |
MutantTurkey | I am not sure i like it this way. why the change? |
samelian | just for fun :) |
samelian | can be improved |
MutantTurkey | D: |
MutantTurkey | well i think i have made enough progress for one day? |
samelian | i think so |
MutantTurkey | I'd like to get the table working though first |
samelian | instead working on libkupower i play with css :) |
Xu_R_ | go samelian! :P |
MutantTurkey | anyway I'm all done for the day. |
MutantTurkey | I will leave my website running up for you guys so show kb9vqf if he comes back tonight |
MutantTurkey | i maybe be able to hop on tonight. |
MutantTurkey | or do you think i should mailing list this? |
samelian | not yet |
samelian | i think we need to improbe a little the color scheme |
MutantTurkey | yes. |
MutantTurkey | i do not like white ad the background. |
MutantTurkey | for the top bar |
MutantTurkey | anyway people can argue about colors all they want, the key is getting the website updated |
samelian | for sure |
MutantTurkey | because the current one is a major turn off. |
MutantTurkey | how is anyone going to think of you as up to date if you are using a website from 1999? |
samelian | hehe |
MutantTurkey | Alright well i gotta split. heading over to a buddies to hang out. |
MutantTurkey | talk to you later. and thanks for all the css help |
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*kb9vqf doesn't care for the baby blue banner background on the website |
*kb9vqf likes white much better |
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Strangelv | What would be a better color? |
Strangelv | My guess is it was chosen as that's the legacy heraldic color we inherited |
Strangelv | possibyl offtopic: could we get away with fixing the right ALT key for US keyboards? |
Strangelv | "or would that perturb someone at Canonical? |
*Strangelv is tyring to get a graphical pattern for a project code named Kookaburra that he's been working on since last week around distractions and the non-vorking right alt is getting to be very, very annoying |
Strangelv | "Actualy, there's two vecrsions of teh pattern. one of them is finished. The second version isn'd done a week and a half later... need to be faster with the next one |
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*Strangelv finally finds the hidden place in the hidden configuration applet he couldn't remember the name for that makes right alt work again |
Strangelv | "What if we put kcontrol back into the menuing system? |
Strangelv | "for *ubuntu? |
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*Strangelv pondecrs how to rearrange KControl so that it's less unintuitive |
Strangelv | "The more I tihnk about it, the more it occurs to me that our core purpose is to provide teh most flexible and customizable desktop experience |
Strangelv | Or to take our calling from a GNOME developer who can't stand our product, 'never meet a user accessable control we don't like' |
*Strangelv ponders logos that represent this. A can of modeling clay? a set of tinkertoys? a handheld mirror? colorful wooden blocks? |
Strangelv | The Ubuntu provided KDE control panel hides too many controls |
strowi | ping serghei? |
samelian | pong :) |
strowi | ah, hi thx for your mails regarding the ebuilds (i'm Roman). |
samelian | welcome |
strowi | i got kdelibs compiled without avahi, still have a problem with the libdir on 64bit though. |
samelian | what kind of problem? |
strowi | not sure if its arts or kdelibs.. compiling kdelibs with arts, seems to need /usr/kde/3.5/lib/libmcop.so.1, which is called ../lib64/.. that symlink is created after compilation of kdelibs. |
samelian | aha, i think is arts |
samelian | but in arts' cmake is _tde_internal_setup_path( LIB_INSTALL_DIR "${EXEC_INSTALL_PREFIX}/lib${LIB_SUFFIX}" ) |
strowi | everything is installed in lib64, but it seems mcopidl looks in lib ( http://paste.pocoo.org/show/332524/ ) |
samelian | is used LIB_SUFFIX |
samelian | you set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to apropriate dir? |
strowi | where should i have set that? |
strowi | oh.. hold on a second.. |
samelian | strowi: i think i found the problem |
samelian | -DCMAKE_INSTALL_RPATH=/usr/kde/3.5/lib |
strowi | i didn't see the hardcoded MAKE_INSTALL_RPATH in kdelibs |
samelian | in ebuild |
strowi | ;) |
strowi | ${DEFAULT_ABI} should work |
strowi | need to fix that in all others ebuilds or still create the symlink.. |
samelian | CMAKE_INSTALL_RPATH was I temporary workaround |
samelian | I think the better idea is to use LD_LIBRARY_PATH |
samelian | /I temporary/a temporary/ |
strowi | LD_LIBRARY_PATH = LDPAT H? |
samelian | strowi: whay you mean |
samelian | what* |
strowi | sry, is LD_LIBRARY_PATH the same as LDPATH? |
samelian | i'm not sure, I don't know what is LDPATH |
samelian | LD_LIBRARY_PATH is like PATH, but for libraries |
strowi | ok, seems gentoo-specific... |
strowi | "I keep reading that LD_LIBRARY_PATH is insecure, and for gentoo env vars, it seems to only use LDPATH" |
samelian | i see |
samelian | in this case go to use LDPATH |
strowi | addded to todo. |
strowi | ok, that worked.;) |
samelian | very well |
samelian | strowi: you used my git repo for makink yours? |
strowi | samelian, yes |
samelian | i this is a bit outdated |
samelian | I think |
*samelian can't type |
strowi | hehe.. which one? |
samelian | git diff show me a pretty long list :) |
strowi | mhh.. can you push it, or send me a patch? |
samelian | the most important I think is kdevelop |
samelian | wait |
samelian | strowi: pushed |
strowi | if the diff is only new ebuild it can wait a little still need to work through the existing ones. |
samelian | sure |
samelian | strowi: there is one more person who working on ebuilds |
strowi | really? who? |
samelian | toxic_something |
samelian | a russian guy |
samelian | I think that would be good ideea to merge our efforts |
samelian | to avoid duplicate work |
strowi | sure, didn't know there was anyone else.. |
strowi | do you have contact to him? |
samelian | he appear here, from time to time |
samelian | but he tell me that his english is not so good |
samelian | I think do not matter to much, me english is bad either :) |
samelian | s/me/my/ |
strowi | well, my russian is non-existant. So bad english es better than nothing. |
samelian | hehe |
samelian | if you want, I will give you right to change the git repo started by me |
strowi | that would be nice, but i can't promise i won't mess up sth... |
samelian | no problem, my ebuild are ugly anyway :) |
samelian | you have account on github? |
strowi | just found another problem... kde-config seems to be missing... |
samelian | be sure that PATH are correctly set |
strowi | its not in kde/3.5/bin/ |
samelian | kde-config is not in /usr/kde/3.5/bin ? |
samelian | are you sure? |
strowi | yes, only arts-files |
samelian | kdelibs are installed? |
strowi | yes |
samelian | hmm, strange |
strowi | maybe i messed sth up already. |
samelian | you changed something in CMakeLists.txt? |
strowi | only the avahi-part. |
strowi | http://paste.pocoo.org/show/332538/ |
samelian | yes, I saw it in your git |
samelian | "qfile kde-config" do not return anything? |
strowi | nope |
samelian | weird |
samelian | try to re-emerge kdelibs and check what happens with kde-config |
strowi | already running ebuild .. install |
samelian | ok, ping me if you found something |
strowi | ok |
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strowi | rehi samelian |
samelian | strowi: you found something? |
strowi | well.. i found my own mistake.. |
strowi | i added a src_install, but forgot to call cmake-utils_src_install *argh* |
strowi | so there was nothing installed from kdelibs.. as i said before, i am not that much of an portage-guru. |
Strangelv | "You're making far better headway than I would |
strowi | samelian, my github account is "strowi". |
samelian | ok |
strowi | samelian, how do you handle the Manifests? Do you merge them or rm/add them? |
samelian | rm/digest |
strowi | oh.. there must be an easier way.. maybe via post-update-hook.. |
samelian | strowi: I added you to github |
strowi | samelian, thx, i will still maintain my own overlay and push to yours as i have working versions and i see fit. if that is ok. |
samelian | for sure |
samelian | we are volunteers, after all :) |
strowi | samelian, do you want your distfiles added to the mirrorlist or should mine me the only one? |
samelian | exclude my host |
samelian | maybe I will broke it |
strowi | ok, will you update the distfiles? I have no idea how/where to get them.. |
samelian | I make a lot experiments and is hard to keep is stabke |
samelian | stable |
samelian | from svn |
samelian | http://websvn.kde.org/branches/trinity/ |
samelian | Ladislav Laska (Krakonos) have write rights on my git repo too |
samelian | but seems inactive |
strowi | uhh looks like lots of work to do.. |
samelian | what do you mean? |
samelian | you talk about svn? |
strowi | i have to check how to make the packages from the svn and how/which directories to include... |
samelian | follow my distfiles |
strowi | ok, but first things first.. get a working version.;) |
samelian | hehe, ok |
samelian | if you have suggestions related to cmake, do not make patches for gentoo |
samelian | just tell me, and I will commit it to svn |
strowi | samelian, understood, it was just the single avahi till now... |
samelian | ok, I will incorporate it to my cmake files |
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MutantTurkey | o/ |
Strangelv | Morning |
MutantTurkey | morning |
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toxic_devil | hi all |
MutantTurkey | hey |
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toxic_devil | hi |
MutantTurkey | how is it going? |
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MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: I've emailed some guy who had a great article about Slackware and Trinity, asking him if we could include it on the improved website. |
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toxic_devil | shit |
MutantTurkey | what? |
MutantTurkey | samelian: hey man i need some formatting help D: |
toxic_devil | а мне cmake нужен на остальной софт |
samelian | hit me |
MutantTurkey | samelian: what do i do with <u> 's? |
MutantTurkey | why did they get rid of that? |
MutantTurkey | ITS FUCKING annoying as hell. |
MutantTurkey | css is great but. |
MutantTurkey | seriously i don't want to define something for a single word. |
samelian | replace <u> with <em> |
toxic_devil | samelian: hm |
MutantTurkey | em is underline? |
samelian | ah, no |
samelian | i have no ideea |
MutantTurkey | :| |
toxic_devil | samelian: cmake у тебя есть на остальной софт? |
MutantTurkey | i feel like they got rid of it for no reason whatsoever |
samelian | i'm against text decoration, becaue is like a link |
MutantTurkey | change for the sake of change |
samelian | toxic_devil: i do not understand |
toxic_devil | ( |
samelian | you ask me what version for cmake i have? |
toxic_devil | эмм |
toxic_devil | блин |
toxic_devil | when will complete porting to cmake? |
toxic_devil | pim |
toxic_devil | multimedia |
samelian | depends what you understand with "complete" |
toxic_devil | блин |
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toxic_devil | мне нужен CMakeFilelist.txt на все пакеты |
samelian | there are all done packages: http://www.thel.ro/ |
toxic_devil | samelian: а когда это все в svn будет? |
samelian | i'm not sure |
toxic_devil | в чем не уверен?? |
toxic_devil | почему svn в таком плачевном состоянии?? |
toxic_devil | что у вас там вообше происходит? |
samelian | i working on cmake port only in my spare time |
samelian | so, I do not know when will be ready |
MutantTurkey | samelian: i can help probably |
toxic_devil | вы извините конечно но вы как то неслаженно работаете((( |
samelian | don't worry, is obviosuly |
toxic_devil | samelian: соберите все файлы и закачайте на svn |
toxic_devil | [20:36:30] <megabaks> |
toxic_devil | »Note: these tarballs contain ONLY cmake related files (not trinity sources). |
toxic_devil | пля - да у него всё есть уже - только пульни на свн и всё! |
toxic_devil | »Note: these tarballs contain ONLY cmake related files (not trinity sources). |
toxic_devil | samelian: понимаешь? |
samelian | the cmake files are not ready to be commited to svn |
toxic_devil | samelian: закачай файлы хоть куда нибудь |
toxic_devil | раз времени нет |
toxic_devil | samelian: что именно не готово? |
samelian | i think the cmake files will be change too often |
samelian | and I do not want to flood svn wil a lot small changes |
samelian | can be annoying for other kde developers |
toxic_devil | samelian: вы что договориться не можете между собой? |
samelian | this is not problem, the problem is that I have a rule to not commit unfinished work to svn |
toxic_devil | samelian: у тебя правило? |
toxic_devil | а нам что делать?? |
toxic_devil | как собирать? |
toxic_devil | сделайте нормальную инструкцию по сборке |
samelian | at this moment you can use my distfiles |
toxic_devil | }:-( |
samelian | or you can help to make more cmake files :) |
toxic_devil | samelian: у тебя есть что-нибудь наподобие инструкции по сборке? |
toxic_devil | тогда мы help тебе |
toxic_devil | не |
toxic_devil | ну обидно |
toxic_devil | debian и ubuntu сразу сделали деб паеты а нам фиг |
samelian | this is because deb are using autotools instead cmake |
samelian | I won't using autotools for ebuilds |
toxic_devil | WTF? |
toxic_devil | почему для базы можно, а для pim например нет? |
samelian | kdepim is partial comleted, only kmail are ported |
toxic_devil | samelian: а когда готово будет? |
samelian | i can't be sure, because I working on other projects too |
samelian | right now I have't time to continue cmake |
toxic_devil | samelian: а почему ты один этим занимаешься |
samelian | i have no ideea, because nobody won't help me? :)) |
toxic_devil | на вас кто-то жавит что ли? |
toxic_devil | давит |
toxic_devil | samelian: если даш пример чего-нибудь, то я от тебя отстану |
samelian | please rephrase, i do not understand |
toxic_devil | samelian: Мы не можем ждать |
toxic_devil | если будете так делать |
toxic_devil | ваш проект умрет |
samelian | in this case, you can help it to survive :) |
toxic_devil | samelian: так |
toxic_devil | samelian: давай все что у тя есть |
samelian | everyting is on www.thel.ro, this my website |
toxic_devil | samelian: что нить еше есть? |
samelian | nope |
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MutantTurkey | o/ |
MutantTurkey | Who else here is making an attempt to do trinity on arch? someone posted to the mailing list again? nattyice something at gmail.com |
samelian | MutantTurkey: if i'm not wrong, David C. Rankin |
MutantTurkey | what is his nickname on the irc? |
samelian | i'm not sure that is active on irc |
MutantTurkey | ah. |
MutantTurkey | yeah i need to ask him what he has done so far. |
samelian | right now, he trying to build kdebase |
samelian | check on mailing list my discussion with him |
MutantTurkey | okay I will. |
MutantTurkey | did he build all the other stuff like tqt-interface and such? |
samelian | i guess |
MutantTurkey | he definitely was doing it wrong. didn't even patch qt3 so i dunno |
MutantTurkey | samelian: is it bad to use the <br> tag? |
samelian | sometimes can be used |
samelian | but most of times you do something wrong if you need <br> |
MutantTurkey | http://96.245.17.6/installation.php |
MutantTurkey | i need to format that specificially for new lines. so i forced a br |
MutantTurkey | look at the source |
MutantTurkey | is that okay? |
samelian | i think you can use <p> for each line |
MutantTurkey | ? |
MutantTurkey | really? |
samelian | <p>deb http://ppa.quickbuild.pearsoncomputing.net/trinity/trinity/ubuntu maverick main</p> |
samelian | why not |
MutantTurkey | the would result in excess spacing |
MutantTurkey | i just need a line break. |
MutantTurkey | why not just <br> (break) |
samelian | you can style <p> |
MutantTurkey | wouldn't that make more sense? |
MutantTurkey | what is wrong with <br> / |
samelian | maybe you want to indent a little the text |
MutantTurkey | it is supported in HTML5 and does exactly what i need it to. |
MutantTurkey | I already have it indented 20px. there is a "subsection" |
samelian | actually for code i suggest to use <pre> |
MutantTurkey | okay |
samelian | you don't need to keep <br> in <pre> |
samelian | <pre> preserve the text exactly |
samelian | including new lines and spaces |
samelian | yes, very nice |
samelian | just unindent the code |
MutantTurkey | okay |
MutantTurkey | well i kind of like it. |
MutantTurkey | I'd rather actually do like a text box |
MutantTurkey | for code |
MutantTurkey | with a different color |
samelian | <pre> support styles, of course |
MutantTurkey | for example |
MutantTurkey | like |
MutantTurkey | https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Rc.conf |
MutantTurkey | they have a text area for code |
samelian | you can style <pre> as a <div> |
MutantTurkey | so <div id="code"> then <pre> in it? |
samelian | nope |
MutantTurkey | ? |
samelian | <pre class="code"> |
samelian | for example |
MutantTurkey | oh :D |
MutantTurkey | so that makes it act as a div? |
samelian | of couse |
samelian | sort of |
samelian | any container can be styled like a div |
MutantTurkey | oh alright |
samelian | in css, pre.code |
MutantTurkey | http://96.245.17.6/installation.php |
MutantTurkey | eh? |
samelian | pretty well |
samelian | just last line is wrong |
samelian | </pre> must be exactly after .....eps/ubuntu maverick main |
MutantTurkey | right okay |
samelian | because <pre> preserve all line separators |
MutantTurkey | also how do i make it not go the full width? |
samelian | in css |
samelian | width: 70% |
MutantTurkey | would that work for all scenerios? |
samelian | i think |
MutantTurkey | no it won't |
MutantTurkey | because if you have a really small screen it will not wrap the whole text |
samelian | try width: 10% |
samelian | i'm curios if <pre> will be enlarged automatically if the text cannot fit |
samelian | won't |
MutantTurkey | nah |
samelian | try this |
samelian | remove width |
samelian | an put |
samelian | position:relative |
MutantTurkey | nothing. |
MutantTurkey | like this guy has it: http://projectcerbera.com/web/articles/code-in-pre |
samelian | hmm, actually you need a fixed size of code container |
samelian | othwerwise will look ugly |
MutantTurkey | to the specific size of the code? |
samelian | nopw |
samelian | fixed in pixels |
MutantTurkey | D: i thought that was not reccomende |
samelian | will be ugly when the code will have different length |
MutantTurkey | did you see that link? |
samelian | yes, what you look for? |
MutantTurkey | their code box works how i would like it too |
samelian | i'm not so sure |
samelian | his box is narrow because the column is narrow |
MutantTurkey | ah |
*K`zan has joined #trinity-desktop |
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samelian | kb9vqf: i don't know if you read about my question related to return values |
samelian | we have two methods to return results |
samelian | bool TClientPrivate::enumerateDevices(QValueList<TDevice> &devices) |
samelian | and QValueList<TDevice> TClient::enumerateDevices(bool *ok) |
kb9vqf | OK |
kb9vqf | What's the question? |
samelian | which of them you preffer? |
samelian | in first case, we can include it easy in if |
samelian | like if(client->enumerateDevices(devices)) |
kb9vqf | I like the first case |
samelian | the second one seems easy to understand |
kb9vqf | It is closer to existing methods in Trinity |
kb9vqf | Many Qt/Trinity methods return a bool error status |
kb9vqf | I haven't seen anything like the second case within Trinity |
samelian | so, this must be standard and I need to folow it |
kb9vqf | Consistency is good :) |
kb9vqf | Unless there is a very good reason not to |
*kb9vqf doesn't like bool pointers anyway |
samelian | yes, for consistency reason i bother you :) |
kb9vqf | No bother :) |
samelian | kb9vqf: also, maybe you have another ideea about signaling errors |
samelian | ATM i implement it like this: |
samelian | I send an error() signal |
samelian | and the receiver of signal check for sender->lastError(); |
samelian | hmm, I just observed that this can be a problem in a concurent environment |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | Usually errors are handled via a return type of int |
kb9vqf | The int value encodes an error type which is specified in an enum |
samelian | in dbus environment will not be possibile to do this |
kb9vqf | Then emit() the int error value |
kb9vqf | The receiver can check the int value and determine the error |
samelian | you can't encode as int something like "Method "EnumerateDevices1" with signature "" on interface "org.freedesktop.UPower" doesn't exist" |
kb9vqf | You can also emit() an int and a QString |
samelian | yes, this can be a better ideea |
kb9vqf | together that is |
samelian | also, I want to know from where come the error |
kb9vqf | Technically you can emit() as many objects as you like |
samelian | the same error can come from TClient or TDevice |
kb9vqf | So emit() a device type as well |
kb9vqf | Just make sure that that is an int or other machine parsable value |
kb9vqf | Strings are not reliably machine-parsable |
kb9vqf | They are only there to help the human operator ;-) |
samelian | actually my intention is to help humans |
samelian | is very unpleasant when an application just not working, without a clue for what reason is not working |
samelian | an example is knetworkmanager |
kb9vqf | Right |
kb9vqf | My point is: |
kb9vqf | emit() both human and machine readable values |
kb9vqf | Not just one or the other |
kb9vqf | For every int there should be a QString |
kb9vqf | containing the error description |
samelian | i'm not sure if machine readable value can be used for anything |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | Error handling/suppression |
kb9vqf | Spurious errors do happen |
kb9vqf | Or errors that are irrelevant in the current context |
samelian | the error will be emitted asynchronously |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | But the watching program could theoretically ignore an error that it deems irrelevant |
samelian | look, i imagine something like this: |
samelian | if(enumerateDevices(devices)) qWarning("We have a problem, handle it"); |
samelian | emit error("Method call 'EnumerateDevices' failed with unknown error."); |
samelian | the slot connected to error() will show an message box to user |
kb9vqf | I wouild like to have an int there as well |
samelian | to inform him about what happens |
kb9vqf | so emit error(-1, "Unknown error")' |
kb9vqf | Error codes are GOOD |
kb9vqf | For the developer and for client applications |
samelian | I agree, but when can be encoded |
samelian | most of errors come from sbus |
samelian | dbus |
kb9vqf | Does DBUS ONLY return error strings? |
kb9vqf | Or does it also return an error code? |
samelian | dbus return an QDBusError |
samelian | but i'm not sure that dbus errors are relevant in other context than dbus |
samelian | dbus error code have no meaning in applications |
kb9vqf | My thought is: let the application developer determine what has meaning |
kb9vqf | Give them as much information as possible |
kb9vqf | Even a semi-random error code will aid debugging |
kb9vqf | If it is unique |
kb9vqf | The application can always ignore the error code |
samelian | yes, of course |
kb9vqf | Otherwise we start telling app developers what they can and cannot use, and that sounds very familiar from KDE4 |
kb9vqf | ;-) |
samelian | hehe |
samelian | ok, I will think about int encoding and how to do it useful |
samelian | I can emit directly QDBusError |
samelian | but the insulation from dbus will be compromitted |
samelian | compromised* |
samelian | kb9vqf: you know, qt4 dbus API is very different from qt3 dbus API? |
kb9vqf | Yes |
samelian | ok, in this case I will delegate low level calls to private class |
samelian | will be TClientPrivate_qt4.cpp |
samelian | and TClientPrivate_qt3.cpp |
kb9vqf | OK |
kb9vqf | Get qt3 working, then qt4 |
samelian | of course |
kb9vqf | :) |
samelian | actually i can't test qt4 version atm |
*kb9vqf may have to add the Qt3 DBUS API to TQt |
kb9vqf | I know at least knetworkmanager uses it |
kb9vqf | It may just be easier to handle it with TQt |
*kb9vqf is not sure ATM |
samelian | ok, will see later |
kb9vqf | Yup |
samelian | i will isolate anyway dbus api callcs |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: doing alot of work on the website still. |
kb9vqf | OK |
kb9vqf | Just so you know, I really, really hate the light baby blue background ;-) |
kb9vqf | Some other color maybe? |
MutantTurkey | D: which one? |
kb9vqf | The one in the header background |
samelian | bleah, I have a problem with bool method(&result) |
MutantTurkey | I just have it for the purpose of showing what a color would look like. |
kb9vqf | OK; I do prefer white |
kb9vqf | But that can be changed later |
samelian | for things like QString TClient::daemonVersion() |
MutantTurkey | okay I'll show you now |
kb9vqf | samelian: What's the problem? |
samelian | for consistency, i must to use bool TClient::daemonVersion(QString &result) |
samelian | but seems unnatural |
kb9vqf | Hmmm |
kb9vqf | There's another way to handle that |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: okay it is a white background now. |
kb9vqf | Usually you can return a null QString when there's an error |
kb9vqf | That's the way Trinity usually does things anyway |
kb9vqf | Note that a null QString is NOT an empty QString |
samelian | but null qstring can meaning that there is no value |
samelian | yes, know |
kb9vqf | See above ;-) |
samelian | "" is empty |
kb9vqf | Right |
kb9vqf | There's your "no value" string |
samelian | QString::null i guess is null |
kb9vqf | Or QString() |
kb9vqf | I vastly prefer QString() |
samelian | but the consistency will be affected anyway |
kb9vqf | No, not really |
samelian | i will must to do |
kb9vqf | Trinity has always done this :) |
samelian | QString result = client->daemonVersion() |
kb9vqf | MutantTurkey: Much better, thanks! |
samelian | if(result.isNull()) qWarning("we have a problem") |
kb9vqf | Right |
kb9vqf | If you look through the code that type of if() is all over the place |
kb9vqf | isNull means there is no sane answer available |
samelian | but, i have another situation |
samelian | client->hasHibernate() |
samelian | which is bool |
samelian | false ca meaning error or not support for hibernate |
kb9vqf | MutantTurkey: Now just add in the release sidebar on the right. It's looking much better than before! |
kb9vqf | samelian: Use an int |
kb9vqf | -1 being the error |
kb9vqf | 0 is false |
kb9vqf | 1 is ture |
kb9vqf | true |
samelian | hmm, too many inconsistencies |
kb9vqf | Once again that's how Trinity code usually handles things |
samelian | if(isnull), if(-1), if(method()) |
kb9vqf | Passing by reference is not used often |
kb9vqf | technically -1 should always be the error case |
kb9vqf | Never 0 |
kb9vqf | So you have if(isnull), if(<0) |
kb9vqf | Those are the two error cases |
kb9vqf | Bool is usually not returned |
kb9vqf | usually it is only an int return value for error |
kb9vqf | There are too many problems with bool |
samelian | this is for plain C, but i'm not sure about C++ |
kb9vqf | C++ still uses int return values for errors |
kb9vqf | A defacto Linux standard is that a negative return is an error |
kb9vqf | The only problem is that you cannot have a negative QString |
kb9vqf | Only a Null one :-) |
samelian | yes |
samelian | and isNull is bool type |
kb9vqf | Unfortuantely that inconsistency runs deep within Qt |
kb9vqf | No way to change it |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: yes i need to figure that out after dinner. |
MutantTurkey | also the side bar will include links and such to web pages |
kb9vqf | Sounds good MutantTurkey |
samelian | is pretty bad to use something like if(1 == client->hasHibernate()) |
samelian | the programmers will assume that hasHibernate is bool |
samelian | i will made a big mistake if will use if(hasHibernate()) |
samelian | because error will treated as true |
kb9vqf | Will it? |
samelian | they will* |
*kb9vqf goes to look up implicit bool conversion |
MutantTurkey | I am also renaming and reorginizing the structure. |
kb9vqf | samelian: Seems you are correct |
*kb9vqf is not sure how to handle that |
*samelian hate to made this kind of design decisions :) |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: everything is a php file and i am consolidating stuff also. one question, is the mailing list generated in php? |
kb9vqf | MutantTurkey: No |
MutantTurkey | :O |
kb9vqf | ezmlm |
kb9vqf | Old script-type stuff |
MutantTurkey | ezmlm? okay well how could we include the header and footer then? |
kb9vqf | I'll have to work on the integration from this end |
kb9vqf | It's a very complicated system |
MutantTurkey | okay. they are just in media/header.php and media/footer.php for them. |
kb9vqf | Sounds good |
MutantTurkey | yep. |
MutantTurkey | I need to get screenshots also, if someone has ones they'd like me to use. |
kb9vqf | Same with the SVN patches, etc. |
kb9vqf | Well, there are the two from the Ubuntu CDs |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: yeah, :/ (which by the way should be reverse sorted) |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: are those good to use? |
kb9vqf | Go ahead |
MutantTurkey | okay |
kb9vqf | I can make some Debian ones as well |
MutantTurkey | I'll make thumbnails and such in a while. |
kb9vqf | Sometime.... :) |
MutantTurkey | the home page is going to be pretty much the 3.5.12 annoucements, a brief introduction links and t he sidebar thing. |
kb9vqf | OK |
MutantTurkey | okay great. I'm off to eat dinner. I'll work more after |
kb9vqf | ttyl |
kb9vqf | samelian: For simple queries such as hasHibernate just return false if there was an error |
kb9vqf | If such a simple query failed then we cannot assume a complex function like hibernate will work |
kb9vqf | The underlying DBUS failure would be caught somewhere else |
samelian | but the user must be announced that hibernate query is not working, but is not because his machine |
kb9vqf | Then you cannot have a bool return |
kb9vqf | Or anything that looks like a bool |
samelian | maybe libkpower have no rights to read upower dbus |
kb9vqf | Just state: This is an int return |
kb9vqf | In the documentation put a warning that if(hasHibernate) will not work |
kb9vqf | and that if(hasHibernate == 1) is required |
kb9vqf | That's the only way to handle it |
samelian | hehe, we assume that programmer will read the docs carefully |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | We have to |
kb9vqf | You can screw up a lot of things with implicit bool conversion |
kb9vqf | I know! |
kb9vqf | Qt4 locks out implicit bool conversion |
kb9vqf | Just do the same thing in your class |
samelian | maybe is better to use bool method(bool * ok), after all |
kb9vqf | NO |
kb9vqf | See above :) |
kb9vqf | We can prohibit the implicit converson |
*kb9vqf forgot until now |
kb9vqf | So the compiler will emit an error message, and the programmer will change it to == 1 |
samelian | aha, you want to forbid using if(hasHibernate()) |
kb9vqf | Yes |
samelian | i'm not sure if is possible |
kb9vqf | It is |
kb9vqf | Qt4 does it |
samelian | bool is pretty same as int |
kb9vqf | In qbytearray |
samelian | i will check it |
kb9vqf | Basically you make the bool() operator private |
kb9vqf | You will probably have to make yourself a return type class |
kb9vqf | Make bool() private |
kb9vqf | but allow int() |
kb9vqf | Seems simple enough to me :)( |
samelian | but if() will not try to use int as condition? |
samelian | or I cand define something like this: |
samelian | typedef { Has = 1 } TypeHas |
samelian | TypeHas hasHibernate() |
kb9vqf | Actually, if will try to use the int for condition only when if(return == 1) is used |
samelian | i see |
kb9vqf | When if runs into the private bool it will halt the compilation |
samelian | ok, I will try to forbid bool conversion |
kb9vqf | That should do it :) |
samelian | the inconsistency remain with int enumerateDevices(deviceList) |
kb9vqf | How so? |
samelian | is not the same with hasHibernate() |
samelian | also, we have double voltage() |
kb9vqf | voltage() cannot be negative |
kb9vqf | That's easy :) |
samelian | but power() can |
samelian | charge/uncharge |
kb9vqf | Hmm |
*kb9vqf doesn't like that |
samelian | charge are positive, uncharge negative |
kb9vqf | I know, but... |
kb9vqf | The assumption is negative values are errors |
samelian | yes, but in this case is a valid value |
kb9vqf | How's this: |
kb9vqf | We have a special return class |
kb9vqf | It contains both the value, and an error code and error string |
kb9vqf | Maybe it even has the convenience function success() |
kb9vqf | so you return TDBUSError |
kb9vqf | the application does if(tdbe.success()) |
kb9vqf | so you return TDBUSReturn |
kb9vqf | sorry |
kb9vqf | the application does if(tdbr.success()) |
kb9vqf | tdbr.value |
kb9vqf | Better yet, the implicit int() operator returns the value |
kb9vqf | Just a thought |
samelian | and value must be overloaded |
kb9vqf | Yes |
samelian | int value() |
samelian | double value() |
kb9vqf | Well, that won't work |
kb9vqf | hang on |
kb9vqf | T value |
kb9vqf | type |
kb9vqf | so KDBUSReturn<float> |
kb9vqf | or KDBUSReturn<int> |
kb9vqf | etc. |
kb9vqf | then T value() returns the value |
samelian | but what about KDBUSReturn<QValueList<TDevices> > value ? :) |
kb9vqf | That's OK |
kb9vqf | Just a but ugly |
samelian | we enter to template hell :) |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | But we've been through most of the other "solutions" |
kb9vqf | It's either consistent or template hell :) |
kb9vqf | inconsistent, rather |
samelian | so, we must choose something unnatural, but consistent |
kb9vqf | yes |
kb9vqf | and for most things consistent is OK |
samelian | like bool hasHibernate(QString &result) |
samelian | sorry |
samelian | bool hasHibernate(bool &result) |
kb9vqf | I HATE that reference to bool |
kb9vqf | I can see all kinds of nastiness |
kb9vqf | hard to trace problems, etc. |
kb9vqf | Segfaults |
kb9vqf | :-P |
samelian | maybe for pointers |
samelian | references are pretty easy to trace |
kb9vqf | OK, here's the naieve programmer's take on that |
kb9vqf | : |
kb9vqf | return hasHibernate(bool error); |
kb9vqf | Spot the problem? |
samelian | this is pretty weird call |
kb9vqf | Hint: it'll crash badly :) |
kb9vqf | Well, my thought is this: |
kb9vqf | The application developer may just ignore the error |
kb9vqf | Not want to deal with it |
kb9vqf | But the function DEMANDS a reference |
kb9vqf | So the easiest way to deal with that demand is the call I posted |
kb9vqf | But it'll crash or not compile, depending on the exact C compiler |
samelian | but this call is completely useless |
samelian | return hasHibernate(bool error); |
samelian | because hasHibenate is defined like this |
kb9vqf | OK, wait |
kb9vqf | I think I flipped the two |
samelian | bool hasHibernate( bool &result ) |
kb9vqf | Your definition may work |
kb9vqf | But it's unnatural |
samelian | yes, as i said :) |
kb9vqf | I expect hasHibernate to tell me if it can hibernate, not if there was an error |
samelian | but is the single easy and consistent option |
kb9vqf | I can see lots of confusion as a result |
samelian | yes, you right |
kb9vqf | Let's go with the template return type |
kb9vqf | Final decision :) |
samelian | bleah, is really ugly :) |
kb9vqf | At least that one will throw compilation errors instead of malfunctioning |
samelian | like this KDBUSReturn<QValueList<TDevices> > |
kb9vqf | I've seen that |
kb9vqf | In kdepim |
samelian | and kdepim is very unstable |
kb9vqf | You can make it prettier like this: |
samelian | and very hard to trace segfault |
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kb9vqf | typedef KDBUSDeviceListReturn KDBUSReturn<QValueList<TDevices>> |
samelian | i think >> will not work |
samelian | >> is not shift? |
kb9vqf | You can nest templates |
samelian | must be > > |
samelian | with space between > |
kb9vqf | Yes of course |
*kb9vqf didn't hit the spacebar hard enough |
kb9vqf | It's even harder to trace a logic error |
kb9vqf | IMHO |
kb9vqf | If you expect hasHibernate to return whether something can hibernate |
kb9vqf | and it returns an error status instead |
samelian | yes |
kb9vqf | At least with the segfault you get a backtrace |
samelian | then bool hasHibernate(bool *ok) |
Borg^Queen | hello humans, AIs and others |
samelian | or |
kb9vqf | And there's my bad call I posted above |
samelian | bool hasHibernate(bool *ok = NULL) |
kb9vqf | ICK ICK ICK |
samelian | if ok is null, i will return no error |
kb9vqf | Instant segfault :) |
samelian | npe |
samelian | i will check it |
kb9vqf | Oh wait, you changed the reference |
MutantTurkey | Borg^Queen: o/ |
kb9vqf | to a pointer |
samelian | if is null, no error |
kb9vqf | Hmm |
kb9vqf | I still see this bad code as a first attempt: |
kb9vqf | bool * error; |
kb9vqf | bool canHibernate = hasHibernate(error);; |
kb9vqf | bool canHibernate = hasHibernate(&error); |
kb9vqf | I don't know |
samelian | the elegant solution can be try { bool hibernate = hasHibernate() } catch(...) { qWarning("we have a problem") } |
samelian | but qt do not use exceptions :| |
kb9vqf | Right |
kb9vqf | I still like the templates |
kb9vqf | Seems to be consistant and flexible |
kb9vqf | Honestly there's much less chance of a stray segfault when passing objects around |
kb9vqf | References and pointers have their place, but when the return type is so small I think they are more trouble than they are worth |
samelian | you proposed a pretty good solution like if(success()) |
samelian | or if(error()) |
kb9vqf | Now think of multithreading though |
kb9vqf | The operation should be atomic |
kb9vqf | And those are not |
samelian | yes, is not |
kb9vqf | I vote for templates and typedefs |
kb9vqf | It becomes very simple then |
samelian | ok, i'm without good solution, so, I agree with you :) |
kb9vqf | :) |
*kb9vqf goes back to troubleshooting mouse events |
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MutantTurkey | samelian: http://96.245.17.6/installation.php :) got it working nicely |
MutantTurkey | it wraps lines (in this case not so well because it wraps based on words and the url is parsed as one word |
kb9vqf | That background color is much nicer than the blue as well ;-) |
MutantTurkey | agreed. |
MutantTurkey | again, that is all for later. |
Borg^Queen | MutantTurkey: cute nick |
Borg^Queen | brb |
MutantTurkey | Borg^Queen: thank you ma'am |
Borg^Queen | :) |
MutantTurkey | :p |
*samelian forgot how to create a C++ template :) |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: does Trinity have any color scheme associated with it? i mean ubuntu has shit brown, fedora i think red. etc |
kb9vqf | Not right now |
kb9vqf | Other than the blue in the logo |
kb9vqf | And white |
MutantTurkey | okay |
samelian | kb9vqf: help me a little with template, if you can |
samelian | template<class T> |
samelian | class TValue { |
samelian | public: |
samelian | TValue(){} |
samelian | T &operator() { return m_value; } |
samelian | int error() const { return m_error; } |
samelian | QString errorString() { return m_errorString; } |
samelian | private: |
samelian | T m_value; |
samelian | int m_error; |
samelian | QString m_errorString; |
samelian | }; |
samelian | I think my operator() is not well defined |
samelian | the compiller cry |
samelian | UPower_TValue.h:38: error: function definition does not declare parameters |
kb9vqf | Which one is line 38? |
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samelian | T &operator() { return m_value; } |
kb9vqf | Well you can't do it that way |
kb9vqf | What are you trying to do with that line? |
kb9vqf | Return the value? |
samelian | reference to m_value |
samelian | for automatic cast |
samelian | i want to do this: |
kb9vqf | Try &T() {return m_value} |
samelian | TValue val = hasHibernate() |
samelian | if(val) qWarning("we have hibernate"); |
samelian | &T() is not working |
samelian | ISO C++ forbids declaration of 'T' with no type |
kb9vqf | What happens without the & |
kb9vqf | So T() {return m_value} |
*kb9vqf does not recall if this can be done with templates |
samelian | i think this is constructor of T |
kb9vqf | T is the type |
kb9vqf | TValue() is the constructor |
samelian | but it T is class, T() is constructor of class |
kb9vqf | For builtin types you can do bool() {return a_bool} |
kb9vqf | IIRC |
kb9vqf | Hang on |
samelian | QString cast to const char* with operator() |
kb9vqf | const char * is special |
kb9vqf | Trust me :) |
samelian | aha |
kb9vqf | Try operator T () { return m_value; } |
kb9vqf | Or operator &T () { return m_value; } |
kb9vqf | ^^ I don't know if that last one is the correct syntax though |
kb9vqf | The first one should be correct |
kb9vqf | Remember that pass-by-reference can be dangerous |
kb9vqf | You may just want to pass the object itself |
kb9vqf | i.e. a copy |
samelian | for sure, I will not return reference |
MutantTurkey | are there Debian CD images with Trinity pre loaded |
MutantTurkey | or is that only kubuntu |
kb9vqf | Someone was working on a Debian CD but I don't think it's finished |
kb9vqf | See the trinity-devel mailing list archives IIRC |
samelian | kb9vqf: seems that &operator T() { return m_value; } is correct way |
kb9vqf | I was wondering about that |
kb9vqf | OK |
*kb9vqf has not had to do that for a long time |
MutantTurkey | http://96.245.17.6/installation.php all finished. |
kb9vqf | May I suggest that the header logo say "Trinity Desktop Environment" instead of just "Trinity"? |
kb9vqf | Otherwise, ignoring the missing right hand side box, it looks good! |
kb9vqf | Err..I guess on the installation page there is no right hand side box |
kb9vqf | So it's fine as-is then, execpt the header suggestion :) |
MutantTurkey | D: |
MutantTurkey | well okay with the header, the reason to keep it shorter is A) we already say Trinity Desktop Environment on the home page as the first header B) it scales better. smaller icon = better for all sized monitors because it can scale down without pushing the list of links out of the way. C) the word trinity isn't even needed really, it could just be the icon. |
MutantTurkey | i took alot of time to think about that one. |
kb9vqf | Well, (and this is just a suggestion, as I did NOT take lots of time to think it through): |
kb9vqf | We could say Trinity Desktop Environment on the top and just shorten it to Trinity on the front page |
MutantTurkey | hmmm |
kb9vqf | Also, people may wonder what "Trinity" is just by itself |
kb9vqf | e.g. if Google points them straight at the install page |
MutantTurkey | yes especially since the front page is actually going to start with an image of the desktop, and under neath say "3.5.12 is out!" and list improvements under that |
MutantTurkey | everything else, will be pushed away. |
kb9vqf | Right |
MutantTurkey | working on this one now http://96.245.17.6/installation_lenny.php |
kb9vqf | I like the overall site layout much better |
MutantTurkey | I need a list of mirrors to add to the working around the problem (i assume we have more than one) |
kb9vqf | I'll handle that |
MutantTurkey | okay |
kb9vqf | I have an internal list here that I can insert automatically ;-) |
MutantTurkey | awesome |
kb9vqf | Thanks again for fixing up the site |
kb9vqf | It looks a heap side better |
MutantTurkey | I am really enjoying this tbh. I have been avoiding the web for a long time. |
MutantTurkey | so getting back into it is fun. |
kb9vqf | Great :) |
MutantTurkey | again, people like clean and simple, easy to navigate. that is crucial. Hopefully this will help sort that all out. |
MutantTurkey | if people like the site, they are more likely to take TrinityDE seriously. |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: i am changing all references of your email address to our mailing list page instead. |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: also sorry, i know your AFK. but I am pretty much done work for tonight. I have converted the lenny 301 page and install page so thats good for today. I'll keep working on it probably monday (tomorrow is very very hectic with band practice and church and super bowl (go steelers!) so I won't be able to do much till then) |
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Piki | hi |
MutantTurkey | hey Piki |
MutantTurkey | Piki: http://96.245.17.6/ what does the top logo say? |
MutantTurkey | i am getting a weird problem from it |
Piki | it's a KDE gear with a T instead of a K, and it says Trinity next to it |
MutantTurkey | hmmmm. now look at: http://96.245.17.6/media/trinitylogo.png |
MutantTurkey | I am calling that image but only Trinity shows up D: |
MutantTurkey | oh nevermind, It was a CSS issue. |
Piki | Trinity Desktop Environment |
Piki | a bit slow, kvirc isn't allowing me to click links for some reason |
MutantTurkey | kvirc is a bit slow for my liking. |
MutantTurkey | a bit to complicated for just an irc client. |
MutantTurkey | irssi is just easier for me to use. |
Piki | a don't like doing things in a CLI, and a konsole is a bit small for IRC for my liking |
MutantTurkey | yeah |
Piki | much prefer konversation, but our repos are still a dependency mess |
MutantTurkey | pidgin works for me also, because i have google chat as well as AIM and IRC |
MutantTurkey | would a Pidgin to Qt Port be favorable? |
Piki | don't really like the way pidgin does irc |
MutantTurkey | yeah It's a bit meh. |
MutantTurkey | but a Trinity version of pidgin would be nice. Qt lacks a good messanging program right? |
Piki | MutantTurkey: considering how popular pidgin is, i'd say it'd be a good idea |
Piki | kopete |
MutantTurkey | yeah. I've looked at the code base not to bad. |
MutantTurkey | It is a glib and gnome mess though |
Piki | but that requires kde |
MutantTurkey | we'd have to clean it up. |
Piki | i'm using kopete right now, rather nice, but apparently the kde4 version doesn't do irc, and the kde3 version doesn't do file transfer |
MutantTurkey | anyway I've gotta split some buds are coming over. |
Piki | i have it setup from gtalk and aim |
MutantTurkey | we can hack in IRC or something. |
MutantTurkey | I'll be back later. or monday |
Piki | ok |
BQ-AFK | gn to all |
samelian | kb9vqf: so far, template based responses working as expected |
samelian | http://paste.lug.ro/131038 |
Xu_R | samelian: making good progress, I see. :) |
samelian | hehe |
Xu_R | go samelian! we're rooting for ya! :D |
samelian | unfortunately, because i'm busy with dbus stuff, cmake port stalling |
Piki | i'll hopefully be rooting android at some point |
Xu_R | samelian: well, I'm getting stalled on the RPM stuff right now too, so we're about the same :P |
Xu_R | I hate real-life doings. xD |
samelian | :) |
Piki | i'm still stalled on packaging tde here |
Xu_R | samelian: see, I'll even convince my bot to root for you. |
Xu_R | well... |
Xu_R | if I can get my bot to say something xD |
Piki | Xu_R: eggdrop with some tcl scripts ;-) |
[lindaemon] | Go samelian! |
samelian | :) |
Xu_R | there we go :P |
Xu_R | just gotta love supybot, it's the best IRC bot eva :D |
samelian | I think I need some sleep :) |
samelian | gn all |
Piki | Xu_R: you like soupy stuff |
Xu_R | wiat... you're +2 right samelian? |
Xu_R | god damn, go to sleep samelian! no overworking! XD |
Xu_R | Piki: maybe. xD |
Piki | i don't really like eggs, but i loved my grandmother's eggdrop soup ;-) |
Xu_R | Piki: GAH. One minute BQ-AFK is on #unitylinux, next minute she's gone. damn lurker. |
*Xu_R notes to self to kick her the next time she gets on IRC |
Piki | Xu_R: go in #arklinux and type "? xu_r" (include the space, not the quotes) |
Xu_R | Piki: I saw, don't worry. I've been in there even after you banned me from there. XD To be exact, maybe like a day after. |
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Piki | LOL just found a video where a couple 5 yo girls steal a car from a guy with a broken leg and run over his legs |
*kb9vqf doesn't think that's very funny |
Piki | kb9vqf: eh? you know it's not real, right? |
kb9vqf | No I didn't |
kb9vqf | Thanks for clarifying :) |
Piki | well, how can a couple 5yo's steal a car? |
kb9vqf | I dunno |
kb9vqf | Guy left the car on and in drive? |
kb9vqf | Anyway, getting waaayy off topic here ;-) |
Piki | then how do the girls get the gas? |
kb9vqf | Another Qt4 bug I wonder? |
kb9vqf | Qt automatically grabs the mouse when a mouse button is pressed inside a widget; the widget will continue to receive mouse events until the last mouse button is released. |
kb9vqf | That's not what I see :-P |
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Svedrin | hey there... I'm currently mirroring trinity for debian squeeze here: http://debmirror.funzt-halt.net/ |
Svedrin | if anyone wants to use the mirror, feel free |
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edakiri | how can the font system (and fontconfig?) be told to find typefaces which are newly copied into share/fonts/ ? |
edakiri | restarting once again. |
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*Strangelv has never gotten fonts to work that aren't installed to his user directory |
Strangelv | "Thu system level save has, as best I can tell, never worked, all the way back to 5.04 |
Strangelv | "for Kubuntu |
Strangelv | "Can't recall my mileage with Libranet/Debian. It's been too long, but I don't remember having gotten it to work there, either |
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MutantTurkey | o/ |
edakiri | Does trinity work in combination with Debian sid/unstable? |
edakiri | I'll let you know. |
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TokRa | toxic_devil :) |
toxic_devil | TokRa: привет |
toxic_devil | TokRa: меня скоро ребята убьют((( |
TokRa | За что? :) |
toxic_devil | TokRa: самелиан cmake не дает((( |
toxic_devil | ребята требуют чтоб в свн все залили |
toxic_devil | TokRa: а самелиан чо то мутит говорит неготово еше все |
toxic_devil | а сам же юзает |
toxic_devil | а нам не дает |
toxic_devil | ппц |
toxic_devil | :'( |
TokRa | Дождись, пока будет готово |
toxic_devil | TokRa: дык у них ваше непойми чо происходит |
toxic_devil | каждый разраб чо то пилит в углу |
toxic_devil | они как не вместе разрабатывают |
TokRa | Вот поэтому я и переползла на Mint и Gnone |
TokRa | ^_^ |
toxic_devil | да куте хочется |
toxic_devil | а кде выпустили версии 4.6 |
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toxic_devil | ТАКОЕ ГОВНО |
toxic_devil | на уши не оденешь |
TokRa | "плазма не падает" (c) |
TokRa | Последнее время мир куда-то катится |
toxic_devil | TokRa: бгг |
toxic_devil | у них у разработчиков тринити вообше кто ниь главный есть7 |
TokRa | Да, преподобный Timothy Pearson, он же kb9vqf |
TokRa | Покруче того самого Патрика (из Слаквари) будет |
edakiri | it seems to work as before, except for system notification sounds. |
TokRa | К сожалению, я не знаю ни одного вменяемого аналога KMail (из-за поддержки Maildir и настроек) и Kate редактора. |
edakiri | sound from trinity itself works |
TokRa | toxic_devil: потому и придерживаюсь KDE |
toxic_devil | TokRa: блин да мне языковой барьер мешает,я понимаю что они пиут,а сам не могу предложения составлять(( |
TokRa | Google Translate :) |
toxic_devil | TokRa: ну ну гугл транслейт |
toxic_devil | не с русским языком я тя умоляю |
toxic_devil | ))) |
toxic_devil | TokRa: а насчет kmail и kate не знаю что ты в них нашла такого |
toxic_devil | я привык nano пользоваться |
TokRa | kmail: поддержка Maildir |
toxic_devil | а почта у меня через джаббер транспорт прикрученно |
toxic_devil | * подумывает убить samelian |
MutantTurkey | o/ |
toxic_devil | MutantTurkey: what? |
MutantTurkey | just saying hi |
toxic_devil | MutantTurkey: oh |
MutantTurkey | Does anyone here use slackware? |
MutantTurkey | o/ is a person waving the o is his head, the / his arm. |
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toxic_devil | MutantTurkey: i don't know |
MutantTurkey | ah |
toxic_devil | MutantTurkey: You see KDE 4.6 ?? |
toxic_devil | It's |
toxic_devil | It"s |
toxic_devil | this is fucking DE |
MutantTurkey | I have not seen it |
MutantTurkey | I have seen KDE 4.5 a whil e ago |
toxic_devil | KDE 4.6 |
toxic_devil | Is not DE |
toxic_devil | It Is bug report |
toxic_devil | ))) |
MutantTurkey | hahaha |
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*Strangelv ponders pondering the procticality of forking TDE or even KDE 4 avay from Qt altogether, but lacks sufficiently detailed knowledge. He's also falling asleep. |
samelian | actually qt is very nice framework |
Strangelv | "Qt3 or Qt4 |
samelian | i like both of them |
Strangelv | Are you working ot TQt? |
samelian | the concepts are pretty similar |
*Strangelv is mostly familiar with people here complaining about how stripped down Qt4 is |
samelian | nope, only kb9vqf working on tqt |
samelian | my tasks are cmake port and developing upower interface |
Strangelv | "My task is bottlenecked by find out where the art is, and I've been sidetracked by what might qualify as my day job |
edakiri | Strangelv: i pondered that. kb9vqfand someone ( samelian?) said it were clearly infeasible without great manpower. |
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MutantTurkey | hey |
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same_ | kb9vqf: http://www.thel.ro/upower/classUPower_1_1TClient.html |
same_ | so far, I can suspend() and get upower properties |
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kb9vqf | Nice! |
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kb9vqf | I tracked down the popup menu mouse event issue after much hassle and heartache |
kb9vqf | Seems that Qt4 did this: |
kb9vqf | if ((windowType() == Qt::Popup) && rect().contains(pos) && 0) |
kb9vqf | Note the && 0 |
kb9vqf | A nice undocumented change |
kb9vqf | :-P |
kb9vqf | See why I hate Qt4? |
kb9vqf | It took 30 lines of code to fix that |
kb9vqf | In TQt that is |
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Xu_R | kb9vqf: Do you think Nokia is smart enough to keep the Qt4 -> Qt5 change minimal? |
Xu_R | makes me wonder, given the community response to the Qt3 -> Qt4 change |
kb9vqf | Dunno |
kb9vqf | I think it depends on their new cell phones |
kb9vqf | And their requirements |
*kb9vqf does NOT trust Nokia |
kb9vqf | Not after Qt4 :) |
kb9vqf | On the plus side, we should have a few years to make TQt work with Qt5 |
kb9vqf | If they offer a preview for a while like they did with Qt4 |
kb9vqf | That is waaayyy in the future I hope :) |
Xu_R | that would be a nice future indeed |
Xu_R | kb9vqf: when you mean new cell phones, i'm guessing meego, right? |
kb9vqf | Whatever the latest craze is |
kb9vqf | At some point they will go "Oh no, Qt doesn't support our competitor's latest input gestures" |
kb9vqf | "Let's completely change Qt again!" |
kb9vqf | :-P |
*kb9vqf can be rather cynical |
kb9vqf | Seriously though, I don't know what the Qt5 trigger will be |
kb9vqf | All I know is that it is likely to happen sometime in the future |
kb9vqf | And it'll probably be based on some tech fad (Qt4 was transparent widgets AFAIK) |
kb9vqf | That and Nokia not wanting to maintain a lot of the Qt3 features |
Xu_R | lol |
Xu_R | it's like they're oblivious to all the community hatred around them. |
same_ | maybe qt will follow linux kernel versioning style :) |
samelian | i mean, will remain qt 4.x.x |
samelian | like kernel 2.6.x |
Xu_R | samelian: the way they're throwing out releases it's only a matter of time before they hit 5.0 |
samelian | will see |
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samelian | however, qt4 is over qt3 in networking support |
samelian | also some integrated features like webkit and dbus |
samelian | kb9vqf: what is "&& 0"? |
samelian | seems useless condition |
samelian | because return always false |
samelian | kb9vqf: how we will integrate libkupower to kdelibs? |
samelian | we will create a directory named "backend"? |
Space_Man | <samelian> kb9vqf: what is "&& 0"? |
Space_Man | I agree |
Space_Man | but I'm not much of a coder |
K`zan | Binary and with zero? SWAG :) |
K`zan | Essentially would be setting whatever to zero. |
K`zan | = 0 would make more sense if that is what it is doing... |
K`zan | Ah, one gotta love show off programmers :-). |
*K`zan refuses to ever admit I was ever one of those ;-). |
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kb9vqf | samelian: exactly |
kb9vqf | They shut down that conditional |
kb9vqf | Without documenting the change or bothering to remove it completely!! |
samelian | hehe |
kb9vqf | kdelibs/tdevices/backend/tupower |
samelian | if you don't pay enough attention, you can miss this kind of changes |
kb9vqf | Oh yes |
kb9vqf | Two days |
kb9vqf | :-P |
samelian | wow |
kb9vqf | It was VERy hard to trace |
kb9vqf | That conditional is buried within the event handler core |
samelian | kb9vqf: why tdevices? |
kb9vqf | Hang on |
kb9vqf | Let's change that to: |
samelian | i think something like this: |
kb9vqf | kdelibs/tcomputer/backend/tupower |
kb9vqf | http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/bin/view/Developers/TUComputerAPI |
samelian | kdelibs/backends/{upower,udev,networkmanager,sound}, etc |
kb9vqf | OK |
samelian | you agree with me? |
kb9vqf | Well, not really |
kb9vqf | I would like to keep the hardware stuff in its own directory |
kb9vqf | Otherwise kdelibs will become a mess, fast |
samelian | i think backend will be the layer between trinity and 3rd party stuff |
kb9vqf | You'll have to move some other folders around |
kb9vqf | libkrandr, etc. |
kb9vqf | Also, I'm not sure |
kb9vqf | kdelibs itself is one big interface to 3rd party stuff |
kb9vqf | How about kdelibs/hardware/ |
kb9vqf | kdelibs/hardware/backends |
kb9vqf | kdelibs/hardware/frontends |
samelian | depends what meaning "hardware" |
samelian | networkmanager is not hardware |
kb9vqf | Yes it is |
kb9vqf | Well, it interfaces to the network card |
samelian | sort of, but not exactly |
kb9vqf | so kdelibs/devices/backends |
kb9vqf | and kdelibs/devices/frontends |
samelian | so, backends will be direct link to 3rd party stuff |
samelian | and frontend the API for trinity developers, right? |
samelian | so the layers will be:P |
samelian | : |
samelian | application -> frondend -> backend -> 3rd party |
samelian | in upower case will be: |
samelian | kpowersave -> frontend -> backend -> dbus |
samelian | or |
samelian | kpowersave -> frontend -> backend -> dbus -> upower |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | Exactly |
kb9vqf | We'll move libkrandr to devices/frontends |
samelian | sound logical to me |
kb9vqf | Since that library is the public interfaces to XRandR |
samelian | xrandr cannot be accesed via dbus? |
kb9vqf | No |
kb9vqf | Direct Xorg calls only |
samelian | i see |
kb9vqf | It's a very low level API |
kb9vqf | :) |
samelian | ok, not matter |
samelian | for high level developer no matter anyway |
kb9vqf | frontends contains all libraries that are supposed to be used in Trinity applications |
kb9vqf | backends should not be used outside of the frontend librariew |
kb9vqf | libraries |
kb9vqf | It might be a good idea to make the backend classes private |
samelian | sure, because its API can be changed |
kb9vqf | And then friend the frontend libraries |
samelian | hmm, will be complicated |
samelian | we can include something like this: |
samelian | #ifndef BACKEND_DEVELOPER |
kb9vqf | Sure |
kb9vqf | Like the old acknowleding the DBUS API is unstable |
samelian | #error this interface should be used just be backed developers |
samelian | yes |
kb9vqf | Works for me! |
kb9vqf | And we'll just reject applications that set BACKEND_DEVELOPER ;- |
kb9vqf | ;-) |
samelian | hehe |
samelian | yes |
kb9vqf | More Qt4 fun....CoordinateMode::CoordDevice (the default CoordinateMode) is just gone. No replacement, and the Qt4 replacement current functions utilize CoordinateMode::CoordPainter instead. |
Xu_R | o_o |
Xu_R | it's like they threw all this stuff in the trash because it didn't look nice. |
kb9vqf | Hehe |
kb9vqf | Lots of fun breakage in scrolling views because of that |
kb9vqf | I'm reimplementing it as usual in TQt.... |
samelian | sometime I think that maybe is better to enhance Qt3 and that's all |
kb9vqf | No |
kb9vqf | The Qt4 graphics engine is better |
kb9vqf | But has fewer features |
samelian | maybe these enhacements can be backported to qt3 |
kb9vqf | No, not really |
kb9vqf | The graphics engine is a complete rewrite |
samelian | aha, i do not dig so deep |
kb9vqf | I actually have kdesktop, kicker etc. running under Qt4 with Tqt |
kb9vqf | I'm just trying to stamp out the remaining painting problems |
kb9vqf | Believe it or not, over my VNC connection it actually has pretty good performance |
kb9vqf | Comparable to Qt3 over VNC |
Xu_R | nice. |
kb9vqf | So I think the slow bloat is actually in KDE4 itself, not Qt4 |
kb9vqf | Just a hunch :-) |
Xu_R | probably |
samelian | this is my impression too |
samelian | because skype and qt creator are pretty fast |
*kb9vqf is glad he is not alone in that impression |
kb9vqf | Ahh, KDE4....the ugly stepsister of the KDE series |
kb9vqf | :) |
samelian | haha |
samelian | i do not used it more 10 minutes |
kb9vqf | I struggled with it for a few days |
kb9vqf | Then gave up |
kb9vqf | I wan't getting any work done |
samelian | i hope that more developers wil join to trinity team after we modernize background |
kb9vqf | I hope so too |
kb9vqf | Hence the Qt4 interface |
samelian | i enjoy very much programming upower interface |
kb9vqf | Glad to hear it :) |
kb9vqf | I also enjoyed the krandr interface back when |
kb9vqf | TQt....not so much |
kb9vqf | It's massive |
samelian | hehe |
samelian | massive task become borring |
kb9vqf | Now I need a way to reverse the Qt4 deviceTransform() matrix |
kb9vqf | Of course, being Qt4, the didn't provide an easy way |
kb9vqf | Grrrr |
samelian | i have this impression making cmake |
samelian | copy/paste, copy/paste, .... |
samelian | borring |
kb9vqf | Hehe |
kb9vqf | But quite necessary |
Xu_R | you know, it makes me wonder, did they strip down Qt4 to make the library smaller? O_o |
samelian | yes, it is |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | Smaller and easier for them to maintain |
samelian | qt4 are actually prety well modularized |
Xu_R | ah. |
Xu_R | well, then KDE4 made Qt4 look like crap. |
kb9vqf | Qt4 is a nice library |
samelian | indeed |
kb9vqf | It's just not as powerful as Qt3 was |
kb9vqf | In the core areas |
samelian | i like qt4 because I can write servers with it |
kb9vqf | It's obviously designed for cell phones on the UI end as well |
kb9vqf | So kind of an odd mix |
samelian | without gui legacy |
Xu_R | lol |
Xu_R | i see. |
kb9vqf | The ONLY problem I have with Qt3 is that it is not LGPL |
samelian | few years ago I write an tiff/faxview with qt3 |
samelian | maybe I will revive it |
kb9vqf | TQt port it :) |
samelian | sure, is written in pure qt |
samelian | http://qfaxreader.sourceforge.net/ |
kb9vqf | Neat! |
samelian | kfax was not enough when I used faxes, a century ago :) |
kb9vqf | Hehe |
kb9vqf | The fax macine just....won't....die. |
Xu_R | xD |
samelian | i think I will write some kparts |
samelian | then a shell similar to okular |
kb9vqf | Sometime after TQt for Qt4 is done we will need to replace KHTML's innards with WebKit |
samelian | but will be available for qt4 only, i guess |
kb9vqf | Right |
kb9vqf | That's the main reason for the Qt4 interface actually |
kb9vqf | Is to gain acces to peripheral classes like that |
kb9vqf | They added power in those areas, but removed it in the core |
kb9vqf | :-P |
kb9vqf | Like I said, they seem to have tailored it for their cell phones and apps |
kb9vqf | samelian: OK, I'm getting fed up |
kb9vqf | You have Qt4 experience, right? |
samelian | more or less :) |
kb9vqf | How in the world can I reverse the QPainter device mapping?!?? |
samelian | i wrote few apps with qt4 |
kb9vqf | I need to undo a QTransform that utilized QPainter::deviceTransform() |
kb9vqf | So I need to go from device coordinates to painter coordinates |
samelian | hmm, i do not reach so low level |
kb9vqf | Well, the lower levels is where much of the power is missing |
kb9vqf | That might explain why some developers don't miss Qt3 |
kb9vqf | Just a thought :) |
kb9vqf | I think I may have it... |
kb9vqf | There is a poorly documented inverted() function that MAY do what I need for 2D work only |
kb9vqf | Time will tell :) |
*Piki has joined #trinity-desktop |
Piki | hi |
Xu_R | kb9vqf: sorry, going to disturb this channel for a few moments |
Xu_R | #startmeeting Test Meetbot |
[lindaemon] | Meeting started Mon Feb 7 01:50:54 2011 UTC. The chair is Xu_R. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
[lindaemon] | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. |
Xu_R | test test |
Xu_R | #endmeeting |
*kb9vqf notes that you can use a test channel |
kb9vqf | e.g. #0987970345345 |
Xu_R | lol. |
Xu_R | (trillian is fking up on my comp) |
Xu_R | !deletemeeting #trinity-desktop freenode false |
[lindaemon] | Xu_R: Deleted: meeting on (#trinity-desktop, freenode). |
Xu_R | ok, done disturbing here |
Xu_R | :P |
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Piki | that was... disturbing. isn't trillian a proprietary win-only client? and why do we need a meeting? lol (j/k on the meeting) |
Xu_R | Piki: .-. |
Xu_R | and yes |
<kick channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="kb9vqf" time="2011-02-07T01:31:00Z">[lindaemon]</kick> |
*[lindaemon] has joined #trinity-desktop |
Xu_R | ... |
Xu_R | lemme get it out. lol. |
*[lindaemon] has left #trinity-desktop |
kb9vqf | Hehe |
kb9vqf | One bot is bad enough |
kb9vqf | :) |
Xu_R | XD |
Xu_R | it's the war of the bots! XD |
kb9vqf | Except tbottu has chanop |
Piki | tbottu: what is [lindaemon]? |
tbottu | Piki: Sorry, I've no idea what '[lindaemon]' is. |
kb9vqf | tbottu: what is lindaemon |
tbottu | kb9vqf: hmm... I think lindaemon is a nasty competitor bot, rarely heard since I banished it from the solar system |
Xu_R | kb9vqf: pfft who cares about ops. xD |
kb9vqf | kickban anyone? XD |
kb9vqf | j/k |
Xu_R | LOL, and then it crashes my server. xD |
Xu_R | kb9vqf: do not think of trying that XD |
kb9vqf | I'm not evil :) |
Xu_R | lol |
Xu_R | riggghhhhhhhtttttttt.... xD |
Piki | 999! |
*kb9vqf uses Darth Vader voice |
Xu_R | xD |
Piki | Use the Source young Xu_R! Use the Source! |
Xu_R | go, shoo, back to your tqt porting! i've got chem and precal hw to finish ;) |
kb9vqf | Not on my channel you don't ;-) |
*kb9vqf runs and hides |
Xu_R | kb9vqf: yes, go, run RUNNNN XD or I'll go azn on you. :P |
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<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="kb9vqf" time="2011-02-07T02:56:11Z">+o tbottu </mode> |
MutantTurkey | o/ |
Piki | a/ |
Piki | e/ |
Piki | i/ |
Piki | u/ |
MutantTurkey | whats up |
Piki | not much |
Piki | just adding in the rest of the vowels |
Piki | ;-) |
Piki | finally seeing my g/f ^.^ |
Piki | first time in many months |
Piki | we're both excited |
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<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="kb9vqf" time="2011-02-07T04:08:52Z">+o tbottu </mode> |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: so i am having trouble with this side bar |
kb9vqf | OK |
kb9vqf | What kind of trouble? |
MutantTurkey | i'll get some help from samelian tomorrow though |
MutantTurkey | I just don't know how to align it properly, He surely knows how |
kb9vqf | He probably knows more than I do about that ;-) |
MutantTurkey | :-P probably |
kb9vqf | I'm C/C++/php/etc. |
MutantTurkey | anyway I've got class tomorrow at 9am so i gotta sleepy |
MutantTurkey | I am all C i don't know anything else. |
kb9vqf | I just never got into CSS |
MutantTurkey | enough scripting, sed, awk to get around too |
MutantTurkey | anyway cya round |
kb9vqf | ttyl |
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*Piki has joined #trinity-desktop |
Piki | hi |
*MutantTurkey has joined #trinity-desktop |
MutantTurkey | o/ |
Piki | a/ |
Piki | e/ |
Piki | i/ |
Piki | u/ |
Piki | y/ too |
Piki | anyway, must go, need to get a hair cut, can't be looking like a scruffy hippy for my g/f tomorrow ;-) |
MutantTurkey | :) |
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Xu_R|School | anyone alive here? :P |
Xu_R|School | (never including me...) |
Space_Man | hi Xu_R|School |
Space_Man | :) |
*Strangelv belatedly waves |
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toxic_devil | hi all |
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Piki | hi |
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MutantTurkey | o/ samelian? |
Xu_R | hey MutantTurkey :D |
Xu_R | how's the site design coming along? |
MutantTurkey | well. |
MutantTurkey | actually not at all |
MutantTurkey | I have hit a major roadblock |
MutantTurkey | I cannot figure out how to make a side bar like kb9vqf wanted |
Xu_R | D: |
MutantTurkey | yeah D: |
Xu_R | oh noes... |
MutantTurkey | I am waiting to talk to samelian, who has some css knowledge |
MutantTurkey | you can see the current stuff online at my IP address. |
Xu_R | ping same_ |
MutantTurkey | that is samelian? |
same_ | Xu_R: pong |
MutantTurkey | currently: thttp://96.245.17.6/ |
MutantTurkey | http://96.245.17.6/ |
MutantTurkey | the front page is going to be fully reworked, mostly to show off 3.5.12 and have a screen shot |
MutantTurkey | so a screen should would be welcome |
Xu_R | :D |
MutantTurkey | do you like the design so far/ |
MutantTurkey | ah. that expplains much |
Xu_R | MutantTurkey: yes! yes I do! :D |
Xu_R | MutantTurkey: hmm... why a sidebar? Is the top not enough? |
MutantTurkey | excellent |
MutantTurkey | Xu_R: there are more sub links, unless we should come up with a better place to put them |
MutantTurkey | like, installation notes, CD images, bug tracking, SVN feed, project files, the roadmap nightly builds |
Xu_R | ah. the side bar should be only a short-term solution unless we can make it fit in... because otherwise it kinda makes the site like the old one except with css. |
MutantTurkey | maybe a second sub bar |
MutantTurkey | not at all |
Xu_R | the second sub bar sounds like a good idea. |
MutantTurkey | more of a side bar like, http://archlinux.org |
Xu_R | MutantTurkey: OH. I see. That works out then. |
MutantTurkey | yes. |
MutantTurkey | i would like a sub bar |
MutantTurkey | maybe that is a good proposition |
samelian | MutantTurkey: you can do this in two ways |
samelian | position: absolute |
samelian | or floating divs |
MutantTurkey | which do you think is better? |
MutantTurkey | i would like to have it best formatted for all size screens, large and small |
MutantTurkey | that is my major concern |
samelian | the right side can have fixed width |
MutantTurkey | isn't fixed with to be avoided |
samelian | MutantTurkey: http://www.barelyfitz.com/screencast/html-training/css/positioning/ |
MutantTurkey | is foxycode a frequent here? |
MutantTurkey | Ricky Thompson |
MutantTurkey | http://96.245.17.6/TODO.txt |
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DarthPenguin | gn to all |
MutantTurkey | Xu_R: what about this (sorry it is rather bad right now) <ul id="list"> |
MutantTurkey | <li><a href="http://apt.pearsoncomputing.net/" title="Package Database">Packages</a></li> |
MutantTurkey | <li><a href="./" title="Community forums">Forums</a></li> |
MutantTurkey | <li><a href="./wiki" title="Community documentation">Wiki</a></li> |
MutantTurkey | <li><a href="http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=ALL" title="Report and track bugs">Bugs</a></li> |
MutantTurkey | <li><a href="http://websvn.kde.org/branches/trinity/" title="Web SVN Access">SVN</a></li> |
MutantTurkey | <li><a href="./mailinglists" title="Mailing Lists">Mailing Lists</a></li> |
MutantTurkey | <li><a href="donate.php" title="Donate">Donate</a></li> |
MutantTurkey | </ul> |
MutantTurkey | oh sorry |
MutantTurkey | D: wrong buffer |
MutantTurkey | sorry for flooding |
MutantTurkey | http://96.245.17.6/ |
MutantTurkey | i have tried to make a sub bar sort of |
Xu_R | MutantTurkey: not bad, not bad. :) |
Xu_R | can we keep it to the right side, right under the main bar? |
Xu_R | that way it seems to be in alignment. |
MutantTurkey | i am not sure yet |
MutantTurkey | it is quite ugly right now |
MutantTurkey | but i am going to finish watching this movie i started earlier, then take another crack at it |
Xu_R | good idea, go relax :) |
MutantTurkey | alright ready to get cracking |
MutantTurkey | Xu_R: check this out 96.245.17.6` |
MutantTurkey | Xu_R: check this out 96.245.17.6 |
MutantTurkey | http://96.245.17.6/index.php |
Xu_R | MutantTurkey: in php now? nice. |
MutantTurkey | yes |
MutantTurkey | do you like the look |
MutantTurkey | ? |
Xu_R | yes, indeeed. |
MutantTurkey | i added the sub bar |
Xu_R | the sub bar actually fits like that. good job :) |
MutantTurkey | it is doing a weird problem, where it seems to not go all the way 100% width, but if i put -15px it fits D: |
MutantTurkey | i'll ask samelian about that |
MutantTurkey | but i think its very nice looking |
Xu_R | -15 px lol |
Xu_R | that is strange |
MutantTurkey | yes |
MutantTurkey | i think it is getting pushed by something i cannot figure it out |
MutantTurkey | i'll start looking now |
MutantTurkey | Xu_R: fixed it :D 96.245.17.6/ |
MutantTurkey | no more -15px. it should be working well now |
Xu_R | niceee |
MutantTurkey | yes |
MutantTurkey | well. |
MutantTurkey | enough for today :p |
Xu_R | hehe. getting late. |
MutantTurkey | indeed |
MutantTurkey | quite tired |
kb9vqf | Nice job! |
kb9vqf | Can you add a "Screenshots" tab? |
kb9vqf | Tomorrow that is :) |
MutantTurkey | yes sir |
MutantTurkey | trying to convert more of your pages also, I need a full list of all the pages, you said you left some out? |
Xu_R | anyone wanna ping me tmrw like crazy around 1350 telling me to move my lazy butt and finish up trinity rpms? I've been procrastinating for a few days D: |
MutantTurkey | D: |
kb9vqf | MutantTurkey: Well, the other pages are dynamically generated |
kb9vqf | I'll have to deal with those here |
kb9vqf | Mailing lists and such |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: hmmm, but you could easily modify them to add the stylization right? |
kb9vqf | Yes |
MutantTurkey | right makes sense |
MutantTurkey | okay |
kb9vqf | But I can't go sending you the scripts that generate those pages ;-) |
kb9vqf | Sensitive stuff there |
Xu_R | lol oooh, what do we have here? :P |
MutantTurkey | indeed. |
kb9vqf | They're firewalled and on a different machine |
kb9vqf | No hacking allowed :) |
MutantTurkey | also i noticed your SVN patches list is generated fine, but should be reversed. |
Xu_R | xD |
kb9vqf | Yes, you mentioned that earlier |
MutantTurkey | people like to see the most recent events rather than ones in 2008 |
MutantTurkey | oh okay good |
kb9vqf | when you send over the new website files please remind me |
MutantTurkey | right. |
*kb9vqf has a terrible memory |
MutantTurkey | I've got a todo going |
kb9vqf | Great :) |
MutantTurkey | http://96.245.17.6/TODO.txt |
MutantTurkey | so I'll add that |
kb9vqf | OK |
kb9vqf | I'm going to put up the IRC logs as well at some point |
MutantTurkey | excellent |
MutantTurkey | you log them? |
kb9vqf | That's tbottu's primary function |
MutantTurkey | with tbottu right? |
MutantTurkey | supybot? |
kb9vqf | mozbot |
MutantTurkey | D: |
kb9vqf | So I can do cool things like this |
kb9vqf | But 67 |
kb9vqf | Bug 67 |
tbottu | Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=67 cri, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESO WORKSFORME, Errors while installing kde 3.5 |
MutantTurkey | use supy bot they are really nice. |
MutantTurkey | oh well |
Xu_R | lol |
MutantTurkey | supy can do stuff like this |
MutantTurkey | !google blah blah blah |
Xu_R | supybot also supports bugzilla, and there's also MeetBot :D |
MutantTurkey | or !wiki blah blah |
kb9vqf | Seems all my design decisions are suspect, hmmm? ;-) |
MutantTurkey | !weather zipcode |
MutantTurkey | !xkcd reference |
Xu_R | MutantTurkey: I'm not bringing [lindaemon] in here for you to demonstrate |
kb9vqf | Actually mozbot can do that stuff too |
MutantTurkey | :D |
Xu_R | kb9vqf resents that bot. xD |
kb9vqf | I don't want to allow it too |
kb9vqf | I don't want to allow it to |
Xu_R | lol |
MutantTurkey | one thing that i think you should add is link headers |
kb9vqf | In the USA we have very strict laws |
MutantTurkey | because I'd like to know if the link is suspicious and such? |
kb9vqf | Link headers? |
MutantTurkey | like |
MutantTurkey | for example |
MutantTurkey | look at my link: http://google.com |
MutantTurkey | (09:59:05 PM) phrik: Title: Google (at google.com) |
kb9vqf | Would be nice, BUT: |
kb9vqf | In the USA we have very strict laws |
MutantTurkey | :[ i always found that handy |
MutantTurkey | right... not in PA xD |
kb9vqf | If it looks like my server is going after suspect content I can go to jail |
kb9vqf | In an extreme case |
MutantTurkey | ah |
MutantTurkey | well lets avoid foolishness then and just stick with logging |
kb9vqf | So, I don't want my servers going after outside content :) |
MutantTurkey | word. |
Xu_R | good idea. |
MutantTurkey | anyway, I'm off to bed. more work to be done tomorrow. |
kb9vqf | OK, thanks :) |
MutantTurkey | i'm done class around 12:00 so I should be floating around and such periodically. |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: also, quick question, what web server do you use? |
Xu_R | kb9vqf: does tbottu have a nice alarm function that allows it to ping me annoyingly around 1500? I'm back home by then |
Xu_R | I need to stop procrastinating :P |
kb9vqf | MutantTurkey: A hardened Apache |
kb9vqf | Xu_R: I don't know :-P |
MutantTurkey | D: apache. |
Xu_R | MutantTurkey: /me uses lighttpd ftw lol |
MutantTurkey | apache seems to hate me no matter what i do to it. |
kb9vqf | Hey, stop bashing :D |
MutantTurkey | Xu_R: samsies |
Xu_R | :D |
kb9vqf | You just don't know how to configure it :) |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: lighttpd is great, youtue even uses it! |
MutantTurkey | nice and light |
Xu_R | lol |
MutantTurkey | fast and really scalable and deals with traffic well |
Xu_R | let's not gang up on poor kb9vqf now XD |
MutantTurkey | relevent link http://www.lighttpd.net/ |
kb9vqf | Apache is non-negotiable |
kb9vqf | I host lots of websites |
kb9vqf | For many, many hears |
kb9vqf | years that is |
Xu_R | lol |
MutantTurkey | I know, i was just mentioning it. |
kb9vqf | OK |
Xu_R | the experienced love apache :) |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | An old trusted friend |
MutantTurkey | the greatest part about open source, is the different options |
Xu_R | choices :D |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: old trusted friend? my PIII. |
MutantTurkey | that baby is still chuggin along perfectly. |
*kb9vqf has a PII |
Xu_R | XD |
kb9vqf | Of course I tend to use my 4 core Opteron instead :) |
Xu_R | woah, I beat all of you then? |
Xu_R | I have a pentium that still boots into win98 xD |
MutantTurkey | D: 4 core opteron |
MutantTurkey | sounds magical |
Xu_R | that i need to throw away...sooner...or...later (parents are starting to complain) |
kb9vqf | Does having a 486SX chip laying around count? :-P |
MutantTurkey | i have a intel atom ._. |
MutantTurkey | the joke of the CPU world. |
Xu_R | true that. |
kb9vqf | yuck |
kb9vqf | Upgrade my man! |
MutantTurkey | @30W Peak i don't complain though. |
kb9vqf | I guess |
kb9vqf | :-P |
Xu_R | wow. |
MutantTurkey | exactly |
Xu_R | lol. |
MutantTurkey | i figure i could run 10 boxes for the same as a regular box. |
kb9vqf | Yeah, but nothing beats an Opteron for raw FLOPS |
MutantTurkey | i mean the only reason it is 30 not around 20ish is because i have a hard drive finally, used to use a CF (slot on board) as my main board |
MutantTurkey | some of those OMAP boards are coming really close |
MutantTurkey | well, not a single one, but at 5W they are pretty powerful. |
kb9vqf | Yes, FLOPS/Watt the're great |
MutantTurkey | mhm :D |
MutantTurkey | intel atom has very low computational power |
MutantTurkey | it does very little |
kb9vqf | But to make an equivalent machine would take a warehouse full :-) |
kb9vqf | And uses very little power |
kb9vqf | I dunno |
kb9vqf | I have a Via fanless |
kb9vqf | Never could get it to do very much |
MutantTurkey | via is way better |
MutantTurkey | ARM is where it is at |
kb9vqf | Hey, maybe we need to see about building Trinity on ARM |
kb9vqf | :) |
MutantTurkey | this thing is a great server though! |
kb9vqf | For basic tasks I'm sure |
MutantTurkey | yes. |
kb9vqf | Try hosting QuickBuild |
Xu_R | hm... Trinity on ARM. |
kb9vqf | ;-) |
MutantTurkey | home media server it is wonderful |
MutantTurkey | what is quickbuild? |
kb9vqf | http://quickbuild.pearsoncomputing.net/ |
Xu_R | MutantTurkey: kb9vqf's version of launchpad |
kb9vqf | Big power-hungry build farm |
MutantTurkey | D: |
*Xu_R shakes head at power-hungry |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: yeah the trinity website is quite slow sometimes. |
kb9vqf | Like I said it's under a lot of load |
kb9vqf | Lots of users |
MutantTurkey | really? I am suprised but glad |
MutantTurkey | you use one server for many domains though, correct? |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | But Trinity is by far the largest bandwidth hog |
MutantTurkey | well that is excellent news |
Xu_R | damn. getting more and more attention everyday |
kb9vqf | The Wiki stats show some of that |
kb9vqf | Thousands of hits |
MutantTurkey | per day? |
kb9vqf | Per month I think |
Xu_R | it's even attracted the attention on opensuse-kde3 and opensuse-kde (for kde4)... so we're getting there. |
MutantTurkey | that is good |
kb9vqf | But those stats are per page |
kb9vqf | :) |
MutantTurkey | :) righ |
Xu_R | however, I'm just going to put this out there that fedora-kde is ignoring this D: |
kb9vqf | I'm sure |
kb9vqf | Debian isn't too happy either |
MutantTurkey | well then designing a fast, quick website is great. |
kb9vqf | Because of the binary compatibility problem |
MutantTurkey | whats the problem? |
Xu_R | well, maybe if Debian helped us a bit, then it could be better. |
MutantTurkey | and gah I really need to go to bed. |
kb9vqf | I tend to break binary compatibility with each new release |
Xu_R | the binary compat is a pain in the butt |
MutantTurkey | night all. |
kb9vqf | Right |
Xu_R | nite MutantTurkey |
kb9vqf | If we do that the project stalls and dies |
*Xu_R sighs |
kb9vqf | Oh well |
Xu_R | we're walking a fine thread here. |
kb9vqf | I don't understand the fuss personally |
Xu_R | neither do i. |
kb9vqf | So you rebuild the packge |
kb9vqf | Big deal |
Xu_R | yea. |
Xu_R | according to #fedora-kde (lemme get logs...) |
Xu_R | "mainly because you cannot install kde4 and kde3 on the same machine, and that we can't use /opt" |
kb9vqf | Hmm |
kb9vqf | Why can't they use /opt??!?!? |
Xu_R | FHS packaging guidelines |
kb9vqf | Fun |
kb9vqf | So I can't create a Gnome app named kate |
Xu_R | no major distro can /opt unless it is out of the main distro |
Xu_R | kb9vqf: nope D: |
kb9vqf | Because it will step on KDE |
kb9vqf | Yuch |
kb9vqf | That sounds like a nightmare |
Xu_R | yea. that's why KDE3 isn't in openSUSE repositories (it's in a subproject outside the main) |
kb9vqf | Kind of like a giant polluted namespace |
Xu_R | exactly. |
*kb9vqf shakes his head |
kb9vqf | I thought Linux was about flexibility and good design |
Xu_R | Mandriva tried to do both, but then they ended up crashing with each other and making 2008.1 a failure-ish. |
kb9vqf | That sounds like BAD design |
Xu_R | kb9vqf: makes me wonder, who made up these rules?! .-. |
kb9vqf | KDE e.V? |
kb9vqf | j/k |
Xu_R | LOL, that'd be terrible |
Xu_R | hmm... |
Xu_R | oh, wait. the major distros. |
kb9vqf | Actually, I thought (once upon a time) /opt was recommended |
Xu_R | for local software that the user compiles himself/herself |
*kb9vqf wishes that he had the guidelines handy |
Xu_R | that ... I forget the rest |
Xu_R | I know it's like /usr/local, but for special purposes... |
kb9vqf | http://www.linuxtopia.org/online_books/linux_beginner_books/linux_filesystem/opt.html |
kb9vqf | Third party software |
Xu_R | hey, I just opened that! XD |
Xu_R | ah, right. |
Xu_R | when they include it as part of the main repositories |
Xu_R | they consider that default installation. |
kb9vqf | Huh? |
Xu_R | (bah packaging rules) |
kb9vqf | Default is default |
kb9vqf | Not available |
kb9vqf | Oh well |
*kb9vqf doesn't really care |
kb9vqf | If I wanted to then I could make a distribution that prevents KDE4 |
Xu_R | yea... it's a loop of crap that ends up with crap. :P |
*kb9vqf gets and evil grin |
Xu_R | hehehe |
kb9vqf | Distro rule #1: No default widgets over <x> size |
Xu_R | LOL |
kb9vqf | If it's big enough to be pressed with a big fat greasy finger then it's too big to be used on a desktop |
kb9vqf | :-P |
Xu_R | XD |
Xu_R | lmao |
Xu_R | this already sounds like a perfect nokia phone. xD |
kb9vqf | Rule #2: If you have to go more than three levels deep to access a function your software is banned |
kb9vqf | :) |
*Xu_R is roflmao'ing atm.... |
kb9vqf | Good, good |
Xu_R | lol! |
*kb9vqf needs to get back to work |
kb9vqf | And stop the comedy show |
Xu_R | okees. although it's 2220, it's kinda late :-\ |
kb9vqf | Yeah |
kb9vqf | gn |
Xu_R | don't worry, I gotta finish hw too. :P |
Xu_R | nite :) |
<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="tbottu" time="2011-02-08T03:41:16Z">+o kb9vqf </mode> |
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toxic_devil | ku ku |
toxic_devil | ауууууууу |
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toxic_devil | samelian: возможно к вам программисты будут приходить, вы им обьясните что да как |
Revan199 | iconv -f utf-8 -t koi8-r - PROFIT |
kb9vqf | ?? |
Revan199 | kb9vqf: I'm using KOI8-R encoding in IRC (exactly, XMPP transport do) |
kb9vqf | Oh, OK |
Revan199 | and toxic_devil wrote his message in UTF-8 |
kb9vqf | Just wanted to make sure you weren't a spam bot or something :) |
Revan199 | kb9vqf: ah =) |
Revan199 | 3.5.1210/03/2010 :o |
kb9vqf | What's wrong with that? |
kb9vqf | We're on an approximately 6 month long release cycle |
kb9vqf | It may need to be lengthened some IMHO |
kb9vqf | To ensure a high quality release |
Revan199 | it like propietary model %( |
Revan199 | %)* |
kb9vqf | ? |
Revan199 | also interested why Trinity 3* |
Revan199 | why not 1.5.12? |
kb9vqf | You think the releases are too fast? |
kb9vqf | 3.* is just to continue the KDE series numbers |
kb9vqf | Believe it or not a lot of code checks for >3.5 |
kb9vqf | >=3.5.x that is |
kb9vqf | Also, users would get confused if we switched from version 3 to version 1 |
*kb9vqf is interested in your opinion of the release cycle though |
Revan199 | kb9vqf: maybe one month? |
kb9vqf | There is no way we can generate releases that often without introducing major bugs at each release |
kb9vqf | Or allowing the software to stagnate |
Revan199 | 2 months? |
kb9vqf | Still very tight |
kb9vqf | It usually takes me 2 months just to build the Ubuntu and Debian packages |
kb9vqf | Lots of software |
kb9vqf | Lots of places where things can break |
kb9vqf | We need to make each release ultra stable |
kb9vqf | To differentiate this project from KDE |
kb9vqf | IMO |
kb9vqf | Otherwise we will experience the same backlash |
kb9vqf | "Trinity DE ate my cat and now I love Gnome instead" ;-) |
Revan199 | kb9vqf: what? |
kb9vqf | If users encounter bugs they tend to switch to a more stable desktop |
kb9vqf | That's my experience |
kb9vqf | If we shorten the release cycle too much we will introduce lots of bugs |
kb9vqf | Simply due to the fact that no testing can occur within that short of a time frame |
samelian | we can release maintenance releases |
kb9vqf | Yes |
Revan199 | http://translate.google.ru/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Flinuxforum.ru%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fid%3D6838 my opinion (9/22/2010) about Trinity |
kb9vqf | Those I could see being released much faster |
kb9vqf | Revan199: Thanks |
kb9vqf | Also, there is a very good example of why a fast release cycle is bad |
kb9vqf | Those Ubuntu icos snuck in |
kb9vqf | *icons |
kb9vqf | They are NOT supposed to be there |
kb9vqf | But they were not caught until after the release was already made |
kb9vqf | I was rushing with the Debian packages |
kb9vqf | And it shows :-( |
kb9vqf | I would really like someone else to take over Debian packaging |
Revan199 | do you know about Pardus Corporate2? |
Revan199 | not me :-D |
kb9vqf | :) |
kb9vqf | I have not used it |
Revan199 | my Mobile AMD Athlon 64 3400+ can't |
kb9vqf | You can use QuickBuild |
kb9vqf | :) |
*kb9vqf digresses |
kb9vqf | I did hear about Pardus on the mailing list |
Revan199 | 3 hours for kernel |
kb9vqf | I just need someone to upload packages to the build system |
Revan199 | I think that there is a good idea to cooperate with them |
kb9vqf | Maintain the packaging, etc. |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | They use Trinity, correct? |
Revan199 | nope |
kb9vqf | Hmmm |
Revan199 | they use KDE3 with patches |
Revan199 | own patches |
kb9vqf | Trinity contains a lot of patches from various distros |
kb9vqf | I would not mind incorporating theoirs |
kb9vqf | *theirs |
kb9vqf | However, patching may not be straightforward any more |
kb9vqf | The Trinity codebase has already diverged significantly from KDE3.5.10 |
kb9vqf | Trinity has features that are not available in any other KDE3 maintinance series |
kb9vqf | Functionality has been moved into core libraries |
kb9vqf | new core libraries that is |
kb9vqf | I am tempted to make the next release 3.5.6 |
kb9vqf | To emphasize the API changes |
kb9vqf | revan199: If I could offload Debian/Ubuntu packaging to another group I would be willing to shorten the release cycle some |
kb9vqf | I don't know if you know of anyone who might want to take over :) |
Xu_R | kb9vqf: you mean 3.6 :P |
kb9vqf | Yes I do |
kb9vqf | Sorry |
kb9vqf | 3.6.0 |
Revan199 | kb9vqf: I don't |
kb9vqf | OK |
kb9vqf | Just thought I'd ask |
kb9vqf | :) |
Revan199 | kb9vqf: maybe, someone in debian-kde? |
kb9vqf | They don't like my API/ABI changes from release to release |
kb9vqf | But without them the project will die |
kb9vqf | Linux changes |
kb9vqf | And Trinity must change as well |
kb9vqf | Maybe after 3.6.0 they will look at it again |
kb9vqf | But we have a lot of work to do before we can declare kdelibs as stable and unchanging |
Revan199 | what TDE thinks about HAL? =) |
kb9vqf | We want HAL gone! |
kb9vqf | samelian is working on a nice replacement |
kb9vqf | It will eventually follow this |
kb9vqf | http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/bin/save/Developers/KPowerAPI |
Revan199 | Bad Request: GET denied for save |
kb9vqf | This is one reason we can't stabilize the kdelibs API yet :) |
*Xu_R kicks HAL out of the installation with a pointy boot |
kb9vqf | http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/Developers/KPowerAPI |
kb9vqf | Wrong URL, sorry |
*kb9vqf hates Firefox autocomplete from time to time |
Xu_R | hehe |
kb9vqf | Somehow Firefox thinks I saved the page more than I viewed it (???) |
Xu_R | lol |
kb9vqf | Honestly I'm thinking we need to block the next release on these two items: |
kb9vqf | 1. CMake |
kb9vqf | 2. HAL |
kb9vqf | samelian ^^ |
kb9vqf | Automake is a big, big problem |
kb9vqf | And HAL is not available anymore on several distros |
samelian | i think cmake will not be stable for next few months |
samelian | and hal replacement is pretty big change too |
kb9vqf | Yes, but I don't want to release yet another buggy release |
*kb9vqf is not sure |
kb9vqf | All I know is that Trinity won't even build under Ubuntu without CMake |
kb9vqf | And Gentoo, and RedHat |
kb9vqf | :-P |
kb9vqf | We have to block on CMake |
kb9vqf | HAL is not as important as CMake is |
Revan199 | kb9vqf: what the problem with CMake and Ubuntu? |
kb9vqf | Actually it's a problem with Automake and Ubuntu |
kb9vqf | CMake works just fine under Ubuntu |
kb9vqf | But Trinity does not have full support for CMake yet |
kb9vqf | I think I will have to wait for full CMake support before I can release the next version of Trinity |
kb9vqf | Which means that I will probably be helping with that :-P |
*kb9vqf does not look forward to it |
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kb9vqf | samelian ^^ |
kb9vqf | You may have to give me a crash course in CMake in the next few weeks |
kb9vqf | :) |
kb9vqf | Even better, could you put your porting process on the Wiki? |
samelian | sure |
kb9vqf | Step-by-step instructions for taking the Automake file and creating a CMake file from it? |
kb9vqf | Thanks :) |
*kb9vqf suggests http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/bin/view/Developers/CMakeConversionProcess |
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DarthPenguin | ok going for a while bbl |
tbottu | Trinity web services going offline for routine maintinance. Estimated service restoration date 02/09/2011. |
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Xu_R | oh dear. net splits... again. |
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toxic_devil | hi all |
kb9vqf | hello |
kb9vqf | Any new programmers to help with CMake? ;-) |
toxic_devil | kb9vqf: to you no one came? "((( |
kb9vqf | I did not see anyone |
kb9vqf | Or they did not announce themselves |
toxic_devil | kb9vqf: I spoke yesterday with many programmers, but probably not enough ((( |
kb9vqf | OK |
*kb9vqf will wait patiently |
kb9vqf | samelian is supposed to be putting a general Automake-to-CMake porting guide on the Wiki |
kb9vqf | That may help some |
kb9vqf | I wonder where MutantTurkey ran off to? |
kb9vqf | The new website may help as well ;-) |
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toxic_devil | kb9vqf: hm |
toxic_devil | kb9vqf: I try to do anything, but it does not work ((( |
kb9vqf | ?? |
toxic_devil | kb9vqf: They tell me that I need to learn to program ((( |
kb9vqf | Oh, OK :-P |
toxic_devil | kb9vqf: I never learn this (( |
kb9vqf | I know that KDE4 itself is also very short on developers |
kb9vqf | I wonder if this is just a result of the bad global economy |
kb9vqf | People don't have as much spare time any more |
toxic_devil | kb9vqf: is not the problem |
kb9vqf | I was speaking in general terms, not just about you ;-) |
kb9vqf | Sorry |
kb9vqf | toxic_devil: You know, CMake porting is supposed to be somewhat easy |
kb9vqf | Not like programming |
kb9vqf | When samelian gets the Wiki page up maybe you can look at it? |
kb9vqf | I don't know if you have the time though |
toxic_devil | kb9vqf: I will be one of the first who will see it |
kb9vqf | OK |
kb9vqf | Sounds great! |
kb9vqf | :) |
Piki | seems like everyone who mentions an image is trying to send me that image... kinda wandering why? |
kb9vqf | ? |
samelian | kb9vqf: as you noticed, my english is not very well, so my cmake documentation will be like a tutorial |
kb9vqf | That's perfect |
kb9vqf | I can clean up the English |
kb9vqf | But I don't know how to port to CMake myself |
kb9vqf | That's why you have to write the basic process first |
samelian | i create some macros which make this process really easy |
kb9vqf | Even better :) |
toxic_devil | samelian: hi |
samelian | I started the article |
samelian | http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/bin/view/Developers/CMakeConversionProcess |
Piki | kb9vqf: every time i see mention of an image in irc, i seem to get a DCC send request from that person for that image |
kb9vqf | Piki: On this channel or others? |
samelian | now I will add basic usage of these macros, syntax and formatting rules |
*kb9vqf wants to know if he set something up wrong...again.... |
Piki | kb9vqf: every channel |
kb9vqf | Piki: Konversation or all clients |
kb9vqf | ? |
Piki | kb9vqf: kvirc, haven't gotten konversation fixed yet |
kb9vqf | OK, just wanted to make sure it wasn't my problem ;-) |
*kb9vqf has not gotten any DCC requests |
Piki | kb9vqf: it's mostly this channel, nobody ever visits #arklinux-devel, and #arklinux is slow, but both #arklinux and this channel do it when i see an image |
Piki | i don't think there's a way to set a channel to do that anyway ;-) |
Piki | and the send requests aren't from tbottu |
kb9vqf | No, I don't think so either |
kb9vqf | Strange |
Piki | but from the user that mentions the user |
kb9vqf | I wonder if it is a kvirc issue or not |
kb9vqf | Probably not though |
Piki | and it isn't the same nick all the time, just whoever mentions the image |
kb9vqf | DCC requests are sender-initiated IIRC |
kb9vqf | Someone may have a buggy client |
samelian | argh... I hate wiki :) |
kb9vqf | That's not good :( |
Piki | kb9vqf: i doubt it's kivrc, this didn't happen a couple weeks ago when i last reinstalled ark |
samelian | it's too hard to formatiing |
samelian | kb9vqf: I will post my tutorial on forum |
kb9vqf | What are you trying to do? |
samelian | right now i want to paste a code |
kb9vqf | And there are no code blocks |
kb9vqf | I wish FOSWiki would fix that |
samelian | ah, nice, I will use plain wiki markers |
kb9vqf | There you go :) |
kb9vqf | I just found that <verbatim> is supposed to work; that might be what you are using? |
kb9vqf | http://www.lavrsen.dk/foswiki/bin/view/System/TextFormattingRules |
samelian | wait, I will try |
samelian | seems ok |
kb9vqf | Hmm, my rules are different |
kb9vqf | http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/bin/view/System/TextFormattingRules |
kb9vqf | I think I am missing the code extension |
*kb9vqf goes to check |
samelian | kb9vqf: the wiki is a pain in the ass :) |
kb9vqf | Working on it; hang on |
samelian | eating my </verbatim> markers |
kb9vqf | Ok, the wiki is gaining a lot of features very shortly |
kb9vqf | Including talk pages :) |
kb9vqf | And MediWiki syntax support |
samelian | nice |
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samelian | I think we need two distinct articles |
samelian | how to build trinity using cmake |
samelian | and how to port automake to cmake |
samelian | Xu_R: ping |
kb9vqf | Yes, I agree |
kb9vqf | Two separate articles |
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kb9vqf | samelian: Ues this for the second article: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/bin/view/Developers/HowToBuildTrinityWithCMake |
kb9vqf | *Use |
kb9vqf | Also, if you like MediWiki syntax you can try this: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/bin/view/System/EditSyntaxPlugin |
Piki | kb9vqf: what are we doing using a wiki meant for medical work ;-) |
kb9vqf | Hehe |
kb9vqf | It's actually quite powerful |
Piki | kb9vqf: can't say i've heard of it, but at some point if it is really that powerful, i may do a test instal |
kb9vqf | FOSWiki? |
Piki | mediwiki |
kb9vqf | MediaWiki |
Piki | and perhaps foswiki, but never liked the FOSwiki ui |
kb9vqf | I was referring to FOSWiki being quite powerful ;-) |
kb9vqf | MediaWiki does have some drawbacks IIRC |
Piki | kb9vqf: hmm? |
kb9vqf | I don't remember what they are right now ;-) |
kb9vqf | Sorry |
kb9vqf | My research into Wikis was done a long time ago |
*samelian hate html WYSIWYG |
Piki | kb9vqf: i've not used many wikis, but with the few i tried, i definitely like mediawiki best |
kb9vqf | I have heard that from a few people now |
Piki | samelian: have you tried CKEditor? or are you designing a new page at home? |
samelian | CKEditor is bad as any other javascript WYSIWYG editor :) |
Piki | kb9vqf: i'll have to try a bunch of wikis at some point, see what i would like the best, just not much time, and trying to use today to relax |
Piki | samelian: it's not too bad, but i don't like html WYSIWYG eithre |
Piki | CKEditor is one of the few ones that are "ok" |
Piki | kb9vqf: wikipedia has a comparison of wiki software, if you want to look at it |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | That's what I used to select FOSWiki :) |
kb9vqf | BTW I just ran an upgrade to the latest FOSWiki version |
kb9vqf | samelian, If you run into problems let me know |
samelian | ok |
Strangelv | Does it helyp to say that FOSWiki is the second best wiki I've used? |
Strangelv | I would definietly want to put some things from MediaWiki into it |
samelian | nope :) |
Strangelv | Probably number one is to save the markup, not html derived form teh markup |
Strangelv | "Things get lost in shuffling back and forth |
Strangelv | "especially ones related to formatting |
Strangelv | Talk pages would be really helpful too |
kb9vqf | Strangelv: Talk pages are now available :) |
Piki | kb9vqf: if we have someone that can do the FOSwiki syntax, i can start adding some normal user documentation after a few more TDE releases (or at least, whenever i get an opening in my schedule) |
Strangelv | Oh good |
Strangelv | :: looks to see if the IRC archive is up since the last time he looked |
kb9vqf | Not yet |
*kb9vqf got sidetracked with the Wiki :-P |
Strangelv | :: instead notices tha it's no longer announced on welcoming |
kb9vqf | Should be |
Strangelv | Wasn't announced when I reconnected |
Strangelv | I don't have reliable logging in Konversation, and chat logs often contain excellent material to dump into talk pages |
Strangelv | ...Admittedly teh only wiki that I know wher ethis is done is behind an apache door dragon and an NDA |
kb9vqf | It'll be up as soon as I get the HTML converter working ;-) |
Strangelv | html converter? |
Piki | kb9vqf: keep forgetting to mention this, but on Trinity home page -> Download Project Files, 3.5.12 isn't listed, just 3.5.11, and some people will notice this link before they see the Official Releases section further down the nav bar |
Piki | kb9vqf: mozbot doesn't have a plugin to do the chat logs in html? |
kb9vqf | It does them in an XML format |
kb9vqf | Which won't work in Firefox |
Piki | hmm, if it accepts eggdrop-style tcl scripts, there are a couple eggdrop scripts, but i doubt mozbot would accept those |
kb9vqf | Probably not |
kb9vqf | It won't take long to get it working, I just haven't had the time today |
kb9vqf | Anyone working on the Wiki may want to bookmark this: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/bin/view/System/TextFormattingRules |
kb9vqf | Lots of good stuff in there |
Strangelv | That's more informative that waht I'd been going by. That should help, whenever I get back to work on hunting down files so I can figure out waht I need to wokr on |
Piki | kb9vqf: dunno if this will help with the chat logs, but i found http://webscripts.softpedia.com/script/Snippets/ircLOG2HTML-10301.html |
Piki | never used it myself, can't say how it works |
kb9vqf | That's what I'll be using |
*Strangelv doesn't see an equivalent to <BR clear="all"/>, but wonders if <sticky/> could help |
kb9vqf | I have to massage the mozbot xml log to xchat style |
Piki | kb9vqf: perhaps if i get a chance at some point, i can setup a mozbot in a private channel and create one that can skip xml and go directly to html |
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Piki | i'm not a coder, but a chance to learn |
Xu_R|School | kb9vqf: nice touch with the tbottu welcome :) |
kb9vqf | :) |
*Xu_R|School has to endure another 40 minutes... helpppppppp xD |
Piki | i didn't know tbottu had a welcome? |
kb9vqf | Piki: Disconnect from the channel and you will see it when you reconnect |
Xu_R|School | kb9vqf: it sends the message via /notice, right? |
kb9vqf | Yes |
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Xu_R|School | knew it. :D |
*Piki has joined #trinity-desktop |
kb9vqf | See it? |
Piki | now i do |
kb9vqf | I only added it yesterday |
Piki | using /msg, i assume? |
Xu_R|School | when we all netsplit lol |
kb9vqf | /notify, actually |
Xu_R|School | Piki: no, via /notice |
kb9vqf | Yes, that |
*kb9vqf did a thinko |
Piki | lol i hope we don't get 100 people joining at once, tbottu may get confused |
Xu_R|School | Piki: does 15 people count? XD |
Xu_R|School | (net split last night caused mass d/c and r/c) |
kb9vqf | Tbottu will notify each person in turn |
tbottu | kb9vqf: Sorry, I've no idea what 'will notify each person in turn' might be. |
samelian | kb9vqf: is any way to disable WYSIWYG on foswiki, for my account ? |
kb9vqf | samelian: Maybe |
kb9vqf | I was looking into that |
Piki | kb9vqf: i'm talking within a couple seconds, and tbottusees quite a few of them joining at the same time |
kb9vqf | Piki: Right |
kb9vqf | he'll flood the server :-P |
kb9vqf | There is still a split second between each join notice |
kb9vqf | That's enough |
Xu_R|School | wheeeeeeeee lol |
Xu_R|School | o_O speaking of that, my bot just had a d/c |
*Xu_R|School goes to fix stuff |
kb9vqf | samelian: I can shut down the WYSIWY editor wiki-wide |
kb9vqf | Do you want me to try that? |
kb9vqf | I never use it anyway |
kb9vqf | Seems more trouble than it is worth |
samelian | maybe someone want to use it |
kb9vqf | Yes, but it is corrupting the articles |
kb9vqf | That's what bugs me |
Xu_R|School | :-\ |
samelian | ok then, disable it |
Xu_R|School | foswiki seems to have a way of screwing over people editing with its wysiwyg editor :P |
samelian | hehe |
Strangelv | I've been starting wtih WYSIWYG, then disable and fix things it messes up |
Strangelv | "largely because until the formatting link that was pasted here a few minuets ago I couldn't get some things to wokr otherwise |
Xu_R|School | :( |
Strangelv | What I'd found on my own was a bit more limited |
Strangelv | "at the moment I'm at wokr stoppage until I can get back ot hunting down files to find out what I need to work on |
Xu_R|School | kb9vqf: are the servers still down? |
kb9vqf | No |
Strangelv | "Unless someone else finds firles for me to wokr on -- taht would help |
kb9vqf | But one just failed |
kb9vqf | Dunno why |
kb9vqf | It happened like 30 seconds ago |
Xu_R|School | o_O |
Xu_R|School | I just tried to connect like 30 seconds ago |
*Xu_R|School hides behind tbottu |
*kb9vqf runs to check the rack |
Piki | looks like the one holding the trinity page (just cause i like saying the obvious ;-)) |
*Xu_R|School doesn't try accessing it anymore from school |
Xu_R|School | I don't feel like arguing with administration and central office on the basis of their windows logs calling using the internet "hacking" |
samelian | haha |
Xu_R|School | I've done it once, and I seriously hold a grudge against my school, |
Xu_R|School | oh. |
Xu_R|School | they also lied to me about their logs |
Xu_R|School | they were like, we got reports that you were trying to use /etc/passwd |
Xu_R|School | me: I have server logs here. My connection never made it to the server. |
Xu_R|School | because your windows thing blocked me out of it and called it hacking. |
*Xu_R|School facepalms them |
Piki | Xu_R: i seriously hold a grudge against anyone that thinks that windows is the best thing in the entire universe and that linux is a virus ant that linux users are radicals who want to take over the world |
Piki | and that seems like pretty much everyone these days |
Piki | including my own mother, who always told me to fight for my own beliefs and is now trying to convince me to use windows |
Xu_R|School | Piki: not necessarily. |
Xu_R|School | i know people that are not computer geeks that hate windows ;) |
Piki | Xu_R: i've only met one of those, everyone else seems to hate linux |
kb9vqf | OK, server's back up |
Piki | at least here in PA |
kb9vqf | A lot of people think Linux is for geeks only |
Xu_R|School | kb9vqf: loaded. nice :D |
kb9vqf | WYSIWYG editor is disabled |
kb9vqf | samelian ^^ |
samelian | thx |
Strangelv | :: doesn't know anyone in PA who isn't a geek. Yes, he doesn't know many people theer at all. How did you guess? |
samelian | now I must to learn foswiki syntax :) |
Xu_R|School | lol Strangelv! |
samelian | for explain cmake language, I must learn wiki language :)) |
Piki | kb9vqf: really? who would think that? linux is for braindead people who don't know a thing about computers! lol |
kb9vqf | samelian: You can enable a different syntax if you want |
kb9vqf | Piki: Well, KDE4 is not helping there :-P |
samelian | cmake syntax, maybe? :) |
kb9vqf | Neither is Gnome |
kb9vqf | samelian: Nope, sorry :-P |
samelian | haha |
Xu_R|School | samelian: if it was cmake syntax, we'd have all this converted to cmake already :P |
samelian | for sure |
Piki | there was a point where linux was geeks-only, the normal user thing is recent |
samelian | we convert anything to cmake :) |
kb9vqf | samelian: Is it still eating your </verbatim> tags? |
samelian | wait |
Piki | kb9vqf: yeah, GNOME never helped with that, and KDE4 certainly isn't helping either, i'm only surviving KDE4 because i've been a linux user for a few years ;-) |
kb9vqf | The only things that kept me from going back to Windows were the $$$$$ needed and the same stupid interface on Windows 7 |
kb9vqf | :-P |
samelian | seems fine now |
Xu_R|School | samelian: :: goes on a cmake conversion rampage :: :P |
kb9vqf | Great! |
kb9vqf | I'll leave the WYSIWYG editor disabled then |
Strangelv | "So we have someone who's actually using KDE4? What's theer that's good to cannibalize after the Qt4 migration besides Konqueror? |
Xu_R|School | kb9vqf: one reason i can use windows: gov license thanks to my dad :D |
kb9vqf | KDevelop (maybe) |
kb9vqf | Hehe |
Xu_R|School | (well, gov discount >:D) |
kb9vqf | Yeah, but try that with the server editions |
Xu_R|School | strangelv: everything. XD |
Xu_R|School | kb9vqf: I have 2003 and 2008 R2 sitting on my desk at home, unused cause my dad got those for free somehow o.o |
kb9vqf | Dunno how |
kb9vqf | Those are NOT CHEAP |
Xu_R|School | of course |
Xu_R|School | did I mention UNUSED XD |
kb9vqf | Hehe |
kb9vqf | M$ is watching you... |
Xu_R|School | XD |
*kb9vqf gets evil grin agani |
Piki | kb9vqf: i used to like the xp UI, it was the continued unstability and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ pushed me |
Xu_R|School | screw MS |
Xu_R|School | I have openSUSE XD |
kb9vqf | Piki: Yup |
kb9vqf | Same here |
*Strangelv 's MS Windows migration path hit a dead end when he didn't like the XP licence. He has a still shrinkwrapped 2000 box he bought on EBay he wants to install to a kvm when he has time to figure it out |
kb9vqf | I found KDE3.5.....then they dumped it :angry: |
Piki | Strangelv: i don't like kde4, i only use it because i haven't managed to package TDE for my fave distro |
Strangelv | "I've actually been using KDE singe KDE 2 |
kb9vqf | I've seen KDE2 |
Xu_R|School | kb9vqf: :( |
kb9vqf | KDE3 is a vast improvement |
Strangelv | "I understand that you probabyl idon't like it, just noting the potential usefulness of someone looking at it |
Xu_R|School | I started with KDE3. :D |
kb9vqf | KDE4 is worse than KDE2 |
kb9vqf | :) |
Xu_R|School | kb9vqf: LOL ouch |
Xu_R|School | pwnage |
Strangelv | "I liked KDE 2 a lot more than GNOME |
kb9vqf | I have used KDE2 actually |
kb9vqf | So I can say that with some confidence |
Xu_R|School | Strangelv: for me, I actually like GNOME 2 right now... |
Strangelv | And KDE 2 didn't inspire me to want to throw my monitor across the room |
Piki | i like windows vista better than GNOME |
kb9vqf | I hate Gnome personally |
samelian | I using kde from 1.3, if i correct remember |
Strangelv | clap |
*Xu_R|School claps for samelian :D |
*Strangelv claps |
kb9vqf | for me, KDE4 < Windows 7 < KDE2 < Windows 2000 < KDE3 |
kb9vqf | Gnome < KDE2 |
Strangelv | "it's been too long since KDE 2 for me to evaluate it |
Xu_R|School | me: KDE3 > GNOME > Windows 7 > KDE4 |
Xu_R|School | lol. |
kb9vqf | Heh |
kb9vqf | I see a trend |
samelian | kde2 was great for that times |
Strangelv | "It was a gradual progression where it mostly kept improwving except for a now missing setting from Konqueror I desperately want back |
Xu_R|School | kde4 is all the way at the bottom anyway XD |
kb9vqf | Stragelv: Yep. Then it took a nosedive for the worse |
Piki | kde3 > windows 7 > windows vista > gnome |
Piki | gnome > kde4 |
kb9vqf | On the bottom *again* :) |
Xu_R|School | kb9vqf: BWAHAHAHAQHAHAHA XD |
kb9vqf | Have you seen KDevelop 4? |
*kb9vqf wants to know what ate all the useful toolbar icons |
kb9vqf | :-P |
Xu_R|School | ewww. KDevelop 4. |
Piki | yep, i don't like gnome at all, but i don't hate it. i hate kde4 |
kb9vqf | Precisely |
kb9vqf | "Activities" are for preschool |
kb9vqf | Not for software development |
Xu_R|School | kb9vqf: trololol |
Xu_R|School | activities... we're in preschool class. XD |
kb9vqf | Complete with big button blocks :-P |
samelian | but why we hate kde4? |
samelian | what is problem with it? |
kb9vqf | Unintuitive |
kb9vqf | Slow |
kb9vqf | Clunky |
Piki | unfortunately, most of the "adults" i see still belong in preschool |
kb9vqf | Wastes screen real estate |
Xu_R|School | samelian: the graphics is mostly the problem |
Xu_R|School | and the way it handles |
kb9vqf | Missing context items |
samelian | the graphics are themeable :) |
Xu_R|School | otherwise, it's be great. |
Strangelv | "KDE 4 took away most of the things that make KDE 3.5 great |
samelian | i think i do not like the kicker replacement |
kb9vqf | You can't get around the lack of "at your fingertips" functionality |
Xu_R|School | samelian: I want to see performance improvements, not more eyecandy -__- |
kb9vqf | No matter how you theme it |
Piki | samelian: slow, too much eye candy, missing stuff from kde3, unstable |
Strangelv | "it's powerful, flexible, and easily adapted to be what teh user needs to get their work ,life, et c. done |
kb9vqf | In KDE3 you can usually access a function with one or two mouse clicks |
Strangelv | "KDE 4 takes that awapy |
Xu_R|School | In all: |
Xu_R|School | BLAHHH. |
kb9vqf | In KDE4 you get to click at *least* three times :) |
Strangelv | Most of what I wanted to do I couldn't in KDE 4 at all |
kb9vqf | That reminds me of using a newer Mac in a store |
kb9vqf | I counted 7 clicks to create and delete a folder |
Xu_R|School | ok, ok, let's stop ranting now. poor samelian. |
samelian | haha |
Piki | and i'm sure we could get a theme in kde3 that at least mimicks kde4 |
samelian | </rant> |
Piki | lol |
kb9vqf | That's easy |
Strangelv | "That's likely what our permanant icon ought to convey: TDE is what the user needs it to be, and not what someone else wants the user to use |
kb9vqf | We'll add an "instant uglification" button :-P |
kb9vqf | j/k |
Piki | lol |
kb9vqf | It'll make every widget 10x bigger |
Xu_R|School | yes, yes, let's </rant> now |
kb9vqf | And shrink the fonts |
kb9vqf | </rant> |
Xu_R|School | good. good. |
Strangelv | Konqueror in KDE 4 was the one bright spot |
*kb9vqf goes back to cursing at Qt4 |
*samelian are to lazy to write cmake docs :) |
*Strangelv happened to have been impressed by that bright spot |
Xu_R|School | pfft. then rekonq took over :) |
kb9vqf | Strangelv :Well, maybe you can put a Wiki page up with what was better |
Piki | i think we should add a bunch of themes to TDE, e.g. kde4 themes, winvista/7, osx, os classic, just for the people who prefer those, but not include them in the main tde, but as extra themes that users can add |
Xu_R|School | which I hope we can make that the default in TDE once tqt for qt4 finishes |
Strangelv | kb9vqf: that would require me having KDE 4 installed on something again to go back and look |
Strangelv | "Extra themes is good |
Strangelv | It can especially help with people migrating and needing familiarity |
Strangelv | "it also helps to have teh same wallpaper and startup sound |
Strangelv | Q: how many of these already exist? |
Xu_R|School | Strangelv: ever since kde4 took over? like none now |
*samelian are scaried every time by error sound :) |
samelian | broken glass |
Strangelv | "That are compatible with KDE 3.x/TDE |
kb9vqf | Heh |
*Strangelv used to have a photon torpedo filing for an error sound |
Piki | Strangelv: not sure if we could get the sounds and wallpapers considering that M$ could come after us with a lawsuit for using copyright material |
Strangelv | "Something I miss from Plug In for Program Manager (MS Windows 3.1+) was the ability to assign sounds to executables |
Xu_R|School | kb9vqf: um, the Tim Willianms who just emailed trinity-users, i've decided to import his stuff for now into build.lincomlinux.org and start testing |
Xu_R|School | I might be better off than before :) |
Xu_R|School | hey, the bell just rang |
Xu_R|School | bbl |
Strangelv | "We couldn't use those, correct. It would be something to suggest to users, especially ones with the ability to port their probabyl already custom sounds and wallpaper |
Piki | Strangelv: 3.1 was the best windows, most stable version, and more secure considering one can still find a firewall and antivirus |
Piki | downside is no more modern apps for it |
Strangelv | "When Help started, the Book of Armamants was consulted; when my MIDI sequencer was started David Bowie would say it's not Rock and Roll, but genocide; when I started MS Word President Merkin Muffley would ask me if we had anything like that in the works |
Strangelv | until Windows 2000 my most stable experience with MS Windows was orinal 95, something that confused me until I realised that that was before i had MSIE installed |
Piki | yeah, they want everyone to use their braindead browser |
Strangelv | "Netscape for MS Windows wasn't on par with its Linux version |
Piki | firefox is much better than either, unfortunately it's slow loading |
Strangelv | Something I learned to do with MSIE that I couldn't do with Mozilla or Netscape was to run multiple instance of ut -- so that when an instance crashed I didn't lose everything all at once |
Strangelv | "I rely heavily on Firefox 2 still -- firefox 3 has never been stable for me |
Piki | and it pulls in a bunch of GTK libs, and i don't use any other gtk |
Piki | what's ut? |
Strangelv | "although it got noticeably less bad with 3.5 shortly before 3.6. It's still a lot less stable than 2.0 |
Strangelv | "ut? |
Piki | ff 2 was slow for me too |
Strangelv | "firefox 2 is a nightmare memory hog. It's something I kept in mind when I got a motherboad that can do up to 32 GB of RAM |
Piki | Strangelv: a few lines up, you mention multiple instances of ut |
Strangelv | "oh, multiple instances of it (MSIE) |
Piki | ff3 uses less memory, but is still slow |
Piki | konqueror is fast, but doesn't do html very well |
kb9vqf | KHTML is completely broken |
Piki | just discovered rekonq in the Ark repos, gonna see if it works |
kb9vqf | A lot of modern websites will not work right |
Piki | yep, only downside to konqueror is khtml, works great for everything else |
kb9vqf | Once Qt4 porting is complete, I plan to use Webkit instead of khtml |
Strangelv | "I've never found Konquer to be stable as a web browser. Actually, I've never been impressed by its stability as a file browser either. It's possible that if I'd run KDE 4 longer I'd have found stability issues with that wversion too. I should install it sometime as I already have Qt4 running for something anyway |
kb9vqf | Way in the future though :) |
kb9vqf | Strangelv: Nice and stable here |
kb9vqf | Although I did fix a lot of crashing bugs in Trinity |
Piki | thinking of making d3lphin the default filemanager for TDE in ark, though, just to maintain consistency with our kde4 version |
Strangelv | How similar are they, given that khtml begat WebKit? |
kb9vqf | WebKit is maintained by Apple AFAIK |
kb9vqf | Meaning they *will* make rendering work correctly |
kb9vqf | khtml was never properly maintained |
Strangelv | noted |
Piki | konqueror has always been stable here, even displays an error instead of crashing when khtml failed to load |
Piki | works well with local file management, ftp (never did uploading though), and sftp |
Strangelv | I must admit that it's a plus when there's notice that something has crashed. In unix, things are supposed to crash noisely, only in Xorg, they crash like a mouse silently leaving the room |
Piki | it helps when it says why it crashed, rather than just saying it crashed |
Strangelv | "That's nice too, yes |
Piki | rekonq looks nice, faster than arora, but it's missing a menu bar, can't find how to enable it in my right click menus |
kb9vqf | Grrr....Qt4 completely gutted QCString |
kb9vqf | The original functionality is GONE with respect to null terminators |
Piki | just found the rekonq config |
Piki | kb9vqf: isn't null just a value of '0'? |
kb9vqf | Yes |
Piki | perhaps see if that works? |
kb9vqf | QCString is supposed to automagically add/subtract the length of the null terminator |
kb9vqf | Q3CString does NOT |
kb9vqf | I've been having to track down and reimplement the functions that are malfunctioning |
kb9vqf | It's not the null == 0 thing ;-) |
kb9vqf | I dealt with that back on Day 1 ;-) |
kb9vqf | Ah, there we go |
kb9vqf | Much bette |
kb9vqf | *better |
samelian | kb9vqf: QCString must die anyway :) |
Piki | any rekonq users who know how to get the menubar? |
samelian | as I understand QCString was invented to easy porting from Qt2 to Qt3 |
kb9vqf | samelian: It's used practically everywhere in Trinity |
kb9vqf | It's a slightly enhanced const char * string |
samelian | yes, I know |
kb9vqf | So it actually does have a purpose |
kb9vqf | if you need to interface to anything C-like |
kb9vqf | QString has problems because it is Unicode |
samelian | but i'm not wrong, QCString::length() is the same thing as strlen() |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | But not in Q3CString |
samelian | this is bad, actually |
kb9vqf | They broke it |
kb9vqf | I had to fix it |
samelian | length() count all characters every time |
samelian | this is an useless overhead |
kb9vqf | Yes, I know |
kb9vqf | I know there are "better" ways of doing things |
kb9vqf | But the C API is old |
kb9vqf | You probably will need to use a QCString |
kb9vqf | When you do glib integration |
kb9vqf | *When/if |
samelian | actually I used QString instead |
samelian | this is recommended |
kb9vqf | But you probably used the .ascii() function, right? |
samelian | yes |
kb9vqf | That's a QCString internally |
samelian | QString do this automatically too |
kb9vqf | ascii() has a lot of overhead |
kb9vqf | Both in terms of memory and CPU time |
kb9vqf | Just FYI |
samelian | operator const char* is the same thing |
kb9vqf | Yup |
kb9vqf | Same conversion |
kb9vqf | Same overhead |
kb9vqf | Like I said, I think QCString has its place |
kb9vqf | But only for low level stuff |
*kb9vqf just got khelpcenter partially working :) |
samelian | hehe |
Piki | kb9vqf: once i eventually get 3.5.12 packaged and uploaded to the AL repos, i can grab svn and start helping there |
Piki | with testing |
kb9vqf | Sounds great |
kb9vqf | We will need lots of testing this go-round |
kb9vqf | Lots of stuff is changing |
kb9vqf | in the backend that is |
kb9vqf | samelian: Speaking of which, how goes libkpower? |
Piki | i'm hoping i can patch 3.5.12 for our mission control, though, don't know how much has changed since 3.5.10 |
kb9vqf | Piki: Depends on what is used |
kb9vqf | As long as you didn't use low level device libraries the patch should be relatively simple |
Piki | kb9vqf: dunno, haven't looked at the patches yet |
kb9vqf | Ok |
kb9vqf | You'll need to tqt convert them most likely |
kb9vqf | That involves changing QObject to TQObject, QWidget to TQWidget, etc. |
kb9vqf | And changing things like find("foo") to tqfind("foo") |
Piki | kb9vqf: i don't think it would, it's for reorganizing kcontrol modules to make it easier for new users |
kb9vqf | Pretty simple |
kb9vqf | Oh, OK |
kb9vqf | TQt conversion would be the hardest part then |
kb9vqf | And it's mostly just tedious |
Piki | dunno why the patches are there in the first place, but still |
kb9vqf | Sure |
Piki | kb9vqf: you'll have to help me convert to tqt, i haven't started coding yet ;-) |
kb9vqf | When you're ready (way in the future I know...) just poke me here |
kb9vqf | I'll help you |
kb9vqf | Or maybe by that point others will know about TQt :) |
Piki | in fact, once it's converted and stable, i can send in mission control and it's patches |
kb9vqf | And I could probably include them in SVN |
kb9vqf | As long as there's a GPL license, and the coding is OK there shouldn't be any problems |
Piki | i'm rsync'ing our stable repos (need to regenerate the repodata, it disappeared for some reasons), once the 2008.1 isos appear, i can do a vbox install and do screenshots |
Xu_R | mwahaha, i iz back |
Piki | kb9vqf: i'm pretty sure it uses GPLv2, and bero is obsessed with keeping code clean and sane so that things work, so i don't think that will be a problem |
kb9vqf | Great |
samelian | kb9vqf: I haven't time to progress on libkpower, at this moment I can call upower methods (like suspend()) and a can read upower properties (like onBattery()) |
kb9vqf | OK |
Piki | if it isn't clean, i can do some work cleaning it up when converting to tqt, once i know how to code |
Xu_R | kb9vqf: anything back-breaking in SVN atm? I'm about to start pulling from services. |
Xu_R | *triggering services |
Piki | brb |
Xu_R | samelian: do the 3.5.12 tarballs work with your current svn cmake scripts? |
Xu_R | because i'm going to maintain two versions: 3.5.12 and svn (named 3.5.12.99) |
Piki | Xu_R: using rekonq, apparently on the AL repos, nice UI, and faster than arora, but can't find the menu bar |
Xu_R | Piki: there is no menubar |
Xu_R | use the settings to the side to access everything |
Xu_R | very lightweight. no baggage. |
Piki | yeah, i'm used to a menu bar |
Xu_R | brb snacking |
Piki | keeps things a bit organized and quicker (at least for me) than keeping everything under the same button |
*Xu_R goes to nom on ramen again :D |
*field_it has joined #trinity-desktop |
Piki | btw, a menu bar doesn't mean extra baggage, arora has one, and it tries to be as minimal as possible |
Piki | it's still not reached 1.0 yet |
Piki | so there's still time for it to speed it |
samelian | Xu_R: I have no ideea, I think will not working directly, at least because cmake check for patched qt3 |
Piki | it == up |
Piki | it might work, if the cmake scripts use the same source files as 3.5.12 |
Piki | or maybe with a patch to 3.5.12 |
Piki | on the plus side (for rekonq), facebook now seems to be working normally |
*kb9vqf notes that "very lightweight" often == "completely usesless" |
Piki | just wish i could remove the fb chat from the site, i have kopete set for that |
Piki | kb9vqf: not always, as long as it can still function properly, do what the user needs, and support extensions so the user can add what he needs/wants that isn't included, that's a good thing |
kb9vqf | Right |
Piki | it's a matter of how it is developed/designed |
kb9vqf | Hence the "often" word ;-) |
kb9vqf | I see that used waaayyy too often as an excuse |
kb9vqf | And yes, I agree with you |
Piki | arora is slow, and doesn't like fb, but if they fix those and add a way to use extensions, arora would be a great lightweight browser |
Piki | i find it odd that arora doesn't like fb, though, it uses webkit, and so does rekonq |
kb9vqf | The insanity I was referring to usually ends with "xyz feature make the interface too cluttered, let's completely remove it from the application. Oh and by the way, this makes it so we don't have to do as much in the future" :-P |
kb9vqf | It's about what's easiest for the developers |
kb9vqf | I'm not sure about Arora |
*kb9vqf has never used it |
kb9vqf | Although KDE has a long history of patching backend libraries |
kb9vqf | Maybe they did that with Webkit for rekonq |
Piki | with certain apps, there are things that should always be there, and other things that if they aren't included, they should at least be extensions |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | Firefox for example is well designed |
Piki | kb9vqf: i don't think rekonq is actually kde4, i'm pretty sure it's a 3rd part app |
kb9vqf | Which might include a patched verison of Webkit |
kb9vqf | I'm just speculating though |
Piki | arora is nice, but slow |
Piki | actually, when i installed rekonq, it didn't pull in webkit, it seems to be using webkit as already installed |
Piki | which would be the same webkit that arora is using on my system |
kb9vqf | Hmm |
kb9vqf | Beats me then |
Piki | there could be a bug in arora in how it' using webkit |
Piki | this whole time i was thinking that it was my internet connection really slow that was causing the fb and speed issues in arora, but rekonq is going extremely fast, and seems to like fb |
kb9vqf | Arora is GTK based? |
Piki | (Clear is a horrible ISP, but unfortunately i have no other choice but to rely on my mother's verizon FiOS, and she tends to shut it off when i'm using it cause she's afraid of linux) |
Piki | no, Qt |
Piki | Qt4 |
Piki | the only GTK app i use is firefox |
Piki | and i use it only because of KHTML and website compatibility |
kb9vqf | Ah |
kb9vqf | Qt4 |
kb9vqf | If used wrong it could be really, really slow |
kb9vqf | And it's very easy to use wrong :) |
Xu_R | samelian: fk. I'll try it, but that means I'll have to devel soley on svn right now |
Piki | it's slow and heavy, and pulls in GTK libs (obviously), which i shouldn't have to do being that i don't use any other GTK apps |
kb9vqf | Xu_R: Go ahead; I'll try not to break things too badly in SVN |
Piki | just takes up extra space that i could otherwise use when i get to heavy packaging |
kb9vqf | If it breaks poke me here |
Piki | though i dunno, may decide to package GNOME just to shut up the people who keep complaining that we don't have it |
Piki | after TDE, of course ;-) |
kb9vqf | Naturally :) |
Piki | and perhaps some other DE's and WM's\ |
Piki | so having GTK may come in handy |
*eldarion has joined #trinity-desktop |
*kb9vqf thinks that may be a good idea |
kb9vqf | Lots of GTK apps out there |
kb9vqf | And TDE integrates nicely |
Piki | the only reason we have GTK in our repos is for firefox, which is in the repos only because it's so popular |
Piki | we don't include anything GTK on the ISO, however |
kb9vqf | You don't have Gimp itself then? |
Piki | never bothered to search our repos for it |
Piki | *Checks& |
Piki | turns out we do |
Piki | i think we include krita by default |
Piki | i don't do anything with image editing, except resizing and cropping photos photos from the camera |
Piki | i use gwenview for that |
Piki | if there is anyone here who is willing to download Ark's devel ISO and do some packaging of GTK apps, feel free to let us know ;-) |
Piki | we use RPM5, very similiar to RPM4, though i'm pretty sure we use SRPMs on the build server |
Piki | no public access to build server (i don't have access), but we can always create a temporary drop point on the webserver via a php page |
Xu_R | kb9vqf: started services. hopefully svn won't get pounded too much :) |
*Xu_R thinks of mario's "here we go!" voice :P |
kb9vqf | OK |
Piki | imagine mario saying "whop-pop-pop-per" (was a joke at BK when i worked there lol) |
Xu_R | kb9vqf: and the nice thing is that I think I have a patched version of build.o.o that allows me to use download-on-demand ready... :D |
Xu_R | that will allow me to include the Update repositories and rolling release repositories of any distribution. |
Xu_R | well, I think i'll stick with the basics of making it build first ;) |
Xu_R | I'll brb for a while... Sleeping at 2AM does not go well for me. |
samelian | kb9vqf: I started to document my macros |
samelian | http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/bin/view/Developers/CMakeConversionProcess |
kb9vqf | Good |
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MutantTurkey | irc logs now online? nice |
kb9vqf | Almost |
kb9vqf | Give me a minute or two |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: also, I've implemented the secondary bar, and pretty much converted all the pages you have me, so from here I just need to 1) look over the wiki, some stuff should be in the website. 2) do the frontpage with 3.5.12 features 3) make an about/history page 4) double check and validate everything |
kb9vqf | OK |
kb9vqf | I don't have time right this instant unfortunately :-( |
kb9vqf | Will you be on later on todaty? |
kb9vqf | *today |
MutantTurkey | that fine, I was just letting you know |
kb9vqf | OK, thanks |
MutantTurkey | I should be tonight. |
kb9vqf | And thanks for all the work on it :") |
MutantTurkey | :) yup |
MutantTurkey | I've also contacted David R about Archlinux + Trinity, he has made some progress and i'll be working through bugs with him hopefully |
kb9vqf | OK |
kb9vqf | Logs are up |
kb9vqf | I don't know if they will update automatically yet |
kb9vqf | And there is some work to be done with splitting them month to month |
kb9vqf | But they are there :) |
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Piki | pfft, just hit "CTRL+Shift+T" in rekonq cause i closed a tab by accident, it reloaded all the tabs i've closed, instead of just the last one |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: okay great! |
MutantTurkey | okay I am going to make a list of pages that may/should move to the main site |
kb9vqf | Sounds good |
kb9vqf | IRC log automatic updates work :) |
samelian | kb9vqf: I think we must to find someone for cmake conversion |
kb9vqf | Yes |
kb9vqf | toxic_devil said he'd take a look at your Wiki page |
samelian | because we are only qt developer, our skills can be used for programming |
kb9vqf | Right |
samelian | cmake is too simple for us :) |
kb9vqf | Correct |
samelian | actually cmake can be learn very easy just reading CMakeLists.txt |
samelian | kb9vqf: send an announce to lists that we recruiting cmake porters |
samelian | I will mentoring him |
MutantTurkey | I can help. |
samelian | in this, when you ready, I will start to teach you :) |
samelian | in this case* |
kb9vqf | samelian: Is your Wiki article finished then? |
kb9vqf | I'll send the announce once I have something to refer to |
samelian | is not, I'm not sure how far I must to go with explanations |
samelian | I assume that who want to help with cmake, must read cmake docs at first time |
kb9vqf | So the process is not straightforward enough to do without reading the CMake docs? |
kb9vqf | A lot of people will not bother to read those docs |
samelian | will be easy to do for usual tasks |
MutantTurkey | samelian: okay great, I am nearing website completion, hopefully this week if i am not to busy. I am anxious to work on cmake |
samelian | don't |
samelian | is really simple |
samelian | I think you will need to read a little, to understand basics |
kb9vqf | Why don't you put a link to the section(s) you think people should read first |
kb9vqf | Something like Read This First: |
samelian | good ideea |
samelian | the barrier is my poor english, is hard for me to write docs |
kb9vqf | Right |
kb9vqf | I understand |
samelian | i preffer to teach someone with solid english background |
kb9vqf | Just get the essentials down |
kb9vqf | MutantTurkey: I have another task for you..... |
samelian | then, he can continue my doc |
kb9vqf | Once you learn CMake you can clean up samelian's Wiki article :) |
MutantTurkey | I better make a list :p |
MutantTurkey | samelian: yeah, I can help you with english. |
MutantTurkey | for documentation. |
samelian | MutantTurkey: you will enjoy when your cmake will be able to compile a big part of trinity :) |
MutantTurkey | :D |
Piki | we have to be able to understand poor english in linux, linux is global and not everyone is good with english ;-) |
samelian | hehe |
kb9vqf | So true |
samelian | I need to learn it, but I have no time to take some formal lessons |
MutantTurkey | one trick is to watch american or British tv shows. |
Piki | there are translators like Google Translate or AltaVista bablefish (i think that's it), they aren't perfect, but can help |
samelian | and I'm too lazy to read english grammar books ;) |
kb9vqf | I've been told they don't work for ru-->en |
MutantTurkey | Piki: google translate is my savior for linux. many russian speakers |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: they work well enough |
kb9vqf | Oh |
kb9vqf | Maybe it was en-->ru |
*kb9vqf forgets |
MutantTurkey | both ways I've been okay with. |
MutantTurkey | usually its not good grammer |
kb9vqf | Hmm |
MutantTurkey | but passable. |
kb9vqf | OK |
Piki | yeah, translators don't do grammar well, but they can do words and small phrases decently |
Piki | two problems with TV shows: it can be hard to sound out words for typing sometimes, and while the grammar will be the same between different english-speaking countries, they can sometimes have different slang and figurativeterms |
MutantTurkey | agreed. |
kb9vqf | Yes, and American TV shows typically slur and utilize bad grammar |
Piki | and not everyone uses good grammar |
Piki | kb9vqf: exactly, and mispronounce an' all dat |
kb9vqf | Yes :) |
MutantTurkey | when is 3.5.13 due? we are on 6th month cycle? |
kb9vqf | Right now yes |
kb9vqf | But the CMake port is a blocker |
kb9vqf | It must be finished before 3.5.13 (3.6.0?) can be released |
samelian | automake do not working anymore? |
MutantTurkey | agreed. |
kb9vqf | samelian: No |
kb9vqf | It broke badly |
MutantTurkey | also what about HAL? i would like to see that go |
kb9vqf | It may have to wait |
kb9vqf | We'll see where samelian is after the CMake port is finished :) |
samelian | haha |
MutantTurkey | how long/ how far are we on that? |
kb9vqf | CMake? |
MutantTurkey | yes |
samelian | depends you you consider "trinity" |
samelian | what you* |
kb9vqf | I say the entire codebase that is in SVN |
samelian | wow |
kb9vqf | Yes |
samelian | that's big |
kb9vqf | Yes it is |
kb9vqf | Hence my thought that a delay is needed |
kb9vqf | Now I know some of it is already converted to CMake |
Piki | it isn't always good to work on a specific deadline, it can either pushed back and get users mad, or force you to put out a bad release and make users mad |
kb9vqf | rosegarden, etc. |
kb9vqf | Piki: Correct |
kb9vqf | Think of this particular release date as a suggestion |
kb9vqf | If the bugs aren't fixed they aren't fixed and we can't release |
kb9vqf | I want a high quality 3.6.0 |
Piki | exactly |
MutantTurkey | 3.6 is: hal gone, updated libraries completely? CMake fully? |
kb9vqf | CMake for sure |
MutantTurkey | what about new features that users will actually see. |
kb9vqf | HAL gone if possible |
kb9vqf | Lots of bugfixes |
MutantTurkey | i mean, backend stuff is good. but, honestly? a user doesn't care hal vs udisks |
kb9vqf | MutantTurkey: They do care about stability |
MutantTurkey | which is I would say #1 importance |
kb9vqf | I would like to see those bugs in Bugzilla taken care of |
kb9vqf | *Completely* stabilize 3.6.0 |
kb9vqf | No more random crashing anywhere :) |
Piki | we don't even put suggested release dates at ark, people tend to read those as definitive |
MutantTurkey | hopefully have Arch packages :) |
kb9vqf | That follows CMake :) |
MutantTurkey | yes. |
MutantTurkey | Cmake is the blocker because we can't develop if we cannot build. |
kb9vqf | If you, toxic_devil, and some others can get CMake finished it would free samelian and I up to work on those other things |
kb9vqf | Feel free to recruit warm bodies for the CMake task ;-) |
samelian | most and hardest cmake tasks was done, actually |
samelian | now is just boring :) |
kb9vqf | Right |
samelian | right now i'm on trinity built with cmake |
kb9vqf | MutantTurkey: If you want to put together a CMake recruitment Email I'll forward it to the list |
samelian | so, is good enough for me :) |
kb9vqf | samelian: How is it treating you? Find any irritating bugs yet? |
samelian | nope |
Piki | kb9vqf: i'd say instead of rewriting the HAL code for udev, rewrite it in much the same fashion as tqt, as in make it so that all we need to do to change the hardware backend is create a wrapper for the backend that TDE can plug. dunno if that's doable, but if so it can make things easier |
kb9vqf | Great :) |
samelian | actually small annoing crashes |
samelian | klipper |
kb9vqf | Piki: That's exactly what we're doing |
samelian | and very rare, kmail |
kb9vqf | Backtraces would help |
samelian | yes, klipper make some strange |
samelian | crashing in qt |
kb9vqf | stack corrupt, etc? |
kb9vqf | ick |
samelian | nope |
kb9vqf | Oh |
samelian | something about mime |
kb9vqf | MimeSource |
samelian | crashing when I select something from qt3 assistant |
kb9vqf | Huh |
MutantTurkey | I can put together an email, what mailing list? |
samelian | that's really annoying |
kb9vqf | Send it to trinity-announce |
MutantTurkey | Also, are we trying to recruit any qt devels? jw |
kb9vqf | I'll proofread it and sent it out |
kb9vqf | YES |
MutantTurkey | ah I'll shoot it past you and you can email it. |
samelian | qt3 devels are very rare :) |
kb9vqf | Qt devs in general |
MutantTurkey | all dinosaurs now :p |
kb9vqf | Good ones that is :) |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: yeah. I've made alot of friends with linux, maybe be some help if any are qt devels |
samelian | as far I know, I and kb9vqf are last mohicans :) |
kb9vqf | I hope not! |
samelian | actually for me is the same, i'm an old programmer |
samelian | so no matter to much the framework |
kb9vqf | That's the way it should be IMHO |
samelian | i'm not exactly a C++ guru, but is enough for usual tasks |
kb9vqf | That's fine |
kb9vqf | I'm mostly handling the really weird stuff most people see once in a lifetime |
samelian | hehe |
MutantTurkey | I am just a C programmer, I have no formal training though |
MutantTurkey | just bumming around and patching stuff. |
samelian | however, about cmake, the big scary tasks like kdelibs, kdebase, kdevelop and quanta are done |
samelian | now we need to finish the small applications |
samelian | I don't expect much troubles with it |
samelian | actually kopete is partial done, but I will finish it myself |
MutantTurkey | what version broke automake? |
MutantTurkey | samelian: will it be mostly the same for each application? i can do the grunt work |
samelian | pretty much |
samelian | will be almost copy/paste, copy/paste |
samelian | you just must follow some rules |
samelian | I created some cmake template files, for usual tasks |
MutantTurkey | excellent |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: I don't know much to say, I'll keep it short. |
kb9vqf | MutantTurkey: I don't know. Something after Ubuntu Maverick |
kb9vqf | And short is OK |
kb9vqf | :) |
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MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: okay I've emailed you. |
field_it | hi |
field_it | did my msgs get through? |
field_it | dunno |
field_it | I'll post'em again.. |
field_it | problem is: the trinity window-manager entry (name) in the drop down menu of ?dm does not match the name in debian. I'd like to fix this, get rid of the warning "name not available any longer".. |
field_it | where are the menu entries created? |
field_it | in debian kde3 is now called trinity, in ubuntu it's called kde3.. |
field_it | I need it either way.. identical.. |
field_it | nevermind |
field_it | got it |
Piki | field_it: i think you would need to look up it up for your DM, they do things different |
kb9vqf | MutantTurkey: Sent |
kb9vqf | Thanks! |
Piki | and the packager for debian/ubuntu would need to fix the name in the packager |
Piki | in the packages* |
samelian | kb9vqf: pls tell me syntax for tables, for foswiki |
kb9vqf | samelian: | Column 1 | Column 2 |
kb9vqf | samelian: | Column 1 | Column 2 | |
kb9vqf | ^^ |
kb9vqf | Newline |
kb9vqf | then |
samelian | thx |
kb9vqf | | Data1 | Data 2 | |
kb9vqf | np |
field_it | Piki: it's just a file in /usr/share/xsessions/ |
field_it | rename the file appropriately, change the name directive inside the file accordingly and you're done :) |
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Xu_R | kb9vqf: woah. new theme for the Trinity wiki caught me by surprise - used to seeing too much blue ;) |
kb9vqf | It came with the upgrade |
kb9vqf | Is it good or bad? |
Xu_R | very good. the last one was an eyesore. |
kb9vqf | Glad to hear it :) |
Xu_R | :) |
Xu_R | oh s*** my workers died |
Xu_R | no wait... my scheduler. |
Space_Man | lol, you must feed your workers |
Xu_R | LOL |
Xu_R | my ARM and x86_64 workers are failing D: |
Xu_R | *schedulers |
Piki | you need a new datebook for 2011, your old 2010 is full |
Xu_R | AHHHHH. I sent my scheduler into heart attack mode by restarting it too many times >_< |
*Xu_R finally fixed his scheduler - in the process, added an ia64 arch |
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MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: great saw the email |
kb9vqf | Now we'll see if anyone responds :) |
Xu_R | MutantTurkey: I'm guessing you were the person who wrote the email? :P |
kb9vqf | Yes he was |
Xu_R | nice nice. |
MutantTurkey | Xu_R: yes sir |
Xu_R | :D |
MutantTurkey | had my father check it first :P he is quite good at sending out annoucements |
Xu_R | niceee :D |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: what would you say to a "developers profile" page? http://www.archlinux.org/developers/ |
MutantTurkey | I think it would be good so we could have a solid contact list. |
MutantTurkey | for example, I had no idea someone else was working on Arch. contacting people directly is often helpful. |
Xu_R | MutantTurkey: as people come and go, will we always remember to update the page? :| |
MutantTurkey | well look |
MutantTurkey | the trick is: assign a website maintainer |
MutantTurkey | obviously the solution, so it won't be long over due like this time. |
Piki | what if the site maintainer goes? then who takes care of it? |
MutantTurkey | a maintainer will a) keep it updated b) add/remove based on events and such c) be composed of a single or team of people (size of it) d) it keeps the developers working |
MutantTurkey | Piki: you get a new one. |
MutantTurkey | and site maintainers, do come and go. same as developers and users. |
MutantTurkey | but by assigning someone the position, it becomes their responsability |
Piki | well, sometimes it could be awhile before we notice they're gone, and they might not know they're about to disappear until something comes up and may not have the time to notify us |
MutantTurkey | a while before we notice? I was thinking someone who is a regular. |
kb9vqf | If this is the case then the list should be maintained on a Wiki page |
MutantTurkey | also again, it is their job to notify us if they cannot handle it. |
MutantTurkey | I just think assigning jobs is a sure way to get stuff done |
Piki | also again, something may come up and they may not have the time to notify us |
MutantTurkey | then they are gone? |
MutantTurkey | it is not such a problme. |
MutantTurkey | the website isn't updated often |
MutantTurkey | just for new information / annoucements. |
MutantTurkey | also, that is alot of ifs and mays |
MutantTurkey | WHAT IF THEY GOT HIJACKED BY A BUNCH OF CRAZY NATIONALIST PARTY MEMBERS THAT THEN JOINED FORCES WITH GUERILLA FIGHTERS FROM CANADA, WHO THEN PROCEEDED TO HOLD HIM HOSTAGE ON A TRILLION DOLLARS BAIL? |
kb9vqf | Now now, be nice :) |
*Xu_R just got an email about the GA of F15 Alpha 1 that's currently on the serverbeach |
MutantTurkey | i mean, we can't take into all factors for anything. alot can happen, and yes people come and go, but by assigning someone the duty, there is a better chance at it being updated. |
Xu_R | MutantTurkey is very confident in his views ;) |
Piki | i agree with kb9vqf, if we do make a page like that, we should do it on the wiki |
MutantTurkey | agreed. |
Piki | that way, we don't have to worry about if the webmaster disappears, someone else can remove them |
MutantTurkey | Piki: again, you are making the "webmaster" job sound complicated. |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf would still have access obviously to it. it is his server. simple as adding or removing a few lines from a file. |
Piki | no, i'm just taking into account if someone disappeared |
kb9vqf | Heh |
kb9vqf | I'm the founder |
MutantTurkey | then you move them to inactive/past members. |
kb9vqf | I will always be here :) |
MutantTurkey | what if you dissapear? |
MutantTurkey | D: |
MutantTurkey | what if . |
Piki | and webmastering can be complicated, i am a webmaster |
MutantTurkey | Piki: we are keeping it extremely simple. |
kb9vqf | What if a bus hit me tomorrow? |
MutantTurkey | well. we better just quit while we are ahead |
kb9vqf | Let's keep things in the realm of "likely" please :) |
Piki | i always try to be prepared for the unexpected |
MutantTurkey | since something may happen to any of us at any given time. |
MutantTurkey | let us just quit. |
kb9vqf | I do understand |
kb9vqf | But the simple fact is the services are running on my equipment |
Xu_R | kb9vqf: You better not be hit by a bus! >: |
Xu_R | XD |
kb9vqf | There is always a weak link/choke point/whatever you want to call it |
Piki | yes, and we need to be prepared for those to keep things running |
Piki | otherwise, things will fall apart at some point |
Piki | sure, we can't predict everything |
kb9vqf | I look at it this way; if I can no longer maintain Trinity and host the services I have then I would relinquish control of the fork |
Piki | but we should do our best to prepare |
kb9vqf | But for now that is not my intention! |
MutantTurkey | and for now, i intend to webmaster |
kb9vqf | Fine with me :) |
MutantTurkey | basically that whole long slew was about how I'd like to be the webmaster. |
kb9vqf | I appreciate the help |
MutantTurkey | because its obvious things are hecktic around here, you are busy and don't have time. my hobby is doing internet stuff. i have alot of time. |
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MutantTurkey | okay, kb9vqf i have a list of potential things i think should be moved to the website, or revised in the wiki. |
MutantTurkey | the Roadmap and ToDo are in effect the same, with similar purpose. It would be better to combine them, having them on the website means it is easier for users to see progress and future improvements. (this could also mean just a direct link to the wiki) |
Xu_R | oh. my. god. Epoch: 30000000 D: that's terrible |
MutantTurkey | DL |
Xu_R | sorry, just had to put that out there. >_< |
kb9vqf | MutantTurkey: OK |
kb9vqf | Dou you have the website running now? |
kb9vqf | The test one that is? |
kb9vqf | I didn't get a chance to look at it yet: |
MutantTurkey | yes |
MutantTurkey | http://96.245.17.6/ |
MutantTurkey | I've got to help my father purchase a laptop for his work. |
MutantTurkey | I might be on later. |
MutantTurkey | just let me know what you think |
Xu_R | "A Big thank you to all who have helped blah blah blah Lorem Ipsum Lorem Ipsum ask kb. Thanks!" |
Xu_R | +1 :P |
kb9vqf | Of course it will need editing ;-) |
kb9vqf | Errr...rewriting.... |
kb9vqf | But overall I'm looking at design and navigation for now |
kb9vqf | MutantTurkey: We have mailing lists twice |
kb9vqf | I'd kind of like a "Contact" or "Support" tab where we can have the IRC information |
kb9vqf | Also, a "Screenshots" tab would be nice |
kb9vqf | And maybe "Supported Distributions" |
kb9vqf | And a "Home" tab perhaps |
kb9vqf | Otherwise it looks good |
Piki | kb9vqf: maybe you can setup an email for you, samelian, and an email for the entire TDE team and have an email form on the site? |
MutantTurkey | yeah sorry, i Just copied the links over |
MutantTurkey | still are replacing them. |
kb9vqf | Piki: Sounds like a good idea |
kb9vqf | Also, I wonder if an online IRC chat window is a good idea or not? |
kb9vqf | Under the "Support" tab :) |
MutantTurkey | NO |
kb9vqf | OK |
kb9vqf | Just a thought |
MutantTurkey | redirect them to webchat.freenode.net |
MutantTurkey | webchat is great, i use it at school. straight foreward |
kb9vqf | That's all I was looking for |
kb9vqf | An easy way for an IRC novice to ask questions |
MutantTurkey | so, 1)supported distros YES 2) home? TDE logo sends you home 3) screen shots definitely 4) Contact/Support yes good idea |
Piki | not everyone knows to use the logo as a link to home, took me a long time to figure that out ;-) |
kb9vqf | I would not have though of that either |
Piki | we can use the freenode qwebirc to create an embedded webirc for the site that would auto-direct to this channel when it connects to freenode, maybe even set a custom nick |
Piki | just an idea |
kb9vqf | Asking people for a nick before connection would be a good ide |
kb9vqf | *idea |
kb9vqf | Also a little checkbox "I agree to the terms and conditions and will be polite" |
kb9vqf | Before it allows a connection ;-) |
Xu_R | samelian~ ah crap, he always leaves when I want to ask a question. |
Piki | kb9vqf: the custom nick can be set to changeable |
Xu_R | ah, nevermind. found the answer via the ml |
Piki | i don't think it allows an "I agree to ..." box, but it does have recaptcha |
Piki | it doesn't need a preset nick, it's optional |
MutantTurkey | kb9vqf: eh. I disagree. |
MutantTurkey | that is overboard. |
MutantTurkey | adding widgets to the page just isn't really appealing and loading java/whatever applets can be slow. but i may be wrong. |
MutantTurkey | I think better would be a link to "click here to access the IRC" and link to it easily. maybe set the channel and everything |
MutantTurkey | Piki, Xu_R, kb9vqf: can you all send me a few pictures of your Trinity Desktops? (with windows and such, but also one of just desktop) for the screenshots page? I'd like to get some variety. |
Piki | MutantTurkey: if you can do the ark linux packages for me ;-) |
Xu_R | MutantTurkey: I'll do it in a little bit. I've got a Unity Linux VM instance running and i'm trying to sort out Qt3 stuff right now. |
Piki | haven't had a chance to finish my build server |
Xu_R | Do you mind if I just throw them in trinity-devel? |
Xu_R | i |
Xu_R | 'll make sure to make the subject "For MutantTurkey" XD |
Xu_R | (valentine's day special trololol) |
MutantTurkey | sure thing :D |
MutantTurkey | be mine? :p |
MutantTurkey | yeah over the ml or just at me, MutantTurkey@gmail so whatever works |
Xu_R | hehe :P |
Xu_R | anyone know what the mandriva version macro is? mdkversion or something? >_> |
Xu_R | never mind, found it. guessed it right ;) |
Piki | anybody in PA? i need a good psychiatric institution to put my mom in. everything bad that happens is automatically me, not her or the poor designers of the tech she uses, but me, and there's no convincing her otherwise, even if i never touched it, and i'm not dealing with it any more |
Piki | i need a place that will get her FIXED |
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Gingerbread-Man | hello all :-) |
Gingerbread-Man | geussing at this time of night the channel is dead .... |
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Gingerbread-Man | hi Space_Man |
*TokRa has noticed: Trinity DE has been mentionned on http://habrahabr.ru/blogs/linux/113479/ |
MutantTurkey | Pikii I am |
MutantTurkey | Gingerbread-Man: yea everyone is asleep |
MutantTurkey | this is much to early for me anyway |
Space_Man | hi Gingerbread-Man |
Space_Man | I'm awake ;) |
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TokRa | toxic_devil: |
toxic_devil | TokRa: прив |
TokRa | toxic_devil: загляни на http://habrahabr.ru/blogs/linux/113479/ |
TokRa | там как раз про КДЁ3 |
toxic_devil | TokRa: я смотрел ты же мне в оф в жаббер ссылку кинула |
toxic_devil | ^^ |
TokRa | ^_^ |
TokRa | 914 посещений оттуда |
TokRa | и судя по логфайлам серверов, народ исошки качает постоянно :) |
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toxic_devil | TokRa: да что качает то качает |
toxic_devil | кто бы в разработке помог |
toxic_devil | TokRa: у них же девелоперов не хватает |
toxic_devil | а кто умеет они не чухаются |
toxic_devil | ибо юзают 4 - е кеды |
toxic_devil | УРОДЫ!!! |
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TokRa | 4-е это не кеды, а галоши |
TokRa | надетые на валенки |
TokRa | иначе схему с akonadi не назовёшь |
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TokRa | и ещё на костылях |
TokRa | картина маслом :) |
toxic_devil | TokRa: ага не говори |
toxic_devil | блин у проекта рекламы нету |
toxic_devil | многие вообще о нем не знают |
TokRa | надо писать в Википедиях |
TokRa | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_Desktop_Environment_3#Forking |
toxic_devil | TokRa: знаешь |
toxic_devil | я что то так в опенсорс сообществе разочаровался((( |
*TokRa сама в себе разочаровалась: помнится, весной собиралась web ресурс Trinity создать, переписывалась с Timothy по этому поводу, но по многим причинам (лень в том числе) это так и осталось намерениями :( |
TokRa | А теперь Timothy меня похоже игнорирует: обиделся, наверное :( |
toxic_devil | TokRa: да ну не |
toxic_devil | у мну ребята ебилды на базовую систему сделали подпилили |
toxic_devil | вот ша вроде самелиан на вики должен выложить мануал чтоб сьфке писать |
toxic_devil | а там дело дальше пойдет |
kb9vqf | Why are you upset TokRa_upset? |
MutantTurkey | I'll be gone all weekend on a trip to pittsburgh, If i have access to a machine i can ssh and keep working. |
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<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="ChanServ" time="2011-02-11T04:56:58Z">+o tbottu </mode> |
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*TokRa pings tbottu |
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Piki | hi |
*TokRa salutes Piki |
*Piki bows |
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<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="ChanServ" time="2011-02-11T15:15:55Z">+o tbottu </mode> |
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<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="calvino.freenode.net" time="2011-02-11T15:27:16Z">+o kb9vqf </mode> |
<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="tbottu" time="2011-02-11T15:27:17Z">+i </mode> |
tbottu | I just saw a lot of joins happen very quickly. Because of that I set this channel's mode to be Invite Only... I'll set it -i in 5 minutes |
tbottu | I just saw a lot of joins happen very quickly. Because of that I set this channel's mode to be Invite Only... I'll set it -i in 5 minutes |
tbottu | I just saw a lot of joins happen very quickly. Because of that I set this channel's mode to be Invite Only... I'll set it -i in 5 minutes |
*tbottu was going to say 'I just saw a lot of joins happen very quickly. Because of that I set this channel's mode to be Invite Only... I'll set it -i in 5 minutes' but has said it too many times today already |
<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="tbottu" time="2011-02-11T15:32:17Z">-i </mode> |
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*Strangelv has a friend wvho's struggling in vait to turn off the minotior power off. It messes up her keyboard video mouse adapter which seems to not work again until one or both machines ar erebooted... |
*Strangelv looks in the bug tracker, but doesn't see anything that's clearyl the problem, let alone a wokraround |
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toxic_devil | samelian: привет |
toxic_devil | samelian: нужна твоя помошь |
samelian | later, now I must to go |
toxic_devil | samelian: ok |
toxic_devil | samelian: configure: WARNING: You are attempting to compile Trinity without the Trinity Qt Interface installed. Please install libtqtinterface-dev and try again! |
toxic_devil | WHY??? |
toxic_devil | все установленно |
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TokRa | toxic_devil: а не надо разве указывать, где установлено, например --with-tqt=/папка/куда/установлено или нечто в этом роде? |
toxic_devil | TokRa: не в этом дело |
toxic_devil | мну разраб короче нужен |
kb9vqf | Strangelv: Xorg power management is strange to say the least |
kb9vqf | I don't think Trinity has any control over it |
toxic_devil | kb9vqf: hi |
kb9vqf | Hello |
toxic_devil | kb9vqf: see?? |
kb9vqf | OK |
kb9vqf | Is this from SVN or the 3.5.12 tarballs? |
toxic_devil | kb9vqf: yes |
kb9vqf | ? |
kb9vqf | Is it from SVN? |
toxic_devil | kb9vqf: it is from svn |
kb9vqf | OK |
kb9vqf | Did you install tqtinterface, arts, and kdelibs from SVN as well? |
kb9vqf | And did you use CMake? |
toxic_devil | kb9vqf: wait |
toxic_devil | I'm not doing it |
toxic_devil | My friend is doing |
kb9vqf | Oh, OK |
kb9vqf | It looks like kdelibs is not installed |
kb9vqf | IMHO |
toxic_devil | tqtinterface,kdelibs from SVN |
toxic_devil | without arts |
toxic_devil | ./configure ... --without-arts |
toxic_devil | kdelibs and tqtinterface over cmake |
kb9vqf | And they were all installed to the same prefix? |
kb9vqf | samelian: Ever seen this with CMake? ^^^ |
kb9vqf | "checking if UIC has KDE plugins available... no" |
samelian | kb9vqf: what? |
kb9vqf | samelian: He seems to be running into the UIC KDE plugins problem when attempting to build kdebase from SVN |
kb9vqf | I have not seen this before |
kb9vqf | toxic_devil: You are building with Qt3 correct? |
kb9vqf | Your friend that is |
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toxic_devil | samelian: c qt все впорядке |
toxic_devil | samelian: что есть правильно? |
samelian | toxic_devil: you using cmake or automake? |
kb9vqf | samelian: CMake |
samelian | what is problem, actually? |
toxic_devil | kdelibs and tqtinterface over cmake |
samelian | but what is the problem? |
toxic_devil | Вы чо упоролись ??? |
toxic_devil | автоконф уже умеет параметры вида -DWITH_*=ON ? )) |
toxic_devil | А??? |
toxic_devil | ку ку ку |
samelian | if you pass parameter -DWITH_*=ON to configure script, this not meaning that you using cmake :) |
samelian | cmake don't use configure |
toxic_devil | samelian: одну минуту |
toxic_devil | я чо то не пойму как он собирает |
toxic_devil | О,О |
toxic_devil | О.о |
toxic_devil | х.х |
toxic_devil | samelian: мой друг провалился в консоль((( |
toxic_devil | ^^ |
toxic_devil | samelian: вообщем |
toxic_devil | samelian: нам не хватает слов чтоб обьяснить что мы сделали |
toxic_devil | samelian: я думаю мы сами справимся |
samelian | ok |
kb9vqf | thanks for handling that :) |
toxic_devil | kb9vqf: ^^ |
toxic_devil | kb9vqf: I hope we have of this is that something will |
kb9vqf | ? |
kb9vqf | I don't know much about CMake myself |
toxic_devil | kb9vqf: Learn Russian :-D |
kb9vqf | Hehe |
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samelian | kb9vqf: trinity have any class for manipulating sockets? |
samelian | i mean, resolving name and connect |
kb9vqf | samelian: Yes |
kb9vqf | KResolver |
kb9vqf | KClientSocket |
kb9vqf | KServerSocket |
kb9vqf | IIRC |
samelian | thx |
kb9vqf | np |
samelian | it's easy to use system calls, but I want to use trinity API when is possible |
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MutantTurkey | o/ |
*TokRa detects MutantTurkey's presence ! |
MutantTurkey | hey |
MutantTurkey | i luckily have ssh setup so i can work on linux while away from home |
MutantTurkey | http://96.245.17.6/ |
MutantTurkey | there is almost zero php work, just an include for the header and footer. the top panel and link bar are both defined with css. |
MutantTurkey | other than that, straight up normal html. |
TokRa | I see |
MutantTurkey | the website is slow enough already, i saw no reason to make it even worse. Tim mentioned that simplicity was essential |
TokRa | Which is the goal to achieve? |
MutantTurkey | simple |
MutantTurkey | the pages are going to be relatively static. |
*TokRa 'd like to see some visual layout, a pictured design if available, to get the main idea and put it on the backend |
TokRa | should there be some content management? |
MutantTurkey | i say no. |
MutantTurkey | the thing with a CMS is that is is just going to make everything more complicated. |
MutantTurkey | these web pages don't really change often. |
MutantTurkey | the pages are laid out simply enough to edit by hand. |
MutantTurkey | I would understand if we were constantly updating, but the only updates are releases. |
MutantTurkey | I think for such an simple website, there is no point of putting a whole CMS on it. |
TokRa | if so, is there a need to change the provided content at all? |
TokRa | MutantTurkey: your web version looks nice enough to me |
MutantTurkey | the code is beautiful |
MutantTurkey | well simple at least. I think we need a modern site, but don't need to use any sort of backend. |
MutantTurkey | especially since the web server is already slow as heck :/ |
MutantTurkey | the header has all the links, so it takes care of the problem. |
TokRa | and my objective would be... ? |
MutantTurkey | no idea. |
TokRa | :D |
MutantTurkey | I'm not sure why Tim thought i needed help. |
*TokRa neither |
MutantTurkey | i understand his concern. because I am not good at php. |
MutantTurkey | but we don't really need anything complicated for this project. |
TokRa | I realize, the php programming is not even needed |
MutantTurkey | ? |
MutantTurkey | how else can we easily include header and footer? |
TokRa | I mean, the complicated programming |
MutantTurkey | oh |
MutantTurkey | samelian is helping me out with css when i have questions. from here mostly though, the layout is finished. |
MutantTurkey | I am working on adding the content and converting pages. |
MutantTurkey | I was also thinking about transferring certain pages from the wiki to the website, since some don't really belong on the wikil |
MutantTurkey | http://96.245.17.6/WIKICONVERT.txt |
*TokRa has nothing to do with this then? If I have understood you correctly. |
MutantTurkey | I don't think I need your help at this point. |
MutantTurkey | if Tim and I decide that we need something more complicated I will ask you. |
TokRa | Sure |
MutantTurkey | I'm off to eat dinner. Hopefully i can stop in later. |
TokRa | :) |
MutantTurkey | cya |
TokRa | ^_^ |
Xu_R | ARGHH. the Mandriva packager that tired to create Trinity rpms - I'm just looking at them and tearing my hair out >_< |
Xu_R | they aren't bad |
Xu_R | but the Epoch: 600000000 breaks installations >_< |
kb9vqf | Heh |
kb9vqf | Sounds like me many years ago |
kb9vqf | ;-) |
Xu_R | correction: 300000001. |
Xu_R | adgbfuoasdbf apparently previous mandriva maintainer didn't know how to use it. |
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<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="ChanServ" time="2011-02-12T18:40:55Z">+o tbottu </mode> |
<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="tbottu" time="2011-02-12T18:42:35Z">+o kb9vqf </mode> |
Xu_R | wb kb9vqf |
kb9vqf | ? |
kb9vqf | Oh, welcome back :) |
kb9vqf | Slight network outage last night |
kb9vqf | Seems my ISP did not do what they were supposed to do :-P |
Xu_R | :P |
Xu_R | do they ever XD |
kb9vqf | Hehe |
Xu_R | kb9vqf: i've been making progress: arts and tqtinterface for fedora and mandriva are going well. still have to fix opensuse, but that shouldn't be a problem |
kb9vqf | Glad to hear it |
Xu_R | samelian: can you add a dependency check for cmake on arts? It needs to check for the existence of ltdl.h so that it doesn't fail compiling later |
Xu_R | kb9vqf: spec restructuring seems to be a big success right now :D once I hit kdebase3, that's the hard part :( |
kb9vqf | Yes it is |
kb9vqf | Wait until you get to kdepim :-P |
Xu_R | oh jeez. xD |
samelian | Xu_R: i will |
Xu_R | ty samelian :D |
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MutantTurkey | o/ |
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toxic_devil | hi allllllllll |
Xu_R | ohai |
toxic_devil | russian like vodka |
toxic_devil | and like TDE |
Xu_R | o_o? |
toxic_devil | TDE & Vodka = Friendship |
toxic_devil | |
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