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kb9vqf	MutantTurkey
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* kb9vqf stays offline for now due to buggy webirc connection
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kb9vqf	New logs at http://trinitydesktop.org/irc/logs_current.html
kb9vqf	formatting is cleaner/easier to read
kb9vqf	And best of all, tbottu shouldn't drop off the channel every week like before :)
tbottu	10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 69 from system to ubuntu.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=69 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, UNCONFIRMED, Jaunty AMD64 LiveCD Boot Failure
MutantTurkey	nice it works.
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: so we are all set for the whole bugwatch right?
kb9vqf	I believe so...
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: lets hope i can clone this then...
MutantTurkey	I rebooted my connection, still seems to cut out pretty fast
kb9vqf	There are a lot of files there
kb9vqf	I have noticed similar behaviour on my cell phone link as well
MutantTurkey	hmmm it seemed that if i do ctrl+z (i forget what that does, freeze the program in midair i think) and then do fg it will start working agian.
kb9vqf	(granted not with git, but just with normal downloads)
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: yes, this is my cell connection :P
MutantTurkey	could i just download the raw files?
MutantTurkey	clone onto my server, then wget the files :P
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: your connection also seems slow
kb9vqf	I don't know if that will work
MutantTurkey	i'll try it nonetheless.
kb9vqf	would it be easier to send over the files you want uploaded in a tar file and I will commit them?
MutantTurkey	lets see if this works then do that.
kb9vqf	my connection may very well be slow :-P
MutantTurkey	this is working so far.
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: okay this is not going to work
MutantTurkey	I will tar it up.
MutantTurkey	I do not have a way to email you however.
MutantTurkey	can I pm you a link to my website of the tarball?
kb9vqf	yews
kb9vqf	*yes
MutantTurkey	actually no idea how i can do that D:
kb9vqf	well, it can wait I suppose
MutantTurkey	because I am tethered i don't know my ip hrm hold up
kb9vqf	when will you be on a better connection?
MutantTurkey	tuesday
kb9vqf	it can wait until then I would think :)
MutantTurkey	ok :{
MutantTurkey	actually i'll see what i can do
kb9vqf	it's up to you
MutantTurkey	no go.
MutantTurkey	I don't have any way to upload it.
kb9vqf	It's OK
kb9vqf	don't waste your time
kb9vqf	I'll see you on Tuesday :)
MutantTurkey	wait i think i have it
MutantTurkey	nevermind again.
kb9vqf	Like I said don't waste your time
kb9vqf	Here's an idea
kb9vqf	Do you think we could prioritize the bugs by difficulty?
kb9vqf	I know the difficulty isn't set in stone, but simple malfunctions could probably be fixed first
kb9vqf	(apparently simple that is)
kb9vqf	if you want to go through the bugtracker and start making an Etherpad list of simple bugs I would appreciate it
MutantTurkey	hmmm wait we can another boolean reight?
MutantTurkey	i'll see what i can do
kb9vqf	well I was just thinking a separate list on the Etherpad
MutantTurkey	okay.
MutantTurkey	we started that stuff
kb9vqf	ordered by estimated difficulty, simplest ones on top
MutantTurkey	okay.
kb9vqf	I know and then it disappeared :(
kb9vqf	But then again I remember it being pretty badly incomplete...
MutantTurkey	i was starting a small list on the etherpad
kb9vqf	I'll just say for the record that the first Etherpad installation was a test
kb9vqf	I never expected it to be as good a tool as it was
kb9vqf	so I wasn't very careful with it
MutantTurkey	it really is
MutantTurkey	okay i got my friend to email me the thing
MutantTurkey	so i am shooting it to you
kb9vqf	ok, thanks
MutantTurkey	titled thingy
MutantTurkey	my friend didn't understand it at all
kb9vqf	got it
kb9vqf	I'll throw it up on GIT
MutantTurkey	great thanks
MutantTurkey	as of right now i think it fails
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: That's OK; before you work on it more please check it out from GIT and keep updating it in GIT as you fix it :)
kb9vqf	Also, about the arch/master/src directory
kb9vqf	why are there tarballs in there?
MutantTurkey	no idea what that is...
MutantTurkey	oh
kb9vqf	can I just delete it?
MutantTurkey	sure
kb9vqf	ok
MutantTurkey	okay, going to look through bugs.
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: Uploaded
kb9vqf	want the link?
MutantTurkey	got it
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	great
MutantTurkey	easy bugs... hrm
MutantTurkey	can't seem to find any hah
MutantTurkey	so is the etherpad good to go for usage?
kb9vqf	yes
kb9vqf	it is stable
MutantTurkey	passwords and such are the same?
kb9vqf	and will be subject to scheduled backup now
kb9vqf	I sent new invitations to you and Xu_R
kb9vqf	oh wait, you don't have Email :-P
MutantTurkey	yeah :P
kb9vqf	hmmm
kb9vqf	I don't know how to force it
MutantTurkey	i might be able to do it on my phone
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MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: are easy bugs also enhancements?
MutantTurkey	there are some ones i see that are probably pretty simple
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tbottu	10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 411 from kdelibs to ubuntu.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=411 major, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, kdelibs4c2a-trinity "provides" missing to kdelibs4c2a
tbottu	10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 376 from system to ubuntu.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=376 major, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Unable to install 10.10 over 9.04
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kb9vqf	sorry, webirc froze up on me again
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: i don't really see that many "easy easy" ones
MutantTurkey	no kvirc?
kb9vqf	if an enhancement is easy then feel free to add it
kb9vqf	maybe the enhancements should be on a separate list
MutantTurkey	yes
kb9vqf	with that list being ordered as well from easy to hard
MutantTurkey	also i think i am going to mark some more important
kb9vqf	yes
kb9vqf	maybe another list ordered by importance
kb9vqf	bugzilla can do that
MutantTurkey	i think some of those ubuntu are pretty critical
kb9vqf	so fix the priority fields I guess :)
MutantTurkey	yeah
kb9vqf	I think all of the bugs are set to medium priority ATM
kb9vqf	kvirc is in Trinity
kb9vqf	must be an old bug
MutantTurkey	no i meant, why are you using the webchat?
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kb9vqf	I'm on a different computer right now
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MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: alright bud. I am so tired i am unproductive. I'll talk to you tuesday when my internet is bacvk
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kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: I'm on a different computer right now, so I don't have Konversation available
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* Xu_R whistles as he reads the logs... oh damn, it actually extends past the buffer this time >_>
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Space_Man	kb9vqf: is your power back?
kb9vqf	YES!
kb9vqf	As luck would have it the utility put us on the top of the list for restoration
kb9vqf	(or pretty near it)
kb9vqf	over 800,000 perople still are without power
kb9vqf	*people
kb9vqf	Xu_R|ZNC: Power's back way ahead of schedule
kb9vqf	There is still a chance that portions of the electric grid could fail as power is restored to other customers AFAIK
kb9vqf	so if I drop back offline please don't be alarmed
kb9vqf	For anyone interested in a synopsis of the unusually strong weather at the Trinity web services location here's a graphic from a local TV station
kb9vqf	http://blog.chicagoweathercenter.com/FEATGRAPH071211.jpg
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Borg^Queen	gn
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MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: having more connectivity issues?
MutantTurkey	also anon.kde.org sucks.
kb9vqf	Internet here is absolutely horrid
kb9vqf	I got a helpful call from my ISP yesterday letting me know that they will be doing "major" maintinance in a few hours
kb9vqf	"helpful" /sarcasm
kb9vqf	Seems ol' Murphy is out to get me
kb9vqf	My hunch is that their network was severely damaged yesterday by the storms
kb9vqf	given that their call was about 6 hours later....we had registered 80MPH sustained(!) winds during the derecho event
kb9vqf	Utility company called it "blitzkreig" :-P
kb9vqf	*blitzkreig rather
kb9vqf	We will need to get some kind of load balancing in place at some point in the future if this type of stuff becomes common place
kb9vqf	Illinois is hurting for money as a whole and I suspect that some of the bad economy is eating into the utilities' preventative maintenance budgets
MutantTurkey	there have been a whole array of storms lately
MutantTurkey	still, doesn't give an excuse in my book for poor service.
kb9vqf	you should see the pictures...
kb9vqf	hang on, I'll put one on Imagebin :)
MutantTurkey	I always give the "we are actually doing everything we can" not "we are doing everything we can/
MutantTurkey	at my job, as meanial as working as a 711 clerk... I seriously try to provided maximum service and take into account the entire store at once.
MutantTurkey	so when companies tell me "they are doing everything they can" while i am watching their maintenance crews are sitting outside my sev eating and carrying on for a good part of the hour on thier clock...
MutantTurkey	anyway. I digress. I am entirely fed up with my lousy service. my router has not shown up yet.
kb9vqf	hehe
kb9vqf	one sec while I get the link...
kb9vqf	well, at my speeds right now, maybe more like a minute :-P
MutantTurkey	i'm rocking off of 3g, so it'll take about  a week to download
kb9vqf	:-P
kb9vqf	after the storms my camera and I went around documenting the damage
MutantTurkey	that impressive? huh.
MutantTurkey	no household damage i hope.
kb9vqf	trees everywhere
kb9vqf	yes, some fell on houses
kb9vqf	and cars
kb9vqf	some of the wires just snapped from the wind alone
MutantTurkey	yeah. weirdly enough my neighbor has had 4/5 tree fall in like 3 years.
kb9vqf	the corn fields were *flattened*
kb9vqf	if my connection were better I'd upload a few pics
MutantTurkey	last year it came across the street, onto the wires in front of my house, and as just leaning on the wire.
MutantTurkey	they roped it off with caution tape and left it hanging for a few days.
kb9vqf	:eek:
MutantTurkey	:|
* kb9vqf wonders if he sent a 64x64 pixel thumbnail if *that* might make it through :-P
kb9vqf	Oh and it's also fun to have the lights flickering all day
kb9vqf	probably as portions of the grid are switched back in
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: http://imagebin.org/162840
MutantTurkey	makes sense.
kb9vqf	damage in a residential area
MutantTurkey	ouch. that's not pretty.
kb9vqf	No kidding
kb9vqf	I have more pics from elsewhere
MutantTurkey	one thing i always wondered (besides the topic)
kb9vqf	Try a huge iron Farm&Fleet sign bent to the ground
MutantTurkey	is why the H-E-double hocky sticks do all word processors lack tabbing features? it's ridiculous.
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: I am glad i live on the east coast. as i say "it's boring and everything about NJ sucks. but hey, we don't get natural disasters"
kb9vqf	except the "Perfect Storm" of '92
kb9vqf	IIRC that hit the entire East coast
MutantTurkey	also in like 98
MutantTurkey	mostly our issues are minor flooding but that is about it.
kb9vqf	s/1992/1991/g
kb9vqf	:)
* kb9vqf sometimes gets dates slightly off
kb9vqf	This has certainly been a year for extremes
MutantTurkey	I am awful enough with dates as is.
kb9vqf	The south gets record tornadoes and then broils
kb9vqf	Texas is in record drought
MutantTurkey	global warming eh?
kb9vqf	hehe
kb9vqf	Actually this is not all that abnormal
MutantTurkey	actually not at all. but more like "the built up 150 years of environmental distruction.
kb9vqf	People forget that the weather is an average
MutantTurkey	global warming doesn't exist.
kb9vqf	right
MutantTurkey	but the reasons for katrina, flooding and such
MutantTurkey	is all because we destroy our natural barriers.
kb9vqf	are statistical likelihoods
kb9vqf	take my area for instance
kb9vqf	we have not had a tornado for many decades
kb9vqf	yet on average we should have one every decade or so
kb9vqf	(a big one that is)
kb9vqf	so people get complacent and when the statistics finally catch up with them things get ugly
kb9vqf	Just my $0.02 ;-)
MutantTurkey	oddly, we have had a few in philly in the past few years.
MutantTurkey	actually one touched down in my suburb, while i was in middle school.
kb9vqf	:eek:
kb9vqf	There was one back in the 60s here that completely destroyed a middle school in my general area
kb9vqf	They are nothing to mess with
kb9vqf	we still have a strict building code as a result
MutantTurkey	which is good.
kb9vqf	yes
MutantTurkey	all buildings in the midwest are brick right?
kb9vqf	No, surprisingly
MutantTurkey	all of ours are crappy and thrown together with wood and glue.
MutantTurkey	really? I've been to more of the missouri area
MutantTurkey	mostly brick their
kb9vqf	but near major tornado touchdowns they do require reinforced roofs and such
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: in comparison. there are none hear, and only brick ones are the historical ones.
kb9vqf	here they are McMansions with brick facades and cheap vinyl siding on the sides and rear
kb9vqf	They look REALLY unsafe if a tornado hit :-P
MutantTurkey	basically.
kb9vqf	nothing like bricks flying through your siding and foam insulation...
kb9vqf	anyway I think I am far enough OT for the time being :)
kb9vqf	Hopefully my power and ISP connection will stabilise in the next few days
kb9vqf	None of us has the resources to be another Google and distribute services over a dedicated fiber line
kb9vqf	Same goes for your VPS
kb9vqf	if a severe event hit the datacenter you'd be down too ;-)
MutantTurkey	what about it?
MutantTurkey	except that they have 3 data centers! :D
MutantTurkey	(i think at least)
kb9vqf	And they are all in sync?
MutantTurkey	not sure, I will ask now.
kb9vqf	That kind of technology has not been developed yet
kb9vqf	it would require insane bandwidth AFAIK
MutantTurkey	they have it.
MutantTurkey	it's in germany
MutantTurkey	I dont know how that is for weather.
kb9vqf	I would be very surprised if your VPS has transparent failover between datacenters
kb9vqf	Germany is very stable weather-wise
kb9vqf	Nothing of interest
kb9vqf	the mountains tend to destroy convective structures
kb9vqf	While tornadoes are not unheard of there, it is nothing like the Midwest of the United States ;-)
kb9vqf	This connection is driving me nuts, so I'll sign off for now
kb9vqf	Thanks for the chat
MutantTurkey	yep
MutantTurkey	I'll be around tomorrow working hours if you want to do more admin related bug work.
kb9vqf	ok, sounds good
kb9vqf	I just got done tracing more memory corruption in kdesktop
kb9vqf	fixes are in SVN
MutantTurkey	excellent.
kb9vqf	and tbottu isn't dying, even though the connection is horrid :)
MutantTurkey	Tomorrow i am going to track down that problem of building on arch, hopefully get that sorted out.
kb9vqf	So that is a major improvement
kb9vqf	Sounds good
kb9vqf	samelian was here not that long ago
MutantTurkey	tbottu seems a bit more stable lately.
tbottu	MutantTurkey: Error: "seems" is not a valid command.
MutantTurkey	:P
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: me and samelian seem to keep missing eachother.
kb9vqf	yeah
kb9vqf	I can't help too much
kb9vqf	(mainly because it works on my systems)
MutantTurkey	we need samelian, he understands cmake :)
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kb9vqf	DNS changes are propogating through the Internet as I type this
kb9vqf	Expect all services to be restored in about 24 hours
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Xu_R	i spy a kb9vqf and a tbottu
Xu_R	:o
kb9vqf	:)
Xu_R	servers connected now? :D
kb9vqf	No guaruntees that everything is fully online yet, but from what I can see everything is....
kb9vqf	if you see something down/unavailable please poke me
Xu_R	I see it online :D
kb9vqf	:)
Xu_R	:D
kb9vqf	Some info is on the Etherpad
kb9vqf	the last problem was that my ISP cut a fiber cable :-P
Space_Man	lol
kb9vqf	so we should probably have a meeting in a week or two
Xu_R	it's supposed to be tuesday...
kb9vqf	hmmm, ok
kb9vqf	I don't know how much progress others made, but obviously I wasn't able to do what I wanted to yet
Xu_R	ok, I may postpone it.
kb9vqf	specifically I am still waiting on a full Qt3/Qt4 rebuild of the latest Trinity SVN
kb9vqf	no power and no Internet made that all but impossible
Xu_R	oh. that's almost guaranting it
Xu_R	*guaranteeing (or however you spell it)
kb9vqf	yep, that's right
kb9vqf	I'll check back later...if anyone sees any services down please poke me
kb9vqf	gotta get the build farm running that build again....
MutantTurkey	o/
MutantTurkey	they!
MutantTurkey	hey'
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: tim i got backups working of kde.org
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: http://mutantturkey.com/mirrorlog.html
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Borg^Queen	hi hi
MutantTurkey	hey
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Piki	hi
Piki	yay, the sites back! :-)
kb9vqf	And ahead of schedule too :)
kb9vqf	See the July meeting etherpad for more info on the outages
Piki	btw what version of autotools did 3.5.12 need?
kb9vqf	autoconf 2.63 IIRC
kb9vqf	<= 2.63
Piki	i'm just about ready to start building, i just need to grab autotools and start building
Piki	kb9vqf: is a certain version of automake required?
kb9vqf	no
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Piki	the qt tarball i need is qt-x11-free-3.3.8b.tar.xx ?
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MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: hey, future comment about the channel
MutantTurkey	when you have an outage, update the topic so people know :)
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MutantTurkey	samelian: hey I need some help building kdebase
MutantTurkey	I am having trouble making it find the dbus tqt path i think
MutantTurkey	I tried adding it to my CMAKE_INCLUDE_PATH but it still doesn't see it.
samelian	what kind of trouble?
MutantTurkey	it gives me the dbus-tqt cannot be  found on your system
MutantTurkey	but i exported it with export CMAKE_INCLUDE_PATH=/opt/qt/include/tqt:/opt/trinity/include/dbus-1.0:/opt/trinity/include/dbus-1.0/dbus:/opt/trinity/include:/opt/trinity/include/libkrandr
samelian	check error log
MutantTurkey	http://ix.io/1Nk
MutantTurkey	It doesn't seem to include it
samelian	where is located your connection.h?
MutantTurkey	/opt/trinity/include
samelian	in /opt/trinity/include/dbus/connection.h ?
MutantTurkey	/opt/trinity/include/dbus-1.0/dbus/
samelian	where is dbus-tqt.pc?
MutantTurkey	in uh
MutantTurkey	/opt/trinity/lib/pkgconfig
samelian	and cmake knows that .pc file is located in /opt/trinity/lib/pkgconfig?
MutantTurkey	export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=:/opt/trinity/lib/pkgconfig:/opt/qt/lib/pkgconfig:
samelian	show me output of pkg-config --cflags dbus-tqt
MutantTurkey	-I/opt/trinity/include
samelian	but pkg-config --cflags dbus-1-tqt ?
MutantTurkey	nope
samelian	hmm, seems that kdebase cmake is not adapted for dbus-1-tqt
MutantTurkey	ah
samelian	try to replace pkg_search_module( DBUS dbus-1 )
samelian	with pkg_search_module( DBUS dbus-tqt )
MutantTurkey	where is that?
samelian	ConfigureChecks.cmake
MutantTurkey	oh in CMrighright
MutantTurkey	still errors out
MutantTurkey	maybe dbus-tqt-1
samelian	I don't think so, dbus/connection.h is provided by dbus-tqt
MutantTurkey	hrm
samelian	MutantTurkey: you have pkg_search_module( DBUS dbus-tqt ), of smth else?
MutantTurkey	i have dbus-tqt
samelian	I see, but the variable is DBUS, or smth else?
MutantTurkey	i have that
samelian	paste entire ConfigureChecks
MutantTurkey	ok
MutantTurkey	http://ix.io/1N1
MutantTurkey	http://ix.io/1Nl
MutantTurkey	i apologize
MutantTurkey	they look the same xD
samelian	the error is the same?
MutantTurkey	let me retry
samelian	show me output of cmake as well
MutantTurkey	http://ix.io/1Nm
samelian	and error log/
MutantTurkey	OK
MutantTurkey	http://ix.io/1Nn
samelian	hmm
samelian	are you sure you have /opt/trinity/include/dbus?
MutantTurkey	let me verify
MutantTurkey	no not there
MutantTurkey	there is
samelian	but?
MutantTurkey	/opt/trinity/include/dbus-1.0/
samelian	should be in /opt/trinity/include/dbus
MutantTurkey	okay i wonder why it is in dbus-1.0
MutantTurkey	it should be in dbus-1.0
MutantTurkey	that is where it installs default
MutantTurkey	do you want me to move it?
MutantTurkey	either way, i included /opt/trinity/include/dbus-1.0/
samelian	dbus should be installed where .pc file indicate
samelian	otherwise can't be found
MutantTurkey	samelian: I'll look at the pc file
MutantTurkey	isn't the pc file generated?
samelian	it is
kb9vqf	Good idea MutantTurkey :)
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: yeah.
MutantTurkey	samelian: hrm no luck then
MutantTurkey	can i regenerate it or something/
samelian	.pc file is based on INCLUDE_INSTALL_DIR
MutantTurkey	okay
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: do  you know why it would be in "dbus-1.0" instead of dbus?
MutantTurkey	samelian: okay
MutantTurkey	for tqt
kb9vqf	I don't know; I haven't looked at that code in quite a while :-/
samelian	how you installed dbus-tqt?
MutantTurkey	samelian: what do you mean?
samelian	is installed by make install or somehow manually?
MutantTurkey	with my pkgbuild
MutantTurkey	its packaged
samelian	aha
MutantTurkey	my INCLUDE_INSTALL_DIR is /opt/trinity
samelian	maybe your package did not respect CMAKE_PREFIX
MutantTurkey	?
samelian	ah, I see a problem
samelian	install( FILES
samelian	dbus-qt.h message.h connection.h server.h
samelian	DESTINATION ${INCLUDE_INSTALL_DIR}/dbus-1.0/dbus )
samelian	i'm not sure why is that
samelian	kb9vqf: you did not changed DESTINATION?
samelian	I don't remember if I changed it
kb9vqf	I don't remember either
samelian	hehe
kb9vqf	all I know is it works here (TM)
kb9vqf	:)
samelian	ok, I will check it today later
kb9vqf	thanks
samelian	right now my mind is too fuzzy, there is 7:00 AM at this moment :)
kb9vqf	I'm currently in the middle of a rebuild that was interrupted due to Monday's derecho
samelian	I can't sleep
MutantTurkey	I am up :D
MutantTurkey	so I am at this point, just waiting for that file change?
MutantTurkey	i'll just do it myself
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: wait should it be ${INCLUDE_INSTALL_DIR}/dbus/?
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: can anyone clone the git?
MutantTurkey	anyway actually i am going to sleep. I'll sort this out later.
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MutantTurkey	samelian: so any idea about this problem i am having?
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: how do i clone our git? :\
MutantTurkey	without a user
MutantTurkey	just no user prefixing the url/
MutantTurkey	?
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: remove your username from it
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MutantTurkey	Xu_R: okay yeah i am just going t odo that
MutantTurkey	gotta convert all the package building systems to git D:
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MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: hey important
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: on the archlinux developers mailing list
MutantTurkey	they are discussing who isgoing to maintain qt3 and kdelibs3
MutantTurkey	i privately emailed the guy earier about qt3
MutantTurkey	but kdelibs3 is a different story
MutantTurkey	http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-dev-public/2011-July/020985.html
MutantTurkey	are we compat with the old kde3libs? i am not suree how this works
MutantTurkey	but, this could be our foot in the door to getting supported officially by a distro
MutantTurkey	Xu_R|ZNC: ^ also see this and tell me what you tink
kb9vqf	We are NOT compatible with the old kdelibs in terms of the ABI
kb9vqf	the API will allow the older KDE3 apps to be compiled against the Trinity kdelibs in theory, but I've never tried it
kb9vqf	the fact that we use TQt instead of Qt3 may throw a monkey wrench into that idea
MutantTurkey	yeah.
ar	kb9vqf: TQt is the wrapper around qt4?
MutantTurkey	but qt3 is api compat right?
MutantTurkey	ar: yes and qt3
MutantTurkey	against all qt versions
kb9vqf	yes, qt3 is compatible
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: because we could be qt3 upstream
kb9vqf	that is OK with me
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: so in theory we could compile to the, but not neccesarily?
kb9vqf	The goal is to pull all of the disparate Qt3 patches to create a central, up-to-date Qt3 repository that can then be extended as neccessary
MutantTurkey	yes
kb9vqf	"compile to the"?
MutantTurkey	if they recompile (thats probably okay) will it work?
MutantTurkey	recompile gaainst new kde3libs
kb9vqf	possibly
kb9vqf	I can't guarantee it
kb9vqf	the reason is that some member names changed in TQt3
kb9vqf	In all likelihood the original Qt3 member names will "bleed through" and the code will compile, but I am not comfortable stating that it *will* work at this point
MutantTurkey	ok
MutantTurkey	i am recommending they don't use our kdelibs3
MutantTurkey	did you see that link
MutantTurkey	?
kb9vqf	looking at it now
kb9vqf	can they try it?
MutantTurkey	i emailed it
MutantTurkey	to you
kb9vqf	ok
MutantTurkey	my response
MutantTurkey	look at it and see if it's okay
kb9vqf	I'm just not sure what to do here :)
kb9vqf	we're not stable yet
kb9vqf	(will be fall before 3.5.13 is released)
kb9vqf	Just a couple of nits
kb9vqf	1.) TQt is not Tqt ;-)
kb9vqf	2.) kde3 is not Trinity
MutantTurkey	i know.
MutantTurkey	thats what i mean
kb9vqf	3.) I would put in a recommendation that they look into switching to the Trinity-provided kdelibs/kdebase/kde* modules
kb9vqf	just for the simple fact that they are having build problems now with the old stock KDE3 sources
kb9vqf	Just a thought
MutantTurkey	so i should recommend that when we release stable, they should just switch?
kb9vqf	it won't be as easy as "just switch", primarily due to CMake being used to build arts/kdelibs/kdebase, but yes
kb9vqf	it shouldn't be too bad
kb9vqf	I changed the Ubuntu build scripts in about a day
kb9vqf	(to handle CMake and the tqtinterface deps that is)
MutantTurkey	but if i have package builds they can just steam them
MutantTurkey	because i would pu the mup for them to steal :0
kb9vqf	ah, ok :)
kb9vqf	yes, in that case switching would be easy
MutantTurkey	read that
MutantTurkey	sent another
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: i think that should be the one i send off, unless there is any other problems?
kb9vqf	Looks good
kb9vqf	I only have one suggestion
MutantTurkey	yes?
kb9vqf	The Qt3 repository is actually ready to use, combining all the patches I am aware of
MutantTurkey	okay so they should use it?
MutantTurkey	what is the link?
kb9vqf	I would say yes
kb9vqf	http://git.trinitydesktop.org/viewgit/index.php?a=tree&p=Trinity%20Desktop%20Environment&hb=HEAD&f=main/dependencies/qt3
kb9vqf	that's the Webgit
kb9vqf	an actual checkout command would be:
kb9vqf	git clone http://scm.trinitydesktop.org/scm/git/tde/main/dependencies/qt3
kb9vqf	or there's a handy .tar.gz link on the bottom of the webgit page ;-)
kb9vqf	As more patches are applied they will be listed in the changes-3.3.8d file
MutantTurkey	ok
kb9vqf	If there are any compilation issues they should just poke me here or send an Email to the trinity-devel list
kb9vqf	IIRC a compilation test was already run successfully on an non-Ubuntu system by someone on the mailing list
kb9vqf	so I'm not expecting any problems
MutantTurkey	http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2011-July/020969.html sent
MutantTurkey	gottta go drop off paper work at HR
kb9vqf	ok, thanks
MutantTurkey	i'll stop by later.
kb9vqf	sure
kb9vqf	hopefully we start getting some downstream distro support now... :)
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Borg^Queen	hello humans, AIs and others
MutantTurkey	blech
Borg^Queen	?
MutantTurkey	running around hot downtown filling out paperwork
MutantTurkey	very gross
Borg^Queen	ugh really, how hot is it?
Borg^Queen	its 35c here
MutantTurkey	uh i would say about 35c
MutantTurkey	which by itself is bearable
MutantTurkey	but the humidity
MutantTurkey	is terrible.
Borg^Queen	the tell is, if you believe the weather monkeys, its going to get up about 38c here today
Borg^Queen	I doubt it, since its already cooling off
Borg^Queen	I hate humidity, makes for a bad hair day, and mine is very long
Borg^Queen	I end up looking like a rabid brillo pad
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Borg^Queen	hi kb9vqf
kb9vqf	Hello :)
Borg^Queen	Got some feed back from my testers yesterday
Borg^Queen	"Great job!
Borg^Queen	"
kb9vqf	:D
Borg^Queen	That was pretty much it, they went back to using it
kb9vqf	VERY glad to hear that!
Borg^Queen	T he only complaints where about in ubuntu in general
Borg^Queen	Its a well earned feed back
kb9vqf	Yes, Ubuntu is fast becoming a steaming pile of something nasty :-P
Borg^Queen	ooh lol
kb9vqf	Too unstable, too much API breakage for no reason
kb9vqf	Case in point: I do video editing in my spare time
kb9vqf	and use IEEE1394
kb9vqf	Guess what Natty did?
Borg^Queen	Its called "Replicate Fade" a genetics term, meaning errors resulting from making copies of copies
kb9vqf	They moved the /dev/raw1394 device to /dev/fw0....for no reason whatsoever!
Borg^Queen	Umm I use fW too
Borg^Queen	arrrgh
Borg^Queen	seriously?
kb9vqf	Let's just say it breaks Kino and other apps
kb9vqf	and yes :-P
kb9vqf	I am serious
Borg^Queen	Well I do my video editing, which is a lot, on Ark linux, which sadly doesn't have TDE yet. But the founding devel is very interested. Come to #arklinux to meet him if you have the time and inclination.
kb9vqf	A symbolic link will fix the issue (ln -s /dev/fw0 /dev/raw1394), but you have to do that on every boot
kb9vqf	Debian is starting to look more and more attractive
kb9vqf	I have Debian boxes that give me no trouble whatsoever
Borg^Queen	I was on debian but I wanted a pure kde distro, arklinux was and still is the best distro I've used. I have it so tweaked I can do 80% of my work from konq
Borg^Queen	I have video, audio, graphics,  file management and more servicemenus
kb9vqf	nice
Borg^Queen	I've been experimenting with dvd, bluray ripping and converting to mkv
Borg^Queen	the cli tools are SO easy
kb9vqf	You're lucky you aren't in the USA
* kb9vqf wishes he could do that
Borg^Queen	I am
kb9vqf	BTW can you check the rsync mirror of Trinity for me?
Borg^Queen	how
kb9vqf	see if you can get a directory list from rsync.trinitydesktop.org
kb9vqf	e.g. with rsync rsync://rsync.trinitydesktop.org
* kb9vqf is fixing some routing issues
Borg^Queen	ok hang on, don't use rsync very often
Borg^Queen	rsync: getaddrinfo: rsync.trinitydesktop.org 873: Name or service not known
Borg^Queen	rsync error: error in socket IO (code 10) at clientserver.c(122) [receiver=3.0.2]
Borg^Queen	kb9vqf: you can add all kinds of multimedia services because you are not a commercial entity
* kb9vqf was afraid of that
kb9vqf	hang on
* kb9vqf mutters something about keeping illegal topics off this channel
kb9vqf	:)
Borg^Queen	aye
kb9vqf	OK, please try the rsync again...
Borg^Queen	one moment
Borg^Queen	same error
Borg^Queen	perhaps I'm getting the command wrong
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	no
kb9vqf	I was playing with the routing and messed it up
Borg^Queen	give me an exact command
Borg^Queen	I did that last night took down my entire network until 10 am this morning
kb9vqf	Borg^Queen: OK, try one more time
kb9vqf	rsync rsync://rsync.trinitydesktop.org
Borg^Queen	same error
kb9vqf	??
kb9vqf	That should have worked
kb9vqf	what is the error?
Borg^Queen	the way I do it is I open a terminal into the dir where I have the iso, is that wrong?
Borg^Queen	rsync: getaddrinfo: rsync.trinitydesktop.org 873: Name or service not known
Borg^Queen	rsync error: error in socket IO (code 10) at clientserver.c(122) [receiver=3.0.2]
kb9vqf	Sounds like a DNS malfunction
kb9vqf	What does ping rsync.trinitydesktop.org show?
Borg^Queen	one moment
Borg^Queen	ping: unknown host rsync.trinitydesktop.org
Borg^Queen	let me test me ping functions
Borg^Queen	its working
kb9vqf	hmmm
kb9vqf	I will have to think for a few minutes
Borg^Queen	sorry
kb9vqf	Borg^Queen: OK, try again please...
Borg^Queen	ok
Borg^Queen	same both rsync and ping
kb9vqf	rsync still failing?
Borg^Queen	is trinity site down?
Borg^Queen	yes on rsync and ping as well
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Borg^Queen	There goes the neihbourhood
kb9vqf	Ah, there we go I think
Borg^Queen	There goes the neighborhood even
Borg^Queen	check?
kb9vqf	yes
kb9vqf	I confused it with two gateways :-P
kb9vqf	(accidentally)
Borg^Queen	not working
Borg^Queen	maybe I'm doing something wrong?
kb9vqf	worked on a remote system I have access to
kb9vqf	hmmm
kb9vqf	post the command?
Borg^Queen	ping rsync.trinitydesktop.org &  ping rsync.trinitydesktop.org are the commands I'm using
kb9vqf	Oh, ping may not work
kb9vqf	I was just making sure it resolved the DNS entry
kb9vqf	in fact IIRC ping is blocked
kb9vqf	what about rsync?
Xu_R	shush Borg^Queen. :P
Borg^Queen	same error as before
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Can you try?
Xu_R	kb9vqf: http://forum.mandriva.com/en/viewtopic.php?f=181&t=128274&p=848036#p848036 have you seen this?
kb9vqf	rsync rsync://rsync.trinitydesktop.org
Borg^Queen	same
Xu_R	nope
Xu_R	doesn't work here
kb9vqf	failing?
kb9vqf	hmmm
kb9vqf	oh, duh
kb9vqf	I gave the wrong URL
kb9vqf	sorry
* kb9vqf needs more coffee
Borg^Queen	>:
Xu_R	xD
Borg^Queen	lol
Borg^Queen	ok brb
kb9vqf	rsync rsync://rsync.pearsoncomputing.net
MutantTurkey	what's up with rsync?
kb9vqf	The mirroring system broke after the IP change
Borg^Queen	ok working
Xu_R	there we go
MutantTurkey	oh D:
Xu_R	that works xD
Borg^Queen	brb
kb9vqf	So the mirrors should sync again...that's good
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Can you try another test for me?
Xu_R	sure
kb9vqf	Try to actually *pull* some files from that rsync server
kb9vqf	I need to make sure the bandwidth settings are OK
kb9vqf	Let me know when you have initiated the download so I can peer at the charts
Xu_R	ok
kb9vqf	it's active?
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: sent that email off, still no word back yet no idea why.
kb9vqf	give them time :)
MutantTurkey	indeed
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Not seeing your download traffic yet
Xu_R	yea, hold on
Xu_R	router's been screwing me up all weekend
kb9vqf	oh, ok
kb9vqf	I just need a short burst for a minute or so
Borg^Queen	ok back
Xu_R	got that short burst?
kb9vqf	no
kb9vqf	I was waiting for a poke
kb9vqf	sorry
kb9vqf	try again?
Xu_R	get anything?
Xu_R	because my server is seeing yours and pulling now
kb9vqf	yes, I see your traffic
kb9vqf	It's in the wrong spot on my end
kb9vqf	hang on while I reconfigure something
Xu_R	ok
Xu_R	stopping and waiting
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Try again please
Xu_R	starting
kb9vqf	OK, much better
kb9vqf	everything looks OK now
Xu_R	ok
kb9vqf	thanks
Xu_R	terminating
kb9vqf	BTW please don't use that address unless you have a mirror to add to the system
Xu_R	kb9vqf: ok. i'm not using it anyway.
kb9vqf	When the primary mirrors start pulling that link will swamp very quickly :)
Xu_R	xD I figured
Xu_R	kb9vqf: so did you see this? http://forum.mandriva.com/en/viewtopic.php?f=181&t=128274&p=848036#p848036
Borg^Queen	I leave the mirrors to the pros
kb9vqf	Xu_R: yes I did
Borg^Queen	Xu_R: I read it, what about it?
kb9vqf	so it looks like there are spec files "out there in the Ether"?
kb9vqf	want to pull them and try building Trinity with them? (hint hint)
Xu_R	kb9vqf: yea... I want to see what he did
Xu_R	except I need to see if that fix can be used to build the latest SVN too.
kb9vqf	If they're good clone them to our GIT repo
Xu_R	Borg^Queen: that is supposed to allow the old autotools system to build Trinity
Xu_R	with newer autoconf versions
Borg^Queen	I thought we were going to all cmake
Borg^Queen	I hate autotools
Xu_R	Borg^Queen: we're not stalled on it anymore, so if you can still use it, it's an advantage to have a fallback
Borg^Queen	true, good point
Xu_R	I haven't heard from anyone on the July Meeting except kb9vqf... *glare*
kb9vqf	Xu_R: I patched Automake as best as I could some time ago
kb9vqf	i.e. most things build
kb9vqf	arts is NOT one of them
kb9vqf	but since we have CMake for Arts I don't really care
Borg^Queen	does arts do anything anymore?
kb9vqf	yes
kb9vqf	it's still needed
kb9vqf	it does seem quite stable IMHO
kb9vqf	I have had no problems with it since 3.5.11
Xu_R	ok
Borg^Queen	I never had any problems with it, but everyone says its been replaced
Borg^Queen	?
kb9vqf	with what?
kb9vqf	pulseaudio?
kb9vqf	that *does* give me problems on a near-daily asis
kb9vqf	*basis
kb9vqf	AFAIK there is no viable replacement for arts
Borg^Queen	I never got it to work, and phonon keeps crashing
kb9vqf	I think the "arts is dead" stuff is wishful thinking
Borg^Queen	A lot of kde4 is wishful thinking, honestly
kb9vqf	as in it was replaced under KDE4 with an unstable chunk of new software
kb9vqf	:)
Borg^Queen	case in point
Xu_R	lol
Borg^Queen	what lol its true
Xu_R	I know
MutantTurkey	yes! finally got all my paperwork done with the HR department :)
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: :D
MutantTurkey	:D :D
MutantTurkey	but now i actually have to work D:
Borg^Queen	lol
Xu_R	hey, kb9vqf: could you give Borg^Queen git access? I want her to help me with packaging for RPM-based distros
kb9vqf	sure :)
Borg^Queen	I stink at that
kb9vqf	Can I have a real name and an Email address?
Xu_R	Borg^Queen: even if it's testing...? lol
Borg^Queen	Kate Draven / borgqueen4@gmail.com
MutantTurkey	SSN and phone number and bank #'s to
MutantTurkey	:p
kb9vqf	OK
kb9vqf	No
Xu_R	LOL
Borg^Queen	Oh I can test, I can break and complain about anything
Borg^Queen	what
Xu_R	as you are notorious for doing that ;P
Borg^Queen	MutantTurkey: >:
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: is it possible that we could have some sort of developers area for the site? as a portal
kb9vqf	Remember we are a desktop project, meaning that we should at least know who is committing what for security reasons
Borg^Queen	true
Xu_R	kb9vqf: and for good reasons too.
MutantTurkey	i mean just like a page that links to all the other ones
Borg^Queen	kb9vqf: I'
MutantTurkey	because we have cgit, etherpad, etc
Borg^Queen	I'm glad you said that
Xu_R	speaking of Etherpad, is the July meeting tomorrow?
kb9vqf	time out, time out :)
kb9vqf	too much text
Xu_R	XD
Xu_R	brb, my contacts are getting blurry... D:
Borg^Queen	gross
kb9vqf	yes, a portal would be nice
MutantTurkey	and a maybe "phonebook" so to speak
kb9vqf	I don't have time to iron out what should be on it
kb9vqf	want to thrown up an Etherpad with what you guys want to seee?
MutantTurkey	more like a contact page for us devels so other people have emails and such
kb9vqf	*see?
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: i can do it
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	then just Email it to me or something
kb9vqf	re: the meeting
kb9vqf	tomorrow may not be the best time
kb9vqf	how about a week from tomorrow?
Xu_R	back
Xu_R	yes, gross D:
Xu_R	kb9vqf: so postpone it a week? ok
kb9vqf	yes, please
MutantTurkey	http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/7
kb9vqf	OK, Email with account info sent
kb9vqf	Borg^Queen: ^^^
Borg^Queen	ah ok thank you
kb9vqf	Let me know when you have changed your password and I will grant commit access
kb9vqf	Do you want access to just the packaging repo or the source code as well?
Borg^Queen	very good, a little busy at the moment, can it wait a bit?
kb9vqf	sure
kb9vqf	just poke me or Email me when done
Borg^Queen	whatever Xu_R needs, I'm going to test whatever he packages
Xu_R	:D
Borg^Queen	and there's the smirk
Xu_R	teehee
Borg^Queen	He sees his opportunity to torture me
Xu_R	no, borgy, I will not install malware -_-
Borg^Queen	lol
Borg^Queen	I was taking a sip of water when the popped up
Borg^Queen	I almost did a spit take into the fan
Xu_R	*when the popped up?
Borg^Queen	it rather
Borg^Queen	[15:40] <Xu_R> no, borgy, I will not install malware -_-
Xu_R	oh xD
Borg^Queen	square kb and I uses ergos
Borg^Queen	brb
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Borg^Queen	hi
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Borg^Queen	wb
MutantTurkey	thanks ran into a bit of comptuer trouble
Xu_R	wb
Xu_R	ah, i'm late.
Borg^Queen	pregnant?
Xu_R	-_- no.
MutantTurkey	O.o
Borg^Queen	MutantTurkey: tis ok, you can relax
MutantTurkey	haha
MutantTurkey	I really need to get this dumb build problem fixedu p
MutantTurkey	I am itching to work on real problems :P
Borg^Queen	what's wrong?
MutantTurkey	i have to update some scripts now that we are using git, annd fix an error with my kdebase script.
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kb9vqf	Anyone here know this guy?
kb9vqf	Pawel <0x4r0x@gmail.com> requested an account for trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org
Xu_R	kb9vqf: no...
kb9vqf	If not I'll probably ignore his request
kb9vqf	could be a spam bot
Xu_R	ignore for now - and if anyone mentions on the list, then we'll know
kb9vqf	yep
kb9vqf	just thought I'd check here
Xu_R	nice to know that the request feature works :D
kb9vqf	:)
kb9vqf	Yes...since the (ill-timed) upgrades most things appear to be working at 100%
Xu_R	a very good thing indeed
Borg^Queen	?
kb9vqf	On July 11th or so I did some upgrades  and maintinance of the Trinity web services
Borg^Queen	Xu_R: f15 ... OMG lol
Xu_R	Borg^Queen: you can now request for an account on etherpad using a built-in form instead of us having to manually do it.
kb9vqf	While this fixed a lot of problems I did manage to knock the Etherpad offline
Borg^Queen	it seems gnome is the default ui, should I try kde4
kb9vqf	and then the derecho came through a few days later
kb9vqf	so the timing ended up being very bad in hindsight
Borg^Queen	oh blimey, I think its dead
kb9vqf	?
Xu_R	...
* Xu_R wonders if Borg^Queen paid attention...?
Borg^Queen	my fedora 15 install
* Xu_R gets a no as an answer.
Borg^Queen	about etherpad, yes sorry,
kb9vqf	np
kb9vqf	we have several topics going on here apparently
* kb9vqf gets off to let the channel topic take precedence :)
Borg^Queen	I'm new to all this so I'll have to learn on the fly regarding things like etherpad
Xu_R	brb, dinner.
Borg^Queen	k
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Xu_R	back
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Borg^Queen	ok time for me to go, gn or day to all
MadRush	anybody useing trinity on debian squeeze? I'm getting a dependency problem trying to install
Borg^Queen	what dep?
eldowan	MadRush: I'm using trinity on squeeze
Borg^Queen	well then, I'm off
Borg^Queen	thank you eldowan
eldowan	Borg^Queen: not sure what help i can be, i'm not at that machine.
eldowan	but yw, all the same
Borg^Queen	Well you'd know more than me, I haven't used Debian since Sarge
Borg^Queen	must go, sorry to run off MadRush, I have to make my own mad rush
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eldowan	MadRush: I'll be leaving here shortly, but any info you can provide?
eldowan	I had to update some packages on my squeeze box (heh) before the install'd go through. though I dont' remember what
MadRush	lol borg
Xu_R	don't worry, Borg^Queen is always like that.
Xu_R	ping kb9vqf
MadRush	its just funny I use this nick but I forget that its actually words that can be used hah
MadRush	whats the apt command to go ahead and do a safe update?
Xu_R	apt-get upgrade
MadRush	thanks
MadRush	its been a while since I did that ... been using the update manager for quite a while now.
MadRush	im tempted to make a squeeze vm real quick and see if it works on there
eldowan	I think there's a switch that you cna use that won't do an update, but show you what would be installed.
eldowan	aptitude -s will simulate, but not perform actions.
MadRush	good to know.  ive got to run but I'll be back later if I haven't made any headway
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Xu_R	brb, upgrading virtualbox (which reset my damn connection)
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MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: werid still no answer :[
MutantTurkey	also, I can't clone the git...
MutantTurkey	did you run "update-server-info" on the server?
MutantTurkey	fatal: http://cmorrison@trinitydesktop.org/scm/git/tde-packaging/info/refs not found: did you run git update-server-info on the server?
* Xu_R hopes that kb9vqf is not using java's implementation of git that SCM-Manager is supposed to use...
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: then again, I didn't have that problem...
Xu_R	oh, I know
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: check your url
MutantTurkey	whats wron with that?
Xu_R	it's scm.trinitydesktop.org/scm/git/tde-packaging
Xu_R	you're missing the subdomain
MutantTurkey	oh
MutantTurkey	okay :)
MutantTurkey	thanks!
Xu_R	np
MutantTurkey	this info should really be somewhere..
Xu_R	it is...
MutantTurkey	?
Xu_R	scm.trinitydesktop.org
Xu_R	if you login
MutantTurkey	what is git.trinitdesktop.org?
Xu_R	it also tells you your git clone command
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: the cgit interface AFAIK
MutantTurkey	oh here is a git tip if you dont want a giant wait to  clone huge repos
MutantTurkey	git clone URL --depth=1
MutantTurkey	only checks out most recent revision
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Xu_R	MutantTurkey: My internet is fast (but comcast loves throttling me), and I've really had not many problems with many big repos. but thanks for the tip!
MutantTurkey	but like when you clone the kernel...
MutantTurkey	if you ever do
MutantTurkey	it's annoyingly ridiculous :P
Xu_R	oh, now I want to. XD
MutantTurkey	Xu_R: yo so at this point all patches have been incorporated into qt3?
Xu_R	pretty much. there's nothing really much more.
MutantTurkey	have archlinux patches been looked at?
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MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: hey I have all these qt3 patches in tde-packaging/arch/trinity-qt3/ and i don't know if they are still relevant
MutantTurkey	(i am undergoing the conversion to git now)
kb9vqf	can you see if they are in the qt3 master branch?
MutantTurkey	how would i do that?
MutantTurkey	is there a way to search?
kb9vqf	you would have to load each patch and see if the changes are already in the source files
kb9vqf	alternatively, check out the source and try to patch it
kb9vqf	patch will complain if the patches are already in place
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: just go with option 2, and use quilt. it'll make your life so much easier.
MutantTurkey	ok :)
MutantTurkey	I am terrible at remembering passwords D:
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: sorry to be a pain in the arse, could you reset me git password?
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: reset
MutantTurkey	thanks
kb9vqf	np
MutantTurkey	does scm allow us to do oher things? or is it just a git manager?
kb9vqf	it's a scm manager
MutantTurkey	scm?
kb9vqf	so I could also provide subversion or mercurial repositories
MutantTurkey	okay
kb9vqf	source control manager
MutantTurkey	so many acronyms
kb9vqf	iirc
MutantTurkey	I thought it was vcs
kb9vqf	I know :)
kb9vqf	probably vcs is more generic
Xu_R	lol
Xu_R	scm, vcs
Xu_R	both work in the end :P
MutantTurkey	also what are we on
MutantTurkey	3.3.8c?
Xu_R	yup
MutantTurkey	ok
MutantTurkey	oh my gosh this pkgbuild is way to complicated...
kb9vqf	3.3.8d technically
kb9vqf	3.3.8d being HEAD
kb9vqf	3.3.8c was already released
kb9vqf	3.3.8d may end up being the fully patched version of 3.3.8c
MutantTurkey	head?
kb9vqf	latest bleeding-edge version in the VCS
MutantTurkey	wait so I should pull from the main/ though right?
kb9vqf	yes
MutantTurkey	or is that HEAD?
kb9vqf	yes
MutantTurkey	whats in experimental/ ?
kb9vqf	let me put it this way: for an old stable project like Qt3 you want to pull the latest (HEAD) development sources from GIT
kb9vqf	experimental contains tqt4
MutantTurkey	okay :)
kb9vqf	and believe me it is HIGHLY experimental :)
kb9vqf	will probably eat your cat and make trees fall on your car
Xu_R	D: kitty hater!
MutantTurkey	I'll stay away.
kb9vqf	hehe
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: also a maybe ridiculous thought
MutantTurkey	we want to use webkit, do we want to write a tqt interface for webkit?
MutantTurkey	there already is a qt4 port for it, I don't know how much effort would be required
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: hrm another weird thing, I can do this: git clone http://scm.trinitydesktop.org/scm/git/tde
MutantTurkey	but not git clone http://scm.trinitydesktop.org/scm/git/tde/main/dependencies/qt3/
kb9vqf	no?
kb9vqf	what's the error?
MutantTurkey	fatal: remote error: Git repository not found
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: you could never do that with git last I checked.
* kb9vqf is a GIT newbie
MutantTurkey	Xu_R: yes you can I think...
MutantTurkey	I am almost sure
Xu_R	otherwise I would have done it with gitorious...
MutantTurkey	maybe not
kb9vqf	From what I understand it's not possible
* Xu_R tests his gitorious for that
MutantTurkey	you can do it
kb9vqf	I'm basing that on the fact that, unlike SVN, there is no .git directory in each subdirectory of a repository
MutantTurkey	sparse checkouts
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: no, it didn't work here...
Xu_R	oh, sparse checkouts, eww...
kb9vqf	??
Xu_R	there's this : http://stackoverflow.com/questions/600079/is-there-any-way-to-clone-a-git-repositorys-sub-directory-only
MutantTurkey	what do you mean eww?
MutantTurkey	it's identical to svn's way
MutantTurkey	http://vmiklos.hu/blog/sparse-checkout-example-in-git-1-7
MutantTurkey	youjust have to set it up i think
Xu_R	exactly why I said eww.
Xu_R	you can't do that on an initial clone
MutantTurkey	i know
MutantTurkey	so what do we do? just force them to checkout everything?
kb9vqf	well, not a problem with my server then
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: no :)
kb9vqf	GIT does have limitations
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: yea. pretty much. unless you want me to do branches?
Xu_R	one branch per distro?
kb9vqf	ick
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: so does svn :P
MutantTurkey	anyway i think git has good advantages over svn
Xu_R	(that actually sounds kinda good, doing branches)
MutantTurkey	though this is one that seems pretty hefty annoying
kb9vqf	I assume there would still be a way to check out everything?
kb9vqf	I don't want to lose that
Xu_R	kb9vqf: git clone takes out everything.
kb9vqf	The more connections you have being established in an automated script, the higher the liklihood of failure
MutantTurkey	right
kb9vqf	well, as long as we retain the ability to have a large, editable "master" checkout of everything I don't care what is done about branches/sparse checkouts/etc.
* Xu_R actually wants to work on a seperate branch for now with these mandriva SRPMS
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: hmmm got an email back from a developer
kb9vqf	and?
kb9vqf	not good?
MutantTurkey	it was like off topic...
kb9vqf	?
MutantTurkey	http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2011-July/020977.html
MutantTurkey	read
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: also, are you being trottled at liek 90kbs?
kb9vqf	it sounds like they are not interested
kb9vqf	I shouldn't be
kb9vqf	which service is affected?
MutantTurkey	just git cloning is really slow
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: thats only one developer, out of like 30...
MutantTurkey	mostly what i was proposing was qt3
MutantTurkey	kdelibs3 i even said wasn't important until we went stable
kb9vqf	90kbits or 90kbytes?
MutantTurkey	bytes
kb9vqf	well that actually might be the max uplink
MutantTurkey	oh, in that case sorry for stealing all your bandwidth :P
kb9vqf	It's OK
kb9vqf	you can't
kb9vqf	:)
kb9vqf	90k isn't that bad in reality
kb9vqf	if we find a bottlenect we'll start redirecting initial checkouts to another server
kb9vqf	*bottleneck
kb9vqf	I just don't know enough about GIT to do that yet :-P
MutantTurkey	right
MutantTurkey	i keep forgetting if i have mentioned this
MutantTurkey	i started to mirror kde.org and am going to start mirroring our git
kb9vqf	yes you did
kb9vqf	when you have the git mirror please let me know
MutantTurkey	okay I will
MutantTurkey	now how do I not just mirror it, but allow other people to check out from me
kb9vqf	I have no idea :-P
MutantTurkey	I mean right now I am just cloning it into a directory on a cron job
kb9vqf	That might work
kb9vqf	As long as the entries for commit still point to *.trinitydesktop.org it should be OK
MutantTurkey	yeah I don't know D:
kb9vqf	Like I said my GIT knowledge is somewhat sparse still, so I'm playing it safe
kb9vqf	and having people check out straight from the main repo
MutantTurkey	is good
MutantTurkey	I am just doing it mostly for backups now
kb9vqf	sure
Xu_R	getting tired now - night all
kb9vqf	gn
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: Did your git checkout complete yet?
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: yes but the thing is I need to do it frequently
MutantTurkey	which is annoying
MutantTurkey	for some reason I cannot do --depth 1
* kb9vqf was just curious
MutantTurkey	to speed it up considerably.
MutantTurkey	do you know why that is?
kb9vqf	no, sorry
MutantTurkey	hrm
MutantTurkey	now i am erroring upon building qt34
MutantTurkey	qt3'
kb9vqf	error?
MutantTurkey	uh
MutantTurkey	/home/calvin/trinity-tree/tde-packaging/arch/master/trinity-qt3/src/tde/main/dependencies/qt3/src/tools/qdir.cpp:45:28: fatal error: private/qdir_p.h: No such file or directory
kb9vqf	hmm
kb9vqf	that is supposed to be a symlink
kb9vqf	hang on while I look at it
MutantTurkey	ok
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: fixed
MutantTurkey	re pull?
kb9vqf	yes
MutantTurkey	ok building works now ;)
MutantTurkey	could be easier than i thought
MutantTurkey	gotta figure out how to keep it in opt
MutantTurkey	just got to figure out how to package it right...
MutantTurkey	lied.
MutantTurkey	there are more errors
MutantTurkey	actually... no idea whats up
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MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: I dunno. Ill work on it tomorrow
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Xu_R	kb9vqf: did you see the patches from Nix?
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MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: seems that at least one of those patches wasn't in the main repo
Xu_R	oh, patchwork is down...
MutantTurkey	it doesn't matter
MutantTurkey	I  just attached it
MutantTurkey	so we can still use it
Xu_R	I know. I was just saying in general. Did you also see the patches from Nix?
MutantTurkey	Xu_R: I told myself i would get up at like 8... didnt wake up till now haha
MutantTurkey	yes briefly while laying in bed
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: lol
MutantTurkey	they were tqt patches
MutantTurkey	hopefully fixing my problem
Xu_R	nice to see some patches floating into the mailing list
MutantTurkey	indeed.
MutantTurkey	i really want to be more of a hel
MutantTurkey	but until i get this system running triniy i am out of luck
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: okay, errors building qt3 now. ptrdiff_t does not name a type
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* kb9vqf forgot about patchwork
kb9vqf	drat
tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 486 filed by jsullivan@opensourcedevel.com.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=486 major, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, KOrgac reading Zimbra calendars via caldav crash constantly for almost all users
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Borg^Queen	hi
eldowan	y0
Borg^Queen	y0
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: Patchwork is back online: http://patchwork.trinitydesktop.org/project/trinity/list/
Borg^Queen	bbs
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kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: Patchwork did not catch your patch--did you attach it in plain text as requested earlier?
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Patchwork registration should be functionali
kb9vqf	*functional now
Xu_R	kb9vqf: darn it, my first two attempts are still there - but my account is inactive...
kb9vqf	Xu_R: I thought I deleted them
kb9vqf	let me take another look
kb9vqf	Xu_R: OK, try again
Xu_R	ok, registered, and waiting for the registration email....
Xu_R	hm, I may sound impatient, but the email isn't coming (same thing like before)
kb9vqf	really?
kb9vqf	hmmm
kb9vqf	it should :-/
Xu_R	:-\
kb9vqf	BTW before there was no SMTP account so the Email program just failed
Xu_R	ah.
kb9vqf	As long as you did not receive an HTTP/500 error then the Email *should* have been sent
Xu_R	I didn't... :\
kb9vqf	Of course there could also be a bug in Django/Patchwork
kb9vqf	who knows
Xu_R	hehe
Xu_R	kb9vqf: i'll check it again in a bit, I have to bbl.
kb9vqf	OK
Xu_R	bbl
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MutantTurkey	o.
MutantTurkey	o/
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MutantTurkey	hey guys
eldowan	yo MutantTurkey
eldowan	how's life?
MutantTurkey	eh
MutantTurkey	working and stuff
MutantTurkey	two jobs, lots of linux stuff, have a great girlfriend, my band is coming together.
MutantTurkey	things are looking pretty solid
ar	do you have any time left for sleep?
MutantTurkey	not at all
MutantTurkey	I haven't been sleeping enough
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eldowan	MutantTurkey: wow, that's a full plate and then some.
eldowan	what kind of band? what's your rold?
MutantTurkey	eldowan: uh sort of just like rock
MutantTurkey	well thats not totally accurate
MutantTurkey	but it's pretty close
MutantTurkey	I am singer and guitar player and going to be the bass player when we find a replacement guitarist
eldowan	oh nice. you guys just starting out, or you been in the scene for a while?
MutantTurkey	this band is just starting up
MutantTurkey	I was in a jam band earlier last year, and we had alot of cool material, but for some reason no one was motivated to gig at all. hence we just became a sort of jamband
MutantTurkey	but i have the keys player from the old band, a new guitarist, and potentially a new drummer
MutantTurkey	on top of that I am working on getting recordings done for other local bands
MutantTurkey	eldowan: check this single out, I did for a band called Clairvoyance, which has alot of my pals in it
MutantTurkey	http://www.facebook.com/clairvoyanceband?sk=app_178091127385
MutantTurkey	listen to "button up"
eldowan	will do.
eldowan	what are you p laying here?
MutantTurkey	I producced it
MutantTurkey	mixed, setup the studio space
eldowan	gotcha
MutantTurkey	basically all the work to let the band just focus on the music
eldowan	they aren't bad.
MutantTurkey	not for a bunch of kids...
MutantTurkey	i think the quality is pretty good
MutantTurkey	would like to vocals to be a bit warmer oh well.
eldowan	eh, you can always remaster if you have the orig tracks.
MutantTurkey	I do.
MutantTurkey	but the vocals are just a tad crappy imho
MutantTurkey	I cleaned it up about a million times better
eldowan	ah, they don't seem to be the most steady, that's for sure. kinda seems he's a little sharp sounding (duno about flat / sharp, but i mean to my ears)
MutantTurkey	yes I hear ya
MutantTurkey	they also have like 3 people sining at once
MutantTurkey	towards the end
MutantTurkey	complicates fixing it
eldowan	so true
MutantTurkey	because it was done together
eldowan	oh, on the one track?
MutantTurkey	yes
MutantTurkey	but that was the only one I did they put up
MutantTurkey	the cracked glass demo is way worse quality, but whatever.
eldowan	buddy of mine turned his house into a studio, did it right. soundproofed everything, master control room, silent rooms, nice vocal booth.
eldowan	the entire 2nd floor is recording space, and his master bedroom is his mixing control room.
MutantTurkey	thats the plan
MutantTurkey	:)
MutantTurkey	$30,000, a house and a decent ear = instant studio
MutantTurkey	my buddy actually works for a new label startup and thats what the guy did.
eldowan	oh nice.
eldowan	yeah, he's on his way to finishing it and trying to attract artists to record.
eldowan	he's also a /stellar/ musician, with contacts all over the city. so hopefully he does well.
MutantTurkey	sounds like my buy
MutantTurkey	guy'
MutantTurkey	Ace Enders?
MutantTurkey	1 in a million chance...
MutantTurkey	ugh builing on a G5 Mac takes forever...
eldowan	nah, my guys is Cael.
MutantTurkey	ah
MutantTurkey	either way something i'd like to do
eldowan	what region are you in anyway? we'er in the general Houston area.
MutantTurkey	Philidelphia
eldowan	ah, well that'd explain it.
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MutantTurkey	yeah :)
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MutantTurkey	yawn
eldowan	yeah, can't wait for the day to be over.
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Xu_R	kb9vqf: WOAH, finally found the patchwork confi'rmation email.
Xu_R	it ended up in my spam
Xu_R	because the email has "example.com" in it...
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kb9vqf	example.com?
kb9vqf	hmm
* kb9vqf goes to check the configuration again
Borg^Queen	does anyone have time to help me figure out an error build mkvtools?
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eldowan	Borg^Queen: I dont' know how much /help/ i'll be... i usually install from apt
Borg^Queen	ok
Borg^Queen	I think I'm onto something hang ok
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Should be fixed (I hope)
Borg^Queen	ok it keeps saying checking for EBML... no
Borg^Queen	the libebml libs are installed to /usr/local/lib and /usr/local/include
Borg^Queen	this is the config line
Borg^Queen	./configure --with-matroska-include=/usr/local/include/matroska \
Borg^Queen	--with-matroska-lib=/usr/local/lib \
Borg^Queen	--with-ebml-include=/usr/local/include \
Borg^Queen	--with-ebml-lib=/usr/local/lib
Borg^Queen	clearly I'm doing something wrong since they are installed
MutantTurkey	Borg^Queen: what is the error
MutantTurkey	are your paths correct? verify that
Borg^Queen	checking for EBML... no
MutantTurkey	did you double check the paths?
Borg^Queen	that's the only error, not much feedback and yes, I checked the paths
Borg^Queen	but let me check again
MutantTurkey	is there an error file there?
MutantTurkey	not sure what it maybe be called, but look in the dir
Borg^Queen	checking
MutantTurkey	may have some specificis
Borg^Queen	yes they're correct
MutantTurkey	okay
MutantTurkey	any error in the build files?
Borg^Queen	checking now
Borg^Queen	one error
Borg^Queen	conftest.cc: In function 'int main()':
Borg^Queen	conftest.cc:15: error: 'exit' was not declared in this scope
Borg^Queen	next
Borg^Queen	configure:3368: g++ -c -g -O2  conftest.cc >&5
Borg^Queen	conftest.cc:11: error: 'void std::exit(int)' should have been declared inside 'std'
MutantTurkey	okay that seems unrelated to the includes
MutantTurkey	view the conftest.cc
Borg^Queen	I know but just in case
MutantTurkey	maybe thier test is failing to build...
MutantTurkey	look at the file
Borg^Queen	I see nothing
Borg^Queen	what files should I be looking at
Borg^Queen	it finds everything but that embl
MutantTurkey	hrm
MutantTurkey	no idea then :/
Borg^Queen	aye
Borg^Queen	AH! find newer versions
Borg^Queen	hang on
MutantTurkey	?
Xu_R	back
Xu_R	kb9vqf: works OK :D
* Xu_R is now going to start throwing SuSE patches up knowing they don't get lost. hopefully.
MutantTurkey	any recommends on windows free laptops?
MutantTurkey	I don't want to pay the extra $150 for no reason.
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kb9vqf	Xu_R: They won't be lost
kb9vqf	tape backups are scheduled :)
Xu_R	:D
kb9vqf	just remember...plain text patches ONLY (as attachments preferred)
kb9vqf	no .gz stuff
MutantTurkey	no gz stuff?
Xu_R	I always paste the patch into the message itself.
* Xu_R never messes with attachments
MutantTurkey	yeah I prefer that also
MutantTurkey	so you can review them in commenting back :)
kb9vqf	yes
kb9vqf	and also so that patchwork will pick them up
kb9vqf	patchwork doesn't decompress tarballs due to the danger of a tarbomb
Borg^Queen	TAPE?
kb9vqf	it's actually better than disk
kb9vqf	lower BER
kb9vqf	higher reliability
kb9vqf	lower cost
kb9vqf	:)
Xu_R	I'm actually going to use a different email address for emailing patches because it's easier for me to keep track
kb9vqf	sure
MutantTurkey	any laptop recommends?
* kb9vqf has had "good" "enterprise class" disks fail way too often
kb9vqf	I used to recommend Lenovo but I think their stuff has gone down the sewer lately
Xu_R	Lenovo is still pretty good.
Xu_R	but yea, going down a bit faster than expected
Xu_R	how about Toshiba?
kb9vqf	The new stuff has a pretty high failure rate
Borg^Queen	lenovo rocks
* Xu_R thinks Toshiba is good
kb9vqf	Stay far away from Toshiba IMHO
Borg^Queen	toshiba is very anti foss
Xu_R	ah. figures.
* Xu_R only used Toshiba with windows
Borg^Queen	I don't like toshiba, had business dealings with them, horrorible company
MutantTurkey	yeah I am thinking a stinkpad actually...
MutantTurkey	i like lenovo they are troopers
Xu_R	stinkpad LOL
kb9vqf	My r61 just keeps going...and going...
Borg^Queen	lol
eldowan	stinkpad indeed
MutantTurkey	well that name is obviously applied joking.
kb9vqf	also my T400
MutantTurkey	because they are the #1 trusted brand for buisnesses.
Xu_R	ah, my cousin has a T400. It broke in China, and we got it fixed pretty quickly
Xu_R	:D
eldowan	we had almost every one of our old t41 era ones failed.
Borg^Queen	MutantTurkey: my old ibm "stink" pad has been puked on by babies, thrown down a flight of stairs, and still works perfectly
eldowan	Borg^Queen: really? we had almost the exact opposite experience
MutantTurkey	so I am thinking a stinkpad then.
Borg^Queen	eldowan: ?
Xu_R	only yours, Borg^Queen, will ever face torture like that
eldowan	w/ the stinkpads
kb9vqf	My r61 has had water dropped on it, it's been sat on, and it still works great
Borg^Queen	Xu_R: wait til you have kids
MutantTurkey	really that bad of luck? eldowan
eldowan	we had over 15 fail
eldowan	and didn't even have 30 total
Borg^Queen	I and curse you with a dozen kids
Borg^Queen	eldowan: consumer or industrial machines
kb9vqf	the new ones eldowan?
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Borg^Queen	there's a HUGE differenece
eldowan	Borg^Queen: business class, old IBM
Xu_R	Borg^Queen: LOL.
eldowan	kb9vqf ^
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Xu_R	how wonderful.
MutantTurkey	hummmm weird. got disconnected
eldowan	kb9vqf: gotta quick question about trinity for ya, fi you have the time
MutantTurkey	anyway, experience with lenevo is positive?
Borg^Queen	eldowan: if they run windows, they were not industrial grade
Xu_R	lenovo = :D
Borg^Queen	MutantTurkey: very positive. I even called them and ended up talking to 5 techs at once
eldowan	Borg^Queen: aah, yeah, those were all old xp boxes
MutantTurkey	excellent
Borg^Queen	eldowan: not industrial grade
MutantTurkey	specifically which ones?
Borg^Queen	Generally the ones over 1k US with a 3 year warranty
eldowan	ours? t40 t41 t42 IIRC
Borg^Queen	the 1 year ones are consumers
MutantTurkey	Borg^Queen: I don't need warranty.
Borg^Queen	Ihave a t40
Borg^Queen	MutantTurkey: and you don't need a helmet or hand rails
MutantTurkey	Borg^Queen: statistically not worth it...
kb9vqf	warranty is a good thing....
Borg^Queen	aye
MutantTurkey	statistically warrantys are not worth it.
kb9vqf	yes they are for one reason: infant death
Borg^Queen	I have a t30 that was beaten to death, new HD and BOOM working for 5 years and going
kb9vqf	there is more and more infant death due to lower QC at the factory
kb9vqf	no warranty == SOL
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: rreally?
kb9vqf	yes
MutantTurkey	its funny
MutantTurkey	because normal companies will just give you a warranty and service
MutantTurkey	only computer ones are assholes and charge extra...
kb9vqf	don't get me started on the new "enterprise" hard disks I tried to purchase
kb9vqf	hehe
Borg^Queen	a computer is most likely to fail within 60 days of initial operation
kb9vqf	right
kb9vqf	that's "infant death"
Borg^Queen	aye exactly
MutantTurkey	then an included 1 year warrenty is nbest.
Borg^Queen	if you get a industrial grade one, it will have linux and a 3 y war
MutantTurkey	Borg^Queen: link please
kb9vqf	I can personally recommend up to the T400 series
Borg^Queen	a small Chinese man like Xu_R will follow you around of you get the special package
kb9vqf	after that things get dicey
Borg^Queen	t400 yes
MutantTurkey	420?
kb9vqf	sounds like a consumer model
MutantTurkey	they have a $700 sale.
MutantTurkey	i mean....
Borg^Queen	avoid, the lowend and extremely high end
MutantTurkey	1750 vs 1000
kb9vqf	get the one with the mil-spec testing :)
Xu_R	t400 ftw
kb9vqf	the T400 had that testing and it just keeps going
MutantTurkey	I am going to take the train, we can talk more when i get home
Borg^Queen	agreed
Xu_R	Borg^Queen: I'm freaking 6ft2...
Borg^Queen	k be safe
Xu_R	well, almost. like 6ft1...
Borg^Queen	Xu_R: ahh industrial grade chinese
Xu_R	...-_-
Borg^Queen	Wait I thought you were mexican
MutantTurkey	t400 seems to be the older core2 models
MutantTurkey	i need one with the i3 i5 i7 series
Borg^Queen	yes, but its rock solid
MutantTurkey	anyway gotta go!
MutantTurkey	thanks!
Borg^Queen	k
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Borg^Queen	gn to all
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MutantTurkey	night
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alexbobp	I'm running trinity on debian
alexbobp	one time I caught nepomuk using up 3GB of ram
alexbobp	so I was wondering what nepomuk is for and how I can get rid of it if it's not important
Xu_R	alexbobp: nepomuk is part of kde4.
Xu_R	you can remove it freely via your package manager.
alexbobp	ah okay
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eldowan	alexbobp: when I log into my squeeze box I kill nepomuk and plasma-netbook and don't ahve any memory issues. if you remove nepomuk I think it may take all of kde4 away. I know that removing plasma-netbook wants to.
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backwoodsman	hi all..  any chance of binaries being made for Debian Testing? I'd like to install Trinity on Mint Debian, but it's based on Testing, and the Squeeze binaries won't install due to unresolved dependencies.
kb9vqf	working on compilation tests for Maverick now...binaries would be built after those are successful
backwoodsman	Maverick? I thought those were already available. In any case, would that work on Mint Debian?
kb9vqf	yes--for 3.5.12
kb9vqf	I'm tackling one problem at a time
kb9vqf	by using a known-sane build environment I can know for certain that any problems I run into are a direct result of source changes from 3.5.12 to the current source HEAD revisions
kb9vqf	once the code is known-good then I will build against other environments that may or may not work properly the first tiem
kb9vqf	*time
kb9vqf	and know that any problems I run into there are caused by the new environment, not fundamental flaws in the source code
kb9vqf	:)
backwoodsman	sounds good..  I'll try the Maverick binaries on Mint 11, I believe that should work.
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	let us know if they work or not
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backwoodsman	Neither Maverick nor Debian Squeeze install instructions work on Linux Mint 11, due to broken dependencies.
backwoodsman	I guess I'll have to grit my teeth and install Ubuntu :)
alexbobp	eldowan|afk: well... I'm A-OK with taking all of KDE 4 away :P
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joeytwiddle	i still use XMMS too.  it rocks!
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eldowan|afk	alexbobp: good deal. both the netbook-plasma and nepokserver are in /usr/bin and I just mv <> <>.old and they don't start at all. I do like some of hte kde4 apps, so I may keep it around a bit.
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kb9vqf	Xu_R: Keep adding patches to Patchwork...
* kb9vqf has already handled quite a few: http://patchwork.trinitydesktop.org/project/trinity/list/?state=*
kb9vqf	:)
Xu_R	kb9vqf: nice! :D
Xu_R	hmm... darn it - seems like patchwork mishandled some of my patches :-\
kb9vqf	?
Xu_R	ex. http://patchwork.trinitydesktop.org/patch/19/ it didn't get the whole patch
Xu_R	the top half it got, the bottom half is still in the email message...
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mk_MP	Hi, is there anyone else active on the channel except robots?
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mk_MP	Hi, Borg^Queen, are you a bot or not?
Borg^Queen	Of course I'm a bot
mk_MP	Good. :-)
* Borg^Queen assimilates mk_MP
mk_MP	I am new to this channel and on the search for information...
Borg^Queen	Ah ok shoot
mk_MP	Trying to incorporate knowledge from the Borg.
mk_MP	:-)
Borg^Queen	lol
mk_MP	Look,  I only learnt about trinity project today.
mk_MP	Any I am impressed.
Borg^Queen	Its a great project, and getting better all the time. More and more distros are picking it up.
mk_MP	I wondered whether trinity includes also QT3 and not only KDE3...
Borg^Queen	It does
mk_MP	I see.
mk_MP	That sounds interesting indeed.
Borg^Queen	it is
mk_MP	Look, there is the idea to include trinity in MacPorts for Mac OS X.
Borg^Queen	Sweet
mk_MP	At the moment there is qt3 and qt3-mac available and also kde3...
Borg^Queen	kb9vqf: is the founder, he would be very interested in this
mk_MP	but there seems to be reoccuring trouble now.
Borg^Queen	trouble?
mk_MP	I learnt from a friend who recently upgraded to Lion with Xcode 4.1 that now (after selfupdateing and upgrading MacPorts) qt3 won't build anymore.
Borg^Queen	sounds like a bug in the recent update
Borg^Queen	report it to macports
mk_MP	This is a real pain, since up to now KDE3 had always been our safety net with respect to KMyMoney.
Borg^Queen	good app kmymoney
mk_MP	KMyMoney4 on KDE4 is still having loads of trouble.
Borg^Queen	what are the error msgs?
Borg^Queen	everything in kde4 is having loads of trouble
mk_MP	So, KMyMoney 1.0.5 was always a safe fallback solution.
Borg^Queen	agreed
mk_MP	With a broken qt3 port this would be gone.
mk_MP	For me
mk_MP	on Snow Leopart
mk_MP	all is still okay
Borg^Queen	hmm
mk_MP	but my friend's machine is bonked with respect to KDE3.
mk_MP	So,
mk_MP	the idea was to get trinity up and running via MacPorts.
mk_MP	I saw from your webpage that there are only Linuxes up to now supported.
Borg^Queen	kb9vqf: is the man to speak to, he's the founder and who know far more about fixing it than I would
mk_MP	But I think it would be really worthwhile to get it to life on Mac OSX, since it has evolved quite a bit since the 3.3.8 currently in qt3 port on MacPorts.
mk_MP	OK, I wonder how I could contact kb9vqf...
Borg^Queen	agreed
Borg^Queen	hang on
mk_MP	will do
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Submit your patches as attachments
kb9vqf	BTW I'm here :)
kb9vqf	I have NO mac experience whatsoever
mk_MP	Hi kb9vqf, good to see you here!
mk_MP	Great project!!!
kb9vqf	file a bug at http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net with the compilation error message and I'll see if anything stands out :)
kb9vqf	thanks!
Borg^Queen	oih there he is
mk_MP	Well, I don't know whether I'll be able to contribute really. but I'd try to get it to build here on the Mac.
kb9vqf	we do maintain Qt3 so there is half a chance that I may be able to help
mk_MP	Ah, ok, also for qt3
kb9vqf	I can't build it on a mac here (obviously) but if you provide the build logs I may be able to see what can be fixed
Borg^Queen	kb9vqf: mac is a unix os (darwin) running a similair to kde3 UI
mk_MP	Great. Good to be in touch then.
kb9vqf	Borg_Queen: I know :)
Borg^Queen	ah ok
kb9vqf	but as far as hands on experience...well
mk_MP	Yep, I'll use your bug tracker then. :-) Very good.
Borg^Queen	kb9vqf: aye
* kb9vqf counted clicks for common tasks on one once--that's it :)
Borg^Queen	lol
kb9vqf	mk_MP: Sounds good
mk_MP	Is there a tarball avilable for download for trinity?
kb9vqf	yes
kb9vqf	3.5.12 is on the main page
mk_MP	Couldn't find the right link on the main page. Must have been blind.
kb9vqf	hmmm...maybe it used to be there and isn't anymore
* kb9vqf goes to look
mk_MP	Please do, there are only instruction, release notes and that is it.
kb9vqf	It's under the Releases tab
mk_MP	Ah, ok
kb9vqf	click 3.5.12 and there will be a tarball download like
mk_MP	Found it.
kb9vqf	*link
kb9vqf	ok
mk_MP	Would be better to have a more direct path to it. :-)
kb9vqf	it is not obvious at all apparently :-P
kb9vqf	Maybe "Downloads" would be better than "Releases"
kb9vqf	?
mk_MP	Yep
kb9vqf	OK
* kb9vqf goes to change it now
mk_MP	OK, I wonder what packages I'd need to get a running qt3 plus basic kde3, so that I'd be able to build kmymoney on to of that.
kb9vqf	fixed :)
mk_MP	I don't see a qt3 package anywhere...
kb9vqf	qt3, arts, kdelibs, kmymoney
kb9vqf	qt3 is in our GIT repository
mk_MP	Again I am blind
mk_MP	Oh
kb9vqf	you caught us in the middle of a move to GIT
mk_MP	THat's not obvious from the releases page
kb9vqf	no it is not
mk_MP	I see.
kb9vqf	as of the 3.5.12 release we were NOT maintaining qt3
mk_MP	I'd like to have a tarball here as well.
mk_MP	YOu are not?
kb9vqf	3.5.12 was released a while ago
mk_MP	I thought you did as well, as being part of kde3/trinity?!
kb9vqf	we decided to maintain qt3 after 3.5.12 was released
mk_MP	Ah
mk_MP	ok
kb9vqf	make sense?
mk_MP	yep
Xu_R	kb9vqf: oh - nah, I like them inline in the end :P besides, it didn't catch MutantTurkey's when he sent his as an attachment
kb9vqf	it didn't make it into the 3.5.12 release notes for obvious reasons ;-)
mk_MP	So, I need a tarball of it as well.
kb9vqf	hang on
kb9vqf	http://git.trinitydesktop.org/viewgit/index.php?a=tree&p=Trinity%20Desktop%20Environment&hb=HEAD&f=main/dependencies/qt3
kb9vqf	There is a link at the bottom for a .tar.gz file
mk_MP	OK, see it
kb9vqf	this stuff is not publicly documented yet because 3.5.13 is not yet released
mk_MP	No release number is actually connected with it...
kb9vqf	right
mk_MP	http://git.trinitydesktop.org/viewgit/index.php?a=archive&p=Trinity%20Desktop%20Environment&h=4116ba197904ebc0b37d7c2d4cef71d58aec6649&t=targz
kb9vqf	3.5.13 should come out in the fall if all goes well
mk_MP	I see...
mk_MP	Hmm...
kb9vqf	then there will be more extensive release notes, including coverage of our qt3 repo
mk_MP	OK,
kb9vqf	as of right now qt3 is at version 3.3.8d
kb9vqf	but that is not a final release
mk_MP	ok. qt3-mac is at 3.3.8b, I think.
kb9vqf	if you find bugs while compiling qt3 please let us know
kb9vqf	and we will attempt to fix the problems and include them in the official 3.3.8d release
mk_MP	OK, I'll try to download the stuff and try to build it here.
kb9vqf	include the patches that is :)
kb9vqf	ok
mk_MP	OK, you 've to give me time though. I'm not the official maintainer of the qt3 port on MacPorts and have at first to figure out whether I can easily replace the current tarball against your modified one.
kb9vqf	sure
mk_MP	Once I've set it up I'll report back to you.
kb9vqf	right
kb9vqf	Email on the mailing list may be easiest
mk_MP	Shall I use the bug tracker for communication with you
mk_MP	or ML
mk_MP	OK
kb9vqf	trinity-devel or the bugtracker
mk_MP	I see ML is best.
mk_MP	I prefer ML
kb9vqf	ok
mk_MP	for discussions
mk_MP	bt for bug.
kb9vqf	yes
kb9vqf	keeps it organized and neat :)
mk_MP	OK, thatnks for now!!!
mk_MP	Was great to talk to you!!!!
kb9vqf	thanks, and thanks for offering to help in this area!
mk_MP	Thanks for your help so far, I'll come back to you through the list and perhaps also using IRC.
mk_MP	You are welcome. :-)
mk_MP	OK, have to go to bed now.
mk_MP	Bye!!!
kb9vqf	see ya
kb9vqf	:)
mk_MP	:-)
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kb9vqf	Xu_R: I have no idea why patchwork is eating inline patches
kb9vqf	It's not my code after all :-//
kb9vqf	maybe you want to ask upstream to the maintainer?
kb9vqf	Also mac support sounds good
kb9vqf	I was wondering if kmymoney was really that bad under KDE4...I guess it is! :-P
kb9vqf	BTW kmymoney is in our source tree as of a few weeks ago
* kb9vqf listens to the droning of crickets
Xu_R	kb9vqf: I think it's because I didn't format the email message correctly >_>
kb9vqf	well, don't do that :-P
kb9vqf	Which ones are corrupt
kb9vqf	?
kb9vqf	I'll mark them as rejected
Xu_R	both of them, actually - (the ones with "Patches at Lincom" as the submitter)
kb9vqf	ok
Xu_R	I'll resubmit them
kb9vqf	Ah, even better I was able to delete them
kb9vqf	so submit away
Xu_R	ok
Xu_R	now to see if patchwork caught it.
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Also, any chance that I can get some help with fixing the bugs on the bugtracker....??
Xu_R	sure
kb9vqf	3.5.13 is blocked on that
kb9vqf	and by help I mean that you guys puck a bug, fix it, and send a patch in to the bug report :)
kb9vqf	*pick
kb9vqf	I'm pretty busy on this end keeping up with the patches and fixing glitches that are not reported to the bugtracker yet
Xu_R	ok
kb9vqf	also starting Natty builds, which will undoubtedly reveal a mass of steaming gcc4.6 problems
Xu_R	ah, fun.
Xu_R	i'll check for any gcc46 patches I can find
* kb9vqf is not looking forward to it
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	Here's another fun Qt4-related glitch
kb9vqf	/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.4.5/../../../../lib/libtqassistantclient.a: could not read symbols: Bad value
Xu_R	>_>
kb9vqf	Only happens on kdevelop, and only on amd64 :-P
Xu_R	oh god, that sucks
kb9vqf	On the plus side I successfully built our Qt3.3.8d code under Debian
kb9vqf	with only 4 patches needed :)
kb9vqf	(Debian/Ubuntu specific patches)
kb9vqf	sure beats the several dozen (!) that were originally required
Xu_R	nice.
Xu_R	D: wow. patchwork didn't catch my media-crypt_teardown.diff patch but caught the security one...
* kb9vqf goes to investigate
Xu_R	oh, and it messed up the patch inline again.
* Xu_R sighs and gives up for now
kb9vqf	beats me :;/
Xu_R	kb9vqf: you already have the patches anyway, so i'm assuming it's thunderbird that's screwing me up
kb9vqf	as I said...attach them....
Xu_R	kb9vqf: it didn't catch MutantTurkey's ODBC patch that he didn't attach inline D:
kb9vqf	grrr
kb9vqf	I don't have the patience or time to pick through the ML to find patches
Xu_R	>_>
Xu_R	I know...
kb9vqf	If patchwork isn't working can you post the URLs to the patches in the ML archives on an Etherpad?
Xu_R	sure
kb9vqf	thanks
Xu_R	np
Borg^Queen	gn to all
Xu_R	nite borgy
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Piki	hi
Piki	kb9vqf, doesn't tbottu like being a tyrant? :-D
kb9vqf	hehe
kb9vqf	not anymore
kb9vqf	not after his brain transplant
Piki	transplant?
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kb9vqf	I switched bots, as mozbot was not reliable enough
kb9vqf	he may become a tyrant again if login abilities are desired on this channel...time will tell
Piki	what bot are you using now?
Piki	the trinity-users ML is listed as high traffic, but it has fewer posts for july than trintiy-devel, which is listed as moderate :-P
kb9vqf	yes, I did notice that
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hazridi	I just installed network-manager-kde-trinity (I'm running squeeze) and it doesn't seem to function. My wifi card is working properly and I can set it up manually or with ceni.
hazridi	nevermind -- it was unmanaged due to being in /etc/network/interfaces
hazridi	now trinity is pretty much KDE 3, but perfect
kb9vqf	Glad to hear it :)
hazridi	spoke a little too soon, as it doesn't seem to want to connect to either of my APs... cnetworkmanager is working though
kb9vqf	I assume you restarted your machine after removing the interface from /etc/network/interfaces?
kb9vqf	if not sometimes networkmanager gets confused
hazridi	I restarted network-manager...  using cnetworkmanager (cli interface to n-m) it connected OK
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Xu_R	meep~~
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s15y2	Hi, would this bug: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124053 be hard to solve in trinity?
tbottu	04Bug 124053: was not found.
s15y2	"Having hundreds of feeds renders akregator useless."
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Borg^Queen	Entities
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Borg^Queen	gn to all
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MutantTurkey	hey all
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Xu_R	soo... what happened to tbottu? XD it looks like it had spazzing moments
kb9vqf	I was getting messages in the logs requesting that I authenticate to Freenode....
kb9vqf	so I had to set up the authentication plugin
kb9vqf	that little process required several reloads
Xu_R	ah.
Xu_R	looks like tbottu is dictator again then...
kb9vqf	obviously it's working then :)
kb9vqf	if people here don't like it I can probably deop him, but personally I don't see the harm
MutantTurkey	:P
MutantTurkey	I think he's good here.
Xu_R	keep him :P
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: Any progress on that "developers portal" page for the Website?
kb9vqf	Or some bug fixes? :-)
kb9vqf	Xu_R: You too regarding the bug fixes...
kb9vqf	Maybe someone can look at that oh-so-stale BOTW in the topic?
* kb9vqf is trying to keep things moving along....
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: honestly I am trying to pull some free time together for it
kb9vqf	ok, sounds good
MutantTurkey	I still am working on getting it all built.
kb9vqf	sure
MutantTurkey	which makes me wonder if i should just do a debian install on another box to test and build trinity...
kb9vqf	I'm also starting builds under Natty, so gcc4.6 issues should be resolved soon
Xu_R	kb9vqf: many of the bugs on that bugtracker I'm not reproducing... which leads me to wonder if system is working right.
Xu_R	*if my system
kb9vqf	If you are not reproducing them flag that on the bug report
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: was I supposed to create the page? D: okay! :p
kb9vqf	it is possible (likely even) that some of the more recent changes I put into SVN fixed some of the obscure bugs
kb9vqf	that could have been caused by memory corruption
kb9vqf	kdesktop was leaking like a sieve on later gcc versions
kb9vqf	that has been fixed
Xu_R	kb9vqf: I'm planning on reinstalling my trinity VM ASAP, so I'll try to see if I can reproduce the bugs again
kb9vqf	good
kb9vqf	If neither you nor MutantTurkey can reproduce a bug mark it as RESOLVED/INVALID and state that you cannot reporoduce it
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: so the whole kdesktop problem is fixed in the svn right?
kb9vqf	Also ask the reporter to verify that he can reproduce it under the latest GIT
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: Yes!
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: sweet.
kb9vqf	valgrind was helpful
kb9vqf	but it still took quite a while
MutantTurkey	I think i am going to clock out and get back to work
kb9vqf	the problems were obscure
kb9vqf	ok
MutantTurkey	on trinity
MutantTurkey	wow its thundering and storming like crazy all of a sudden
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eldowan	oh, nice
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: so you are also using tde-packaging right?
kb9vqf	yes
MutantTurkey	this git problem is a pain in the arse
MutantTurkey	the not being able to clone only parts of the tree
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: question abotu that odbc patch
kb9vqf	yes?
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kb9vqf	looks like I got bumped off
kb9vqf	what was your question?
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MutantTurkey	http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/?0s::2714
MutantTurkey	piccoro said something, I have no idea what though.
kb9vqf	If that is the same patch I am thinking of, yes, it was applied to the Qt3 branch in GIT
kb9vqf	not sure though, and I'm not going to go picking through random tarballs to find out!
MutantTurkey	mine or his?
MutantTurkey	mine was a few lines
MutantTurkey	updates a few defintions thats all
kb9vqf	his
kb9vqf	is yours not in GIT?
MutantTurkey	thats why I sent it in to see...
kb9vqf	link please?
kb9vqf	if it was in patchwork I probably already processed it
kb9vqf	BTW did I mention how much I hate Qt4? http://git.trinitydesktop.org/viewgit/index.php?a=commit&p=Trinity%%20Desktop%%20Environment&h=a7b8e6024196412a8849d00f68c01512dbf80e37
MutantTurkey	Invalid Project?
MutantTurkey	link is a no go
MutantTurkey	well, qt3 is building so far :) so hopefully that's one thing out of the way
kb9vqf	invalid project?
kb9vqf	on the git link I just posted?
MutantTurkey	yes.
kb9vqf	hmm, you're right
MutantTurkey	I see it though
MutantTurkey	I looked at it by the commit md5 or whatever
MutantTurkey	Nokia is seriously dropping the ball lately.
kb9vqf	Try this
kb9vqf	http://git.trinitydesktop.org/viewgit/index.php?a=commit&p=Trinity%20Desktop%20Environment&h=a7b8e6024196412a8849d00f68c01512dbf80e37
kb9vqf	ah, ok
MutantTurkey	yeah I got it. but that's ridiculous
kb9vqf	I mean seriously, what's so hard about making sure that a double is actually a *double* so that comparisons work?!?
MutantTurkey	Qt4 seems less and less viable haha.
kb9vqf	hehe
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: did you report it?
kb9vqf	no, because I don't have time to put together a test case
MutantTurkey	ah
kb9vqf	and I saw a couple bugs already
kb9vqf	along those lines
kb9vqf	Nokia's answer: "Tough rocks"
kb9vqf	(paraphrased)
kb9vqf	actually they went on about how double is an approximation
kb9vqf	and this is to be expected
kb9vqf	all I know is that behaviour like that is going to break a lot of code bery subtly
kb9vqf	*very
MutantTurkey	...
kb9vqf	In this case (TQString("3.3").toDouble() > 3.3) was returning TRUE!
MutantTurkey	yeah they are dumb.
MutantTurkey	how is "approximately" large?
MutantTurkey	larger than?
kb9vqf	I know
kb9vqf	this worked:
kb9vqf	In this case (TQString("3.2999999999").toDouble() > 3.3) was returning TRUE!
kb9vqf	that is, (TQString("3.2999999999").toDouble() > 3.3) returned false
kb9vqf	as it is supposed to
MutantTurkey	oh man
kb9vqf	and only on i386...and only on gcc4.6....
kb9vqf	:-P
kb9vqf	(i.e. Ubuntu Natty i386)
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: Can you check this again?
kb9vqf	rsync rsync://rsync.pearsoncomputing.net
kb9vqf	I'm getting complaints of failure on the QuickBuild IP address again
kb9vqf	yet the mirrors synced up normally this morning (???)
MutantTurkey	also, if you want to make me a package mirror I could do that.
MutantTurkey	I am getting nothing.
MutantTurkey	it is just hnaging
kb9vqf	great
kb9vqf	/sarcasm
MutantTurkey	:-P
kb9vqf	Now I get to wonder if my ISP is throttling/disconnecting that port or if I had something fail
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Xu_R	sorry for that random d/c
Xu_R	windows is so lovely.
MutantTurkey	honestly the windows desktop experience IMHO is way ahead of linux right now
MutantTurkey	for regular users.
Xu_R	I know...
Xu_R	but the stability can kiss my @$$
MutantTurkey	yeah seriously
* kb9vqf reminds MutantTurkey of Windows 8
MutantTurkey	windows 8?
kb9vqf	ick ick ick
Xu_R	AHHHH WINDOWS 8 *dies*
kb9vqf	google it
Xu_R	that new interface makes vista nice
MutantTurkey	hahah
* kb9vqf knows *gag*
Xu_R	nice to know i'm not the only one thinking that XD
kb9vqf	unlike Linux, there is no Windows 7 UI fork possible...
kb9vqf	Linux may show its strengths ye
kb9vqf	*yet
Xu_R	hopefully
MutantTurkey	so...
MutantTurkey	It's like the windows 7 phone
kb9vqf	well, I like to think I am in control of my desktop, and that just won't do it
kb9vqf	I never feel fully in control of a cell phone :-P
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: yup
MutantTurkey	wow.
MutantTurkey	so is it for a desktop or not?
kb9vqf	yes, that's their new desktop
MutantTurkey	weird
kb9vqf	that and they want all people to program desktop apps in HTML5 and JavaScript
kb9vqf	no C/C++/etc. allowe
kb9vqf	*allowed
MutantTurkey	what about C#?
kb9vqf	No
MutantTurkey	really?
Xu_R	they want .net to die too now...
kb9vqf	Nothing but HTML5 and JavaScript
MutantTurkey	that was like a big microsot thing
MutantTurkey	wow
MutantTurkey	I mean this doesn't feel like a pc
* kb9vqf thinks there will probably be a 6-figure cost for the "developers edition"
MutantTurkey	it's all touch based?
kb9vqf	yeah
Xu_R	they expect all the PCs to be touch now
kb9vqf	Now I am so glad that I don't do that Windows thing
kb9vqf	:)
MutantTurkey	yeah seriosuly
Xu_R	XD
MutantTurkey	this is great for linux!
Xu_R	I still need windows for apps... D:
MutantTurkey	Xu_R: no you wont
Xu_R	(thank god for virtualbox full screen mode)
MutantTurkey	all windows apps are going to be javascript + html.
MutantTurkey	so they will be cross platform...
Xu_R	I mean current apps
Xu_R	that aren't JS/HTML
kb9vqf	this sounds suspiciously like limiting the ability to generate new content
kb9vqf	== big bucks paid to the few who have the tools to generate new content
Xu_R	it sounds like Apple.
kb9vqf	and I mean quality "AAA" content
Xu_R	true.
MutantTurkey	but you can still get to the old shell right?
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: we're doubting that right now
kb9vqf	not for long if M$ follows its history
kb9vqf	general purpose computing, where everyone has the tools to develop new things, seems to be going away
kb9vqf	it's sad really
MutantTurkey	time for linux to rise :)
Xu_R	I hope so :D
MutantTurkey	not the way gnome3 is going...
kb9vqf	hence this project
MutantTurkey	they did the same thing as windows 8
MutantTurkey	I think xfce4 and triinty are the only two really good ones.
kb9vqf	"Want to be a CREATOR, not just a CONSUMER?"
MutantTurkey	as far as DE's
kb9vqf	:)
kb9vqf	we need a slogan
MutantTurkey	I wish xfce was a bit more flxible.
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: the only nice thing about GNOME 3 is extensions that allow you to completely change it (and make it gnome 2)
MutantTurkey	I think that the "app" idea could come to trinity but i don't see how
MutantTurkey	without bloating it up
MutantTurkey	I DO like the windows 8 shell they showed for maybe using on a mobile phone or a television screen
MutantTurkey	but not for a PC though
Xu_R	agreed.
kb9vqf	app idea?
kb9vqf	what specifically?
Xu_R	how about extensions?
kb9vqf	to do what?
Xu_R	actually, scratch that for now. I'm not thinking right
* kb9vqf notes that the framework for "extensions" is probably already there
* Xu_R is reinstalling trinity as we speak
kb9vqf	in fact the entire UI theming system is a type of "extension"
Xu_R	oh?
MutantTurkey	right that would be cool
MutantTurkey	kde3 is all module-ized
MutantTurkey	right?
MutantTurkey	like even with kparts and such
kb9vqf	yes it is
kb9vqf	so I ask again:
kb9vqf	what do you mean by extensions?
kb9vqf	what new functionality did you want to see?
MutantTurkey	I am not sure what he means
MutantTurkey	social networking extensions would be great
Xu_R	what I meant by extensions is like what GNOME Shell did - to customize the interface. that's why I said scratch that for now
kb9vqf	ah, ok
kb9vqf	because we have that
kb9vqf	there's even a theme to make a pretty good copy of OSX
Xu_R	yup.
* kb9vqf is not into social networking
MutantTurkey	I know :P
kb9vqf	but if one of you wanted to work on such a thing... :)
kb9vqf	I would almost suggest that those functions should not be part of the desktop core like KDE4
MutantTurkey	indeed
kb9vqf	but rather be added to Kopete/Kontact or some other systray resident app
kb9vqf	or even a new systray app
MutantTurkey	good thinking
Xu_R	just curious - have any of you also tried GNOME shell already?
kb9vqf	that's the sad thing: KDE4 requires you to interrupt your workflow and go to a widget embedded in the desktop, whereas the old systray model allows the user to receive/handle notifications without much interruption--
Xu_R	(and the extensions system?)
kb9vqf	click and the window is up, click again and it's gone
kb9vqf	Xu_R: no I have not
kb9vqf	and probably will not
MutantTurkey	less interuption is avorable
MutantTurkey	Xu_R: I have.
kb9vqf	avorable?
Xu_R	avorable?
MutantTurkey	favorable.
kb9vqf	yes
kb9vqf	that's the Trinity model
* Xu_R agrees
kb9vqf	in fact, the "docked apps" crud nowdays is just the systray model applied to arbitrary apps
kb9vqf	we could do that with probably a few hundred lines of code or less
MutantTurkey	yeah good thinking
kb9vqf	but why?
kb9vqf	it takes effort to design a good systray app
MutantTurkey	if its not useful, then we shouldn't do it.
kb9vqf	right
kb9vqf	IMO that's what the taskbar is for ;-)
MutantTurkey	I do think a certain amount of "new" stuff is good in a release!
kb9vqf	of course!
kb9vqf	but let's make it good new stuff
kb9vqf	not rehashing old ideas
MutantTurkey	indeed
kb9vqf	something sorely lacking is the equivalent of the Windows display control center
kb9vqf	that does not exist under ANY linux DE AFAIK
Xu_R	when you mean display control center
MutantTurkey	display control?
Xu_R	you're talking like the drivers, screen resolution?
MutantTurkey	I mean xfce has it
kb9vqf	really?
kb9vqf	cool
MutantTurkey	hold up
kb9vqf	hng on
MutantTurkey	let me get a screen
MutantTurkey	http://imagebin.org/164847
MutantTurkey	I don't know how it handles multiple monitors or anything ( i don't know much about how it works, and only have one screen)
Xu_R	I'm thinking kb9vqf means more like options that you can only find by modifying Xorg.conf...?
MutantTurkey	Xorg.conf doesn't exist anymore doesi t?
MutantTurkey	I know at least archlinux dropped it by default...
Xu_R	it's dropped by default, but you can still use it (Xorg.conf.d) and sometimes autoconfiguration doesn't work well
Xu_R	I know it's one reason that openSUSE went to work on making SaX3 (xorg config tool)
MutantTurkey	and doesn't kde4 have a decent one?
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kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: Try the GIT now
kb9vqf	mdadm decided to reconstruct the array on /dev/sdx instead of /dev/sdx1 :-P
Xu_R	kb9vqf: is the keyserver up?
kb9vqf	Dunno yet
kb9vqf	mdadm gave enough of a scare that I haven't checked
Xu_R	ah.
kb9vqf	try the rsync
kb9vqf	rsync rsync://rsync.pearsoncomputing.net
kb9vqf	if that works then they keyserver will be up shortly
kb9vqf	*the
Xu_R	i'm not supposed to be getting timeouts, right?
kb9vqf	no
Xu_R	(both keyserver and rsync report a timeout)
kb9vqf	grrr
MutantTurkey	rsync hangs
MutantTurkey	git is up
kb9vqf	good
kb9vqf	rsync is on the malfunctioning interface
kb9vqf	the one that prompted the reboot
kb9vqf	I'll have to look into it further
Xu_R	ah...
Xu_R	i'm guessing the malfunctioning interface is quickbuild?
kb9vqf	yep
kb9vqf	BUT
kb9vqf	it was working just fine this morning
kb9vqf	and all indications are it still works from this end
kb9vqf	so I'm wondering if my ISP is actually having the problem ATM
MutantTurkey	did you call them?
Xu_R	probably. do they have a status page?
kb9vqf	no time yet
kb9vqf	still working on bringing services up from the reboot
kb9vqf	:)
Xu_R	ah.
kb9vqf	i'll let you guys know when I know something
Xu_R	ok
MutantTurkey	qt is building away.
Xu_R	brb early dinner
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kb9vqf	MutantTurkey, Xu_R: Back online
kb9vqf	the modem kicked the interface
kb9vqf	rebooting fixed it
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Can you please check the keyservers?
MutantTurkey	cool
kb9vqf	every now and then it seems the ISP rejects a MAC address, especially under high load
kb9vqf	if this keeps up I will have to figure out why
kb9vqf	I take it everything is working now/
kb9vqf	?
MutantTurkey	I was cleaning my fan on my heatsink on an old computer a friend gave me, tried to take the fan off and the whole cpu and heatsink came with it...
MutantTurkey	haha
kb9vqf	A Pentium 4?
MutantTurkey	celeron D
MutantTurkey	just a little behind a P4
MutantTurkey	why?
kb9vqf	they have a nasty habit of gluing to the heatsink
kb9vqf	permanently
MutantTurkey	yeah
MutantTurkey	I hated P4's
MutantTurkey	but they were good workhorses
MutantTurkey	ran hot as hell
kb9vqf	yep
kb9vqf	the bad old days!
MutantTurkey	the bad old days
MutantTurkey	now I have a slick atom :)
kb9vqf	which can't do very much IIRC
kb9vqf	hmmm
kb9vqf	maybe those were the good old days :)
MutantTurkey	they do absolutely nothing :)
MutantTurkey	but nothing@12W@20C...
MutantTurkey	the computer paid itself off in power savings two years
kb9vqf	ah, but what services did you have to pay for to replace the lost functionality?
MutantTurkey	?
MutantTurkey	GAH BENT PIN :[ Processor is now useles.. ._.
Xu_R	back
kb9vqf	for example if you were building software you would now have to pay for an external build service, etc.
Xu_R	checking the keyservers
kb9vqf	ok
Xu_R	keyservers working
kb9vqf	great
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: Any chance you could set your VPS to check the status of the primary Trinity services (keyserver, etc.) and send an Email to me if they are down
kb9vqf	in an automated way?
kb9vqf	That would be a GREAT help
kb9vqf	or even poke me privately on IRC, but that is probably more complex
Xu_R	that sounds like pinging each of your subdomains...
kb9vqf	ping won't work
kb9vqf	but if you can telnet to 80 on my two IP addressess then everything is OK
kb9vqf	I can write the status check software if you want
kb9vqf	it would probably be in bash though
kb9vqf	the problem is I have no way of knowing if external access to either IP is actually working
kb9vqf	e.g. this recent problem still allowed internally generated traffic through (!??!?)
Xu_R	o_o
kb9vqf	I really wish Internet service in the USA was more reliable :-/
kb9vqf	No one wants to spend money to make it so
Xu_R	:-\
MutantTurkey	hmmm seems complicated
MutantTurkey	if you want to just write a script that I can cron
MutantTurkey	it would be good
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	I'll see what I can do
kb9vqf	I just have no way of knowing if something is inaccessible until someone mentions it right now
kb9vqf	which is not a good way to handle the site
MutantTurkey	I agree.
MutantTurkey	I could have my vps check hourly, and send you an automated phone call or something?
MutantTurkey	because if the website goes down, how can we reach you?
MutantTurkey	I guess on the irc also would work
kb9vqf	email usually stays up
kb9vqf	if email is down then I have automated checks that let me know anayway
kb9vqf	*anyway
kb9vqf	can I just use the mail command on your VPS?
kb9vqf	or is that not configured?
MutantTurkey	not configured unfortunately :|
MutantTurkey	I haven't bothered to set anything up, I don't know how complicated it is
kb9vqf	oh
kb9vqf	see nullmailer
MutantTurkey	I have dinner right now, and my girlfriend will be over. hopefully I can hop on tonight
kb9vqf	sure
MutantTurkey	Assume mail command does wokr.
kb9vqf	ok
MutantTurkey	I will get it up and going
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grand_grunt	Hi! :)
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grand_grunt	I think I found a bug: when lauching kolourpaint (from trinity), then opening and editing a file from a sshfs mount, then closing kolourpaint, then umounting sshfs, at next launch kolourpaint stays stalled.
grand_grunt	strace shows that it tries to access the last opened file.
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grand_grunt	also, sshs was "unmounted" an ugly way, bash is also stalled when trying to ls it. But it is less obvious to guess where the trouble comes from when launching kolourpaint.
MutantTurkey	grand_grunt: hey
MutantTurkey	can you file that bug report?
grand_grunt	Yep, sure.
MutantTurkey	that's really easier for us
MutantTurkey	that way we don't loose track of bugs :)
grand_grunt	Was talking here first in case someone would say "corrected in latest version" or "already filled in 4 times"
MutantTurkey	grand_grunt: what version are you running?
MutantTurkey	It might not occur.
MutantTurkey	just file the bug report that way we deal with it :)
MutantTurkey	but i've gotta go! good luck with the bug and thanks for reporting it!
grand_grunt	versions: http://pastebin.com/f18zXNGy
grand_grunt	I must insist that sshfs was in ugly state, thinking twice. But used to it for direct access ("ok, stalled because I broke the ssh session"), not for a bare launching of kolourpaint.
MutantTurkey	once you report it, one of use running the SVN version can check to replicate the error, it might have beenfixed already
grand_grunt	Here it is: http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=488
tbottu	04Bug 488: minor, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, kolourpaint, okular (maybe others) are frozen by defuncted SSHFS mount.
Xu_R	kb9vqf: are you doing nightly builds for squeeze?
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grand_grunt	http://pix.toile-libre.org/upload/original/1311639437.png <= wanted to share this with you :)
grand_grunt	good night, kind developpers.
Xu_R	lol
grand_grunt	BTW, servers for Trinity repository seems to be lagging sometimes. I own two 100Mb/s servers, can do mirrors if this may help. Just query me, will se later. going to sleep.
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Not yet for Squeeze; Natty isn't even fully built yet
Xu_R	kb9vqf: which has nightly builds? because if squeeze doesn't I would like to be able to have one with nightly builds
kb9vqf	Maverick is fully built
kb9vqf	Natty is next (in process)
kb9vqf	then Squeeze, then (maybe) Unstable\
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Check the keyserver please
Xu_R	working here...
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Xu_R	the borg arrives...
kb9vqf	Xu_R: hmm, had someone write and say that it was still down where he was at
Xu_R	kb9vqf: strange. it's working fine here...
kb9vqf	He did this
kb9vqf	apt-key adv --keyserver keyserver.quickbuild.pearsoncomputing.net
kb9vqf	--recv-keys 2B8638D0
kb9vqf	which would work I would think
Xu_R	yea - that's the same command I used
Xu_R	it works here
kb9vqf	hmmm
kb9vqf	I may have to move that function to the other IP address
* kb9vqf does not look forward to that
Xu_R	doesn't sound fun.
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Xu_R	kb9vqf: you said you were doing builds for natty...  mind if I have a link to what you have so far? (because I accidentally installed Natty instead of Maverick)
Xu_R	it'll be a good way for me to test for any strange behavior too.
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kb9vqf	Xu_R: It's not much yet, but here you go....  https://quickbuild.pearsoncomputing.net/~trinity/+archive/trinity-nightly-builds/
kb9vqf	as in, I only have arts and kdelibs in there so far :-P
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MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: I know I said it would get the whole mail thing setup
MutantTurkey	but what was supposed to be a nice night out to dinner with my famiily ended up being a disaster
MutantTurkey	heavy flash flooding caused alot of water in my basment
MutantTurkey	I have been bailing it out with a shop vac most of the night.
MutantTurkey	at this point I am wet, tired and smelling musty
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hazridi	So, I noticed knetworkmanager seems to fail at connecting to an AP using WPA1/AES, while it connects fine to an AP that is advertising WPA2 support
kb9vqf	hazridi: That is a useful bit of information
kb9vqf	Can you please verify that the gnome network manager successfully connects to the WPA1/AES AP?
kb9vqf	if so a bug report may need to be filed against knetworkmanager
hazridi	not gnome, no
hazridi	but cnetworkmanager worked fine
hazridi	(cli network manager client)
hazridi	how hard is it to build trinity components on squeeze? if I can use apt for the source I could take a look at it
kb9vqf	hazridi: It shouldn't be too hard
kb9vqf	use the Maverick repository
kb9vqf	or wait a few weeks for the Squeeze nightly builds to start
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grand_grunt	Would you like a mirror server? What are the requirements?
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raevyn	Hi! My date/time applet I have has suddenly started showing me the timezone I am in, and no longer the date. Does anyone know how to correct that?
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l0ner	hello?
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Space_Man	hi l0ner
l0ner	hi
Space_Man	grand_grunt: kb9vqf controls the master repo, there maybe a mirror somewhere idk
l0ner	problems?
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MTurkey	hello?
l0ner	hi
MTurkey	awesome!  just testing out my phone app for the meeting later.
l0ner	meeting?
Space_Man	l0ner: about 8 hours ago"<grand_grunt> Would you like a mirror server? What are the requirements?"
MTurkey	there is a devel meeting tonight at 1900
Space_Man	there is a meeting later today
l0ner	didn't know
l0ner	nice
Space_Man	"... tonight at 1900" what time zone?
l0ner	Space_Man: i've seen mirror for .deb packages somewhere (university of idaho or smthin), but requires key from kb9vqf server
MTurkey	EST
MTurkey	or Easter Daylight Time (because of daylight savings )
l0ner	and EST is UTC+?
l0ner	right now
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l0ner	i'm asking since i never really understood how EST works...
Space_Man	its like standard time and on the east
Space_Man	:P
l0ner	ok...
l0ner	uh... I'm trying to build trinity from svn sources on my gentoo
l0ner	firstpass: tqtinterface. Error: "Your Qt3 is not patched for compatibility with tqtinterface"...
kb9vqf	build our Qt3 branch first
kb9vqf	and install it
kb9vqf	build sequence is Qt3->tqtinterface->arts->kdelibs->kdebase
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l0ner	ok
l0ner	I installed qt3 from kde-sunset, thought it might work
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l0ner	actually I'm on kde from kde-sunset, and I'm already tired of fighting agains updates to kde 4 ;/
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l0ner	uh. Question: where I can find trinity qt3 branch? Can't find it on svn
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MTurkey	Xu_R: got irc on phone
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Xu_R_	MTurkey: nice
Xu_R_	i was just having server troubles here, but seems to be fixed now
Xu_R	so lemme close that webchat...
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* Xu_R had to upgrade his router to use DD-WRT because there were problems with the old firmware that never got fixed
MTurkey	so router is all ok now?
Xu_R	yea
kb9vqf	l0ner: It is in our GIT tree at http://git.trinitydesktop.org
kb9vqf	under Trinity Desktop Environment->main->dependencies
kb9vqf	you can download a tarball via the link on the bottom of the webgit page
l0ner	ok
l0ner	will look now
l0ner	why etherpad access is under registration now? wasn't something like month ago...
MTurkey	l0ner:we reset the ether
MTurkey	kb9vqf: still have trouble with qt3. building ok though now
kb9vqf	trouble?
MTurkey	packaging function is messy still
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Borg^Queen	hey people wanted let you guys know I can't be here for the meeting, been working 26 hrs straight. I'm off to sleep.
Borg^Queen	Just didn't want you lads and lasses to think you were being ditched.
Borg^Queen	gn to all
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* Strangelv missed the meeting announcement
Strangelv	:: scrolls up and sees something that looks like 18:00 CDT
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l0ner	ok, I can't compile qt3
Space_Man	pastebin the output - last few lines with the error messages
Space_Man	I've never built qt3 or trinity
Space_Man	but somebody here might be able to help
l0ner	error http://pastebin.com/4jswE6wF
l0ner	I don't like using binaries or binary-based distros. They feel bloated
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kb9vqf	l0ner: Pull Qt3 from GIT again and retry your build
kb9vqf	A patch snuck in that should not have been included, as it is Debian specific
l0ner	ok, will report if the build was successful
kb9vqf	ok, if not please verify the hash of your GIT pull, it should be 11b82515f821fbdbdd6b04f3e6695b710d1e70cd
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Please send all the patches you have to me directly
kb9vqf	I will manually put them into Patchwork
kb9vqf	send them as individual attachments
kb9vqf	on one Email message
kb9vqf	your Email program was inserting line breaks into the patch text, which made the patches completely unusable
kb9vqf	I would like to get them in to kdebase BEFORE I do the multi-distro rebuild
Xu_R	kb9vqf: I'll try to ASAP - right now my computer is having problems...
Xu_R	(you can always pull from build.opensuse.org too)
Xu_R	kb9vqf: when are you going to do the multi-distro rebuild?
kb9vqf	working on starting it now...but only up to kdelibs
kb9vqf	I only want the patches that are not already in SVN ;-)
kb9vqf	so if you could pre-filter them for me it would be a great help
Xu_R	I'll try to ASAP.
kb9vqf	OK, thanks :)
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MTurkey	work is slow
eldowan	agreed
MTurkey	yawn
eldowan	15 more minutes...
kb9vqf	?
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l0ner	damn my laptop is overheating
kb9vqf	qt3 compilation can be nasty
kb9vqf	try slowing down your CPU
l0ner	already did
kb9vqf	ohh
kb9vqf	blow out the dust from the CPU fan vent with a high pressure air source ;-)
l0ner	theorically the pcu should slow down by itself
l0ner	did this morning
kb9vqf	up to a point
kb9vqf	what CPU is it?
l0ner	intel i3 m350
kb9vqf	ah
l0ner	but it's samsung laptop
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l0ner	and this is the main problem
kb9vqf	with an undersized fan no doubt
kb9vqf	fan/heatsink
l0ner	yeah
kb9vqf	usually putting the CPU on max power saving will keep it running
kb9vqf	either that or use ctrl+z to suspend the compilation
kb9vqf	then run 'fg' to resume it when the CPU is cool enough
l0ner	and some obscure functions in bios for power management
l0ner	this is what i've been doing
kb9vqf	ah, OK
kb9vqf	I can't help much then :)
l0ner	but i got distracted, temp went up and laptop shut down
kb9vqf	uggh
kb9vqf	you do know we have Qt3 for Maverick and Natty in the nightly builds....
kb9vqf	not sure which distro you are on
l0ner	gentoo
kb9vqf	that won't help then!
l0ner	i tried ubuntu
l0ner	i just can't get over with dependencies, bloatware, and how binary distros forces things on me
l0ner	after you tried one time gentoo, you are long gone
l0ner	you will never return to binary
kb9vqf	well, when you have a fleet of computers to maintain binaries sound quite good ;-)
l0ner	you bet
l0ner	whoah! that was unexpected.
l0ner	I'm beginning to wonder if my cpu reports it's temp right...
l0ner	paused compilation and temp went instantly from 86C to 60C
l0ner	how can I access the trinity eherpad? wanted to take a look on cmake porting status
-Xu_R- Attention: Meeting in #trinity-desktop-meeting at 1900 EDT (that would be 25 minutes from now)
grand_grunt	kb9vqf: Does the trinity project have enough servers with enough bandwidth?
kb9vqf	grand_grunt: so far, as far as I can tell, yes, BUT if you want to be a mirror we'd be glad to have you
kb9vqf	all you need is a server with enough monthly bandwidth to handle file transfers daily
kb9vqf	i.e. no cap
kb9vqf	no monthly transfer cap, and no residential connections
kb9vqf	unless you are lucky enough to have fiber in your area ;-)
l0ner	live in japan and you probably will
-Xu_R- Meeting starting in ~1 minute(s).
grand_grunt	kb9vqf: I have too servers in France, with no cap on bandwidth (France is still a nice country for this)
grand_grunt	If you got a pointer about "How to make a mirror" I would be happy to do one
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	hang on a bit
kb9vqf	in a meeting
l0ner	quiet idea: a mirror of site and pgp keyserver would be nice too, since from what I've seen they have problems sometimes...
grand_grunt	Another idea: some round robin DNS would be also nice
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Xu_R	now to fix this computer. brb
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kb9vqf	grand_grunt: I do have round robin set up for the mirrors
kb9vqf	you can rsync from rsync://rsync.pearsoncomputing.net
kb9vqf	send me the URL when you complete the initial download
kb9vqf	set it to sync every day or so
kb9vqf	(every 24 hours)
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l0ner	ok, i finished compiling qt3
l0ner	but it
l0ner	stays in build dir
l0ner	and don't go to dir included in $QTDIR
* l0ner is going to getsome sleep. Needs to wake up in 7 hours.
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grand_grunt	kb9vqf: Ok, thanks :)
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Strangelv_	Did I completely miss the meeting?
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Xu_R	Strangelv_: yea :(
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MutantTurkey	Xu_R: can you update the meeting page on the wiki once your logs sync?
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: I've been reviewing the links on the main website, i thikn some of them can just go into the devel section of the website.
Xu_R	sure - but feel free to remind me, I might forget
kb9vqf	correct
kb9vqf	just make me a list... :)
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: I think patches, SVN, andRoadmap can go into it.
kb9vqf	yes
kb9vqf	send along those suggestions in the Email :)
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: :) ok!
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: also is that news system I setup working ok?
kb9vqf	yes
kb9vqf	it's great!
MutantTurkey	excellent.
MutantTurkey	I knew it would be, simple and easy!
kb9vqf	when natty nightly builds are done there will be a new new entry...
kb9vqf	*news
MutantTurkey	yep
MutantTurkey	I also am looking into using your quickbuilds for archlinux. In fact it's often quite easy to convert packages to different distros
MutantTurkey	that might save me a lot of trouble, building and packaging wise
kb9vqf	sounds good to me
kb9vqf	if you manage to automate the conversion process let me know
kb9vqf	and I will autogenerate the Arch packages
kb9vqf	with your automated scripts
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: ok that would be cool.
MutantTurkey	you could also just build them regularly.
MutantTurkey	all you need is our package manager installed (not managing, just installed) I think you could just do that.
kb9vqf	what format are your packages?
Xu_R	which makes me wonder - kb9vqf - when we move to git, will we have hooks set up? I can just have the hooks call a rebuild of any packages
kb9vqf	.deb, .rpm?
kb9vqf	yes, hooks will be available
MutantTurkey	pkg.tar.{gz,bzip2,bzip,xz}
kb9vqf	hmm
kb9vqf	ok
Xu_R	great - all I need is an API call to api.o.o.
MutantTurkey	its a custom one :)
kb9vqf	I can't easily do release updates with that as QuickBuild can't understand it, but I can provide nightly / automated builds and let you pick and choose the release package set
kb9vqf	not sure yet
MutantTurkey	right we can talk later.
MutantTurkey	also, could you send me current php page from the website? they are all post-processed so it's not good to use
MutantTurkey	wait... maybe if i just use one that isn't using any formatting it'll be ok.
MutantTurkey	nevermind!
MutantTurkey	Actually, I probably need one emailed to me :P
kb9vqf	I can add the PHP stuff
kb9vqf	headers/footers
kb9vqf	I just need the body :)
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: ok I will send just the body portion
MutantTurkey	also: http://ekaia.org/blog/2011/02/07/post-and-pre-release-fun/
MutantTurkey	that notes that "One of the goals for wheezy is remove completely KDE 3 and Qt 3. "
MutantTurkey	wheezy is debian 7
kb9vqf	nice :-P
kb9vqf	I'll be providing Qt3 anyway
kb9vqf	Qt4 is NOT a replacement for certain workloads
kb9vqf	and I would hate for people to stop using Debian or Linux
kb9vqf	just because Qt4 is a bloated unstable piece of garbage sometimes
MutantTurkey	yes I feel the same way about gtk3 (which is even worse that 2.x...)
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf:other than links, do we need anything else?
kb9vqf	stopped using GTK as soon as the tools became steaming piles of trash
kb9vqf	the graphical dev tools that is
kb9vqf	when the icons in buttons start overlapping on the text with no way to fix it...well....
MutantTurkey	I never have worked with the graphical dev tools (didn't even realized they existed)
MutantTurkey	I am only using them for simple applications anyhow
kb9vqf	A quick description of the development tools and mailing list might be nice, but other than that for now the links alone are OK
kb9vqf	Yes, they exist(ed)
Xu_R	and they're crap
kb9vqf	but rapidly became a mess
MutantTurkey	yeah
MutantTurkey	Xu_R: I actually like gtk for small things.
MutantTurkey	I am neither a qt or gtk guy though
kb9vqf	I use Qt4 for small things
MutantTurkey	I prefer good old ncurses :)
kb9vqf	that are unlikely to grow
Xu_R	:P
kb9vqf	basically only for single-purpose apps that should never be expected to blend in with any DE :)
MutantTurkey	yes
MutantTurkey	should i link to git.trinity or scm.trinity
kb9vqf	git.trinity
MutantTurkey	ok
MutantTurkey	Xu_R: lol did you see the picture at my work today? slowest shift ever.
Xu_R	looking now...
Xu_R	lol nice.
MutantTurkey	finally got my glasses.
MutantTurkey	weird to adjust
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: Xu_R: so far: SVN, git, devel web (wiki), roadmap, etherpad, Nightly builds, mailing list
Xu_R	yup
MutantTurkey	http://mutantturkey.com/contributors.html
MutantTurkey	sorry, the page title and name is wrong, but content?
MutantTurkey	also CSS isn't applied
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HardDisk_WP	hey
HardDisk_WP	i'm one of the LiMux developers of the city of Munich
HardDisk_WP	we're using Trinity 3.5.12 and have a problem
HardDisk_WP	when you right-click on the Home tab of the side bar, the contextmenu opens only if you click on the top ("Home") entry
HardDisk_WP	when you right-click on the subdirectories, nothing happens
HardDisk_WP	the other tabs (bookmarks) are not affected by this problem, right-clicking works there
HardDisk_WP	any idea?
Space_Man	HardDisk_WP: I'm not a Trinity developer, I'm only a user
Space_Man	but I do remember there was some discussion of a bug that affected Konqueror
Space_Man	the mouse right click did not work on the directories in the left hand column
Space_Man	I think it was fixed a few months ago by samellian
Space_Man	look in the git repo :P
Space_Man	or ask on the mailing list
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MutantTurkey	o/
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slackware_user	Hi! is it possible to install trinity on debian sid?
MutantTurkey	slackware_user: not on slackware?
MutantTurkey	:P
MutantTurkey	yes it is possible!
slackware_user	)
slackware_user	where to get build scripts or something?
MutantTurkey	we provided packages
slackware_user	for SID?
MutantTurkey	maybe not
MutantTurkey	isn't sid stable now?
slackware_user	sid always unstable
MutantTurkey	oh :x
slackware_user	so it may be worth to make buildscripts or something
MutantTurkey	maybe try our packages though
MutantTurkey	it may work
MutantTurkey	http://trinitydesktop.org/installation.php
MutantTurkey	there are  squeeze packages
eldowan	it works great on squeeze!
slackware_user	i try to install them now
MutantTurkey	:)
slackware_user	broken packages...
slackware_user	unmet dependencies
slackware_user	is it possible to publish build scripts for debian?
MutantTurkey	yes.
MutantTurkey	well for the scripts, you could ask kb9vqf
kb9vqf	debian build files are in our GIT tree
kb9vqf	but be forewarned we currently have gcc4.6 issues
kb9vqf	these are being solved now
slackware_user	&#1086;&#1082;.
MutantTurkey	:)
slackware_user	scripts are for svn or for releases?
kb9vqf	you might want to use the Ubuntu Maverick build files for now
kb9vqf	they are just the debian directories for each source folder in SVN
kb9vqf	you have to copy the appropriate debian directory to the appropriate SVN source folder
kb9vqf	then run dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
kb9vqf	in each source folder
kb9vqf	this is automated on my systems, but tightly integrated with QuickBuild
kb9vqf	so my scripts would be of no use to you
kb9vqf	but the debian/ folders in GIT are universal
slackware_user	ok. i ll try
slackware_user	what's url of git repo?
kb9vqf	hang on
kb9vqf
kb9vqf	git clone http://scm.trinitydesktop.org/scm/git/tde-packaging
kb9vqf	the debian/* build folder will only work with 3.5.12
slackware_user	thanx
kb9vqf	the ubuntu/maverick/* build folder will only work with SVN
kb9vqf	Just keep that in mind :)
slackware_user	ok. i ll first try to build 3.5.12
kb9vqf	yes, updates are planned, currently in the middle of a Natty build that is draining the build system resources quite badly
kb9vqf	ok
slackware_user	btw how soon can be released 3.6?
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kb9vqf	not sure yet
kb9vqf	we're waiting on bugfixes
kb9vqf	so it really depends on how complex they end up being
slackware_user	ok
kb9vqf	I'd like to see 3.5.13 released in the late fall 2001
kb9vqf	2011 rather
raevyn	Hello. Does anyone know why Pidgen wont run in Trinity?
kb9vqf	probably an issue with the Trinity file picker
slackware_user	btw.. after clone debian folder contains 2 folders which are empty
kb9vqf	yes...hmmm....
kb9vqf	never uploaded Debian to GIT I guess :-/
slackware_user	)
kb9vqf	you can use the ubuntu/maverick_automake folder to build 3.5.12
raevyn	file picker?
raevyn	is there a way to fix it?
kb9vqf	raevyn: Try this
kb9vqf	go to a terminal and run
slackware_user	2 folders with .gitignore
raevyn	k
kb9vqf	LD_PRELOAD= pidgin
kb9vqf	slackware_user: ubuntu/maverick_automake is not empty on my end
raevyn	that works! just typing pidgin gives a segmentation fault
kb9vqf	raevyn: Then there is definitely a problem with the file picker
kb9vqf	any chance you can get a backtrace with GDB and create a bug report?
kb9vqf	so that it can be fixed in 3.5.13?
slackware_user	ubuntu/maverick isnt empty
raevyn	:( Im sorry.. if i was walked through I could
kb9vqf	that's ok
kb9vqf	I can do the same thing eventually
kb9vqf	just create a bug report for now, unless one already exists
kb9vqf	slackware_user: See http://git.trinitydesktop.org/viewgit/index.php?a=tree&p=Trinity%20Desktop%20Environment%20Packaging&h=5b9d7093413631b6975997955bef919545eca795&hb=e9b162a733491b74bd7d56edd9f1314f83a8c571
raevyn	okay
kb9vqf	you must have an incomplete checkout
raevyn	oh it has bugs reported i guess.. though nothing about using ldpreload
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	it's a temporary fix
kb9vqf	it works by disabling the file picker
raevyn	<nod> bummer.. i cant make a menu item for it that way
kb9vqf	sure
kb9vqf	don't worry, I consider this a major/blocker bug
raevyn	oh yay! i like pidgin WAY more than empathy
kb9vqf	:)
kb9vqf	It's not just pidgin
kb9vqf	audacity also crashes
kb9vqf	and a handful of other GTK apps
raevyn	ohh.. is it specific gtk apps?
slackware_user	maybe its due to sound system?
raevyn	i am finding an oddity that maybe is realted?
kb9vqf	it is something with the file picker handling on certain GTK apps
kb9vqf	probably the Trinity file picker does not implement a certain GTK call
kb9vqf	the backtrace should show that quickly
kb9vqf	(working on grabbing one now)
raevyn	Oh.. then it probably isnt. Graphics on GTK apps seems to like.. disapear at times. buttons and menus items until hovered over
kb9vqf	that's probably the Qt3 integration
slackware_user	building qt3 first?
kb9vqf	which is a separate module altogether
kb9vqf	slackware_user: Yes
kb9vqf	do that from our GIT tree
slackware_user	fails at clean...
MutantTurkey	slackware_user: our tree
kb9vqf	the main Qt3 branch is in the main GIT tree under main/dependencies/qt3
kb9vqf	it contains a debian/ folder already
kb9vqf	IIRC
slackware_user	ok ill try
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raevyn	so will the new release still operate and look like ti does now?
MutantTurkey	raevyn: yes
raevyn	what will the new release have? O! will it have touch functionatlity?
kb9vqf	if Xorg supports it....
kb9vqf	but if you want an actual "touch" OS use KDE4
kb9vqf	it's designed for that
kb9vqf	or Windows 8
kb9vqf	Trinity is going to stay a mouse+keyboard driven DE
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kb9vqf	lots of good alternatives for a touch driven DE
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raevyn	ah okay. so the way it looks and runs now will stay, but bugs and such willl be fixed?
slackware_user	libavahi-qt3-dev missing on sid
slackware_user	where to get qt3-trinity for debian ?
kb9vqf	yes
kb9vqf	have to build libavahi-qt3-dev then from source...
slackware_user	are there build scripts for these packages?
kb9vqf	not sure
kb9vqf	look in debian for them
kb9vqf	that is, in the last debian release
kb9vqf	packages.debian.org
slackware_user	it seems that in sid that packsage was moved to repo at debian-ports.org
slackware_user	and there is no package for both amd64 and x86
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calvin	wow
calvin	kb9vqf: I am trying out kde 4.6 for first time
calvin	just with irssi open it is using 600mb ram!
calvin	its terribly slow.
kb9vqf	oh nice~
kb9vqf	:-P
calvin	I will admit it looks very pretty, but its lagging oddly bad.
kb9vqf	looks nice but is unusable for work
kb9vqf	sounds familiar
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MutantTurkey	seems as if its indexing stuff in the backgroun alot.
MutantTurkey	my cpu is spliking randomly
kb9vqf	yes, that's probably nepomuk
MutantTurkey	yes
MutantTurkey	whatever that is.
kb9vqf	something that cannot be turned off as an index is now somehow integral to a desktop environment (!???)
kb9vqf	yuck
MutantTurkey	i never used indexing
kb9vqf	only indexer I used was Google Desktop Search
kb9vqf	which, oddly enough, never ate my CPU or RAM!
MutantTurkey	hurm
kb9vqf	(it is smart enough to know when a user is active)
MutantTurkey	this is terrible.
MutantTurkey	it has a nice feel but even the menus and desktop are unusable.
MutantTurkey	anyway I gotta split. just thought i'd say that.
kb9vqf	nice feel?
kb9vqf	I though feel was influenced by usability ;-0
* Xu_R notes that kde 4.7 was released today
* Xu_R also notes that kdePIM 4.6+ is still largely unusable
* Strangelv_ remembers integrated indexing and search. Ties up CPU and fills up all that pesky unused disk space?
kb9vqf	No no...as the KDE4 devs would say it "Utilizes unused system resources to fulfill a needed function"
kb9vqf	:-P
Xu_R	XD
* kb9vqf wouldn't use Nepomuk if it was the only indexer on the planet
kb9vqf	Fortuantely it isn't, and I think every alternative is better :-P
Xu_R	blehh... and I still can't believe that we need MySQL for a desktop.
kb9vqf	we don't
Xu_R	exactly!
Xu_R	tell the kde4 devs that
kb9vqf	Amarok uses it IIRC, but that is because people have music collections of thousands of tracks these days
Xu_R	which is a good reason
Xu_R	but for the rest of the desktop... sqlite seems so much better to me...
kb9vqf	Amarok can use SQLite too
kb9vqf	in fact I guess it does so by default
kb9vqf	:eek: tornado watch + warnings near my location
kb9vqf	not good
Xu_R	kb9vqf: stay safe
Xu_R	(we have tornado watch and warnings here all the time. they all seem to hit west of my area xD)
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MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: wow.
MutantTurkey	I just got back --- Still  hogging my cpu
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: wow.0~that is ridiculous.
MutantTurkey	Xu_R: actually I don't use Amarok and I still have 15,000+ songs
MutantTurkey	its just called being organized :)
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MutantTurkey	~/music/artist/album/ tada!
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: nice XP
MutantTurkey	I do like plasma widgets :x
MutantTurkey	they are a bit bloaty for my likening, but i do find some useful.
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: what distro are you trying kde4 on?
MutantTurkey	I just like the idea of embedding windows in my desktop - I have actually started implemenations of ideas for that
MutantTurkey	Xu_R: arch.
MutantTurkey	I had mockups for embedding windows in the root window, enver got anywhere.
Xu_R	ah. I've always used kde4 on suse - and for some reason I can run it smoothly on 512 mb, so it got to be less of a problem than I thought
MutantTurkey	I dunno... I have 530 ram usage right now.
MutantTurkey	and only irssi is open
Xu_R	damn.
MutantTurkey	on xfce its like 150mb
Xu_R	so bloated still...
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hazridi	kde4 isnt that bad as of kde 4.6, it's a lot faster than it used to be
hazridi	maybe in 2-3 years it'll be usable :P
K`zan	OPtomist :-)
hazridi	I'd rather use it than gnome... shiver
MutantTurkey	this is terrible.
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K`zan	I'd rather (and do) use gnome before kcrap4
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kb9vqf	Xu_R: Can you see if there is a patch to enable V4L2 support for Kopete?
kb9vqf	in OpenSUSE, or similar distributions?
Xu_R	sure
kb9vqf	I may end up having to backport this http://websvn.kde.org/?view=revision&revision=738522
kb9vqf	and this http://websvn.kde.org/?view=revision&revision=1226213
kb9vqf	and a couple other minor ones
kb9vqf	but I don't want to if I don't have to ;-)
Xu_R	kb9vqf: nope, can't seem to find any D:
kb9vqf	Darn
kb9vqf	Feel up to some backporting?
Xu_R	love to, but not atm - I've got to finish bills while my parents are out-of-town X_X
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	I'll probably have to do it then :-P
Xu_R	are those kde3 patches or kde4?
kb9vqf	those are KDE34 patches
kb9vqf	KDE4
kb9vqf	to relatively low level code
kb9vqf	(meaning there isn't much reliance on Qt0
* kb9vqf can't type
kb9vqf	(meaning there isn't much reliance on Qt)
Xu_R	ah.
kb9vqf	nevermind, there is still support for the V4L1 API available
kb9vqf	:)
kb9vqf	Why anyone needs V4L2 features for a webcam is beyond me!
Xu_R	XD
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Z_God	kb9vqf: I haven't seen any installation instructions yet for a fresh install of Trinity on Natty, would that still be useful? I could provide them if so, it's almost the same as installing fresh on Maverick.
kb9vqf	I'm actually building Natty packages now, so you might want to wait a bit and make sure your instructions work with the new packages
kb9vqf	I can let you know when they are available for testing
Z_God	cool :)
Z_God	actually I just installed the maverick packages, but I also had to add the maverick universe and maverick-updates main repository to get all the dependencies satisfied
kb9vqf	ok
Z_God	I also wonder if you are considering a 3.5.12 release for ubuntu lucid
kb9vqf	not sure yet
Z_God	most of the systems and people I support run Ubuntu Lucid with Trinity, so it would have a big impact for me ;)
kb9vqf	gotcha
kb9vqf	I'll see how practical that is
Z_God	ok, what kind of problems could be there?
Z_God	the current systems are quite stable though
Z_God	especially when people use only trinity (which is almost always)
kb9vqf	basically old/outdated libraries
kb9vqf	hopefully that won't be too much of an issue
Z_God	ok
kb9vqf	then there is the fact that builds take a few days of computer cluster time
kb9vqf	which uses a lot of $$$$ worth of power
kb9vqf	:)
kb9vqf	(by bulids I mean new builds for a new distribution)
kb9vqf	basically a full rebuild
Z_God	ok, an incremental upgrade doesn't make sense?
kb9vqf	You can't just do an incremental build
Z_God	I remember in the olden days some distros would only update kdelibs for example and then later some packages
kb9vqf	To add 3.5.12 or 3.5.13 to a distribution you need a full rebuild
Z_God	I'd have konqueror 2.2.1 on kde 2.2.2 for a while
Z_God	ok
kb9vqf	it's not good practice
kb9vqf	it can itroduce many subtle bugs
kb9vqf	*introduce
kb9vqf	especially if compiler versions have changed
kb9vqf	(which they have under Ubuntu post-release)
Z_God	significantly?
kb9vqf	even a minor version bump can cause problems
kb9vqf	as I said subtle and hard to trace problems :)
Z_God	I'd say that's a bug in the compiler though...
kb9vqf	not really
Z_God	but yeah I can imagine you'd rather do a full recompile then
kb9vqf	compatibility is not guaranteed across compiler versions
kb9vqf	not to mention if kdelibs has one class change, the entire suite must be rebuilt
kb9vqf	we have a more agressive change policy on Trinity than on KDE3
kb9vqf	to make sure that the desktop stays up to date
Z_God	I don't fully understand why it wouldn't be ABI compatible, but I know very little about this
kb9vqf	(not for user visible elements, just for backend stuff)
kb9vqf	In 99% of cases there would be no problem
kb9vqf	but then I get bugs reported for the other 1%
kb9vqf	and they are very hard to trace
kb9vqf	Better safe than sorry IMO
Z_God	yep, I understand
Z_God	do you know what would be needed for the bluetooth support btw?
Z_God	I'm running blueman now in trinity which does a pretty much perfect job
kb9vqf	great
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kb9vqf	!seen MutantTurkey
tbottu	kb9vqf: MutantTurkey was last seen in #trinity-desktop 2 days, 20 hours, 22 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <MutantTurkey> this is terrible.
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kb9vqf	Airplane crash in Aurora disabled Internet connection for around 8 hours Sunday (07/31/2011); all services are now back online
Xu_R	kb9vqf: wait, airplane crash? o_o so it went into the power and internet lines?
kb9vqf	yep
kb9vqf	complete mess
Xu_R	my god...
* Xu_R looks up the news
kb9vqf	not too many pictures available
kb9vqf	but one showed cables on the ground everywhere
* kb9vqf notes that his luck this year is just despicable
Xu_R	xD
Xu_R	oh, this has it: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-experimental-airplane-crashes-near-aurora-airport-pilot-killed-20110731,0,816843.story
kb9vqf	yep
kb9vqf	that's it
kb9vqf	although the ISP metioned that the fiber lines were cut as well
kb9vqf	in addition to the power
Xu_R	:-\
* kb9vqf wonders what's next...a hurricane?
Xu_R	I would hope not that far north o_o
kb9vqf	maybe 5 inches of ice :)
Xu_R	more likely XD
kb9vqf	any progress on fixing bugs?
kb9vqf	there are a number of gcc4.6 fixes in SVN now, so you shouldn't have very many build problems
Xu_R	I downloaded another copy of maverick
Xu_R	so i'm going to re-put trinity back on there
Xu_R	since natty builds aren't finished yet
Xu_R	I also started re-doing the spec files for opensuse
Xu_R	(haven't pushed them to git yet(
Xu_R	*)
Xu_R	man, they really overpatched kde 3.5.10 o_o
kb9vqf	same with Qt3
kb9vqf	both were long overdue for a new release
Xu_R	yea.
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Xu_R	kb9vqf: there's no sudo-trinity for maverick?
Xu_R	(ps - in nightly builds)
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Piki	hi
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Piki	i see tbottu is a little power hungry :-)
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destroyfx	For the Etherpad, it's admin validation for the registration?
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mutantturkey	o/
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kb9vqf	destroyfx: Did you attempt to register?
kb9vqf	recently?
destroyfx	yes, today
kb9vqf	OK, I will approve the registration
kb9vqf	we have to be careful of spammers
destroyfx	ah, ok :)
destroyfx	thanks!
kb9vqf	np
kb9vqf	email sent
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mutantturkey	kb9vqf: did you import the qt3 patch you reported as a bug in the tracker?
kb9vqf	bug number?
mutantturkey	bug 484
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=484 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Qt3 needs patching to build under ARM
* kb9vqf goes to check
kb9vqf	mutantturkey: Yes
mutantturkey	okay Ill mark as fixed
Xu_R	kb9vqf: question - do you have a working sudo-trinity for maverick in nightly builds?
kb9vqf	did you check the build dependencies PPA?
Xu_R	yup
Xu_R	I only have a sudo-kde3
kb9vqf	ohh...oops :)
kb9vqf	I'll correct that as soon as I can
kb9vqf	the build farm's a bit busy right now chewing on koffice
Xu_R	ok :P I can't install my nightly build on maverick until I have that XP
Xu_R	ewww, koffice
mutantturkey	LibreOffice just released 3.4.2
kb9vqf	odd; it let me install kdelbs/kdebase without it
Xu_R	kb9vqf: I know... it's all installable w/o sudo-trinity >_>
Xu_R	only ran into that when I tried to install kdpkg-trinity, which wants sudo-trinity
kb9vqf	yes, that makes sense
kb9vqf	poke me tomorrow about it :)
kb9vqf	too busy today
Xu_R	ok
kb9vqf	I can't believe how many "programmers" thought code was OK that now throws this
kb9vqf	error:   for a function-style cast, remove the redundant '::QPen'
kb9vqf	:-P
mutantturkey	kb9vqf: low quality control, thats how they release so fast.
kb9vqf	it would never occur to me to write code like this TQString::TQString("Hi!")
kb9vqf	oh well
mutantturkey	and release cylces are speeding up.
kb9vqf	so that's the excuse for Windows 8? :-)
mutantturkey	KDE3 was in functionality for quite a while. KDE4 is already at 4.8... 5 is in planning stages
kb9vqf	and it's still a bloated unusable pile of garbage
kb9vqf	nice
mutantturkey	or at least qt5 is in planning by nokia
mutantturkey	yeah basically.
mutantturkey	honestly, I think windows is doing some good with 8.
mutantturkey	It is at least standardizing and forcing them to use open technologies
Xu_R	have you seen Meego?
mutantturkey	because then all windows apps will run on all platforms
kb9vqf	inferior tech nonetheless
kb9vqf	even if it is open
mutantturkey	kb9vqf: obviously. but either way  Idon't use windows
kb9vqf	:)
Xu_R	people say everything is good if it's open-source. it's not good if it's open-source + crap :P
mutantturkey	Xu_R: but the open source model is superioir
mutantturkey	to the closed source
mutantturkey	in most cases.
kb9vqf	KDE4 is proving you wrong
kb9vqf	;)
Xu_R	true - but the quality of the software is something to think about XD
mutantturkey	kb9vqf: now imagine if KDE4 was closed source. it would be 50x worse
kb9vqf	yes, I know, I know
kb9vqf	it seems that the worst traits of both models are on display lately
Xu_R	I wish Nokia didn't scrap Meego for Windows Phone... >_>
kb9vqf	I know
Xu_R	because people hate Windows Phone but love Meego
Xu_R	and yet it's dead on arrival to stores
mutantturkey	I like the windows phone...
mutantturkey	The interface is actually clean and intuitive.
mutantturkey	compared to apple and android
mutantturkey	I really need a clean interface, and a really well integrated one (which is one thing i hate about linux...)
kb9vqf	evil thought...M$ probably thinks that the desktop is disappearing and they want to write their apps once and have them work on both the software-as-a-service Web stuff and their "desktop OS"
Xu_R	xD
kb9vqf	hence the emphasis on web technologies
Xu_R	desktop OS... there's no way I'm moving to windows 8
* kb9vqf will never EVER rent space on other people's mainframes
kb9vqf	too great a liklihood the other party makes your vital data inacecssable at some point
mutantturkey	i dont trust the cloud.
kb9vqf	s/mainframes/software-as-a-service cloud/g ;)
kb9vqf	this is all old tech
kb9vqf	old ideas
mutantturkey	anyway
kb9vqf	back on topic? ;-)
Xu_R	maybe ;P
mutantturkey	back on topic? I am really annoyed with the fact that I can't get kde3 working and I don't have time to work on it. I am debating about installing debian in a chroot just to work with it
kb9vqf	Xu_R: How are your spec files coming
kb9vqf	mutantturkey: Which distribution do you use?
Xu_R	kb9vqf: working on it, may run builds locally soon, but not right this second. still a mess xP
mutantturkey	Arch...
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	understandable
mutantturkey	I don't want to compromise either way.
mutantturkey	i want arch + trinity. :P
mutantturkey	wish david was still around. He actually understands building on arch
kb9vqf	try the mailing list
kb9vqf	sometimes people take breaks
kb9vqf	it's healthy to do so :)
mutantturkey	good thinking
mutantturkey	I need to take a good stab at it.
mutantturkey	I am hoping a night this week I can sit down with a few hours and work
destroyfx	I'm thinking about making Trinity ebuild for Funtoo and Gentoo
mutantturkey	destroyfx: that would be sweet
Xu_R	samelian was working on that with kde-sunset, I think?
mutantturkey	we have a trinity packaging repo
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mutantturkey	destroyfx: git clone http://scm.trinitydesktop.org/scm/git/tde-packaging if you are intrested
mutantturkey	I don't think we have any for gentoo now. so someone working on it would be cool
destroyfx	what tde-packaging?
mutantturkey	it's where we keep all our build scripts for distros
kb9vqf	it contains all distribution-specific packaging files, ready to be copied into the vanilla Trinity source
destroyfx	For kde-sunset, I hear that the ebuild was planed but are actually canceled. Only KDE 3.5.10 are present
kb9vqf	yes, they suggested using a new ebuild
destroyfx	ah, ok :p I will chack that this evening
destroyfx	I just made some patch for KDE 3.5.10 in kde-submit... Because of some ::Stupid(error) preventing some packages to compile in GCC 4.5
kb9vqf	there are a number of gcc4.5/gcc4.6 fixes in the Trinity SVN
kb9vqf	http://www.trinitydesktop.org/patches/
destroyfx	yeah, I read that. But I will need to make a ton of ebuilds first prior to use
kb9vqf	sure
kb9vqf	just wanted to let you know they were there
kb9vqf	:)
jumpship	Is anyone using Debian Squeeze with trinity and have KDE4 installed to use some of the KDE4 programs?
kb9vqf	I have some experience with KDE4 installed alongside Trinity under Ubuntu
jumpship	I don't wanna break trinity, so I've been trying to hold off with some programs, is the stable pkgs of trinity pretty safe with KDE4 alongside?
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mutantturkey	kb9vqf: I see a commit revision (r1242480) saying that everything has been completely moved to .trinity and /etc/trinity?
kb9vqf	yep
kb9vqf	the old kde3 prefix is now dropped
kb9vqf	otherwise it's just too confusing
kb9vqf	depending on which distribution you use it could be ~/.kde, ~/.kde3, or ~/.trinity
kb9vqf	a simple 'mv ~/.kde3 ~/.trinity' will work
kb9vqf	I will probably have to detect the .kde3 directory for a while still
kb9vqf	in startkde
kb9vqf	but all new installs will put the profile in ~/.trinity
mutantturkey	maybe a migration script
mutantturkey	when 3.5.13 is released
kb9vqf	probably
mutantturkey	might be easier to leave it up to users
kb9vqf	yes
mutantturkey	so what about bugs like 459?
kb9vqf	Trinity still obeys KDEHOME
kb9vqf	bug 459?
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=459 blocker, P1, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Detecting $KDEHOME to avoid conflicts with KDE3 and KDE4
kb9vqf	ah
mutantturkey	does KDE4 use $KDEHOME also?
kb9vqf	yes
kb9vqf	I thought that bug was fixed
kb9vqf	hmmm
mutantturkey	It might be, I was just browsing
kb9vqf	startkde should search in this order: ~/.trinity, ~/.kde3, ~/.kde
kb9vqf	and should only create ~/.trinity
mutantturkey	so what about this situation:
kb9vqf	in fact, IMHO, it shouldn't even look for ~/.kde
mutantturkey	someone has kde4 previously, so .kde is there , then they install trinity, then what?
kb9vqf	see above :)
mutantturkey	but they don't have .trinity on first run.
kb9vqf	right
kb9vqf	startkde should search in this order: ~/.trinity, ~/.kde3
kb9vqf	and ignore ~/.kde
mutantturkey	Agreed.
kb9vqf	if ~/.trinity and ~/.kde3 don't exist then it should create ~/.trinity
kb9vqf	s/and/or/g
mutantturkey	that sounds valid
mutantturkey	eventually.. very distant future drop .kde3
kb9vqf	right
kb9vqf	but at this point NEVER EVER create a ~/.kde3 directory :)
kb9vqf	I haven't looked in startkde recently
kb9vqf	so I don't know how much of that logic is already in place
kb9vqf	I know some of it is
kb9vqf	but not all of it
mutantturkey	okay
mutantturkey	should I mark that bug with anything?
kb9vqf	it must block KDE 3.5.13
kb9vqf	and you might want to append the logic described above
kb9vqf	regarding searching
kb9vqf	Oh, this is fun: on Natty, how do you like this library path location: /lib/i386-linux-gnu/libdbus-1.so
kb9vqf	ick ick ick
mutantturkey	why!
mutantturkey	thats terrible
mutantturkey	ubuntu is moving farther away from linux every release.
mutantturkey	and is completely devoid of the unix philosophy
kb9vqf	I have no idea
kb9vqf	All I can say is YUCK
kb9vqf	that's even worse than the lib/ vs lib64/ stuff
kb9vqf	fortunately it only broke k9copy
kb9vqf	and I think I fixed that
Xu_R	o_o
mutantturkey	i know.
mutantturkey	well /lib32/ i am okay with.
mutantturkey	because Arch has a really simple way to setup 32bit on 64bit machines
kb9vqf	yes, but there should still be a symlink from /lib to /lib32 then
kb9vqf	or /lib64 depending on the machine architecture
mutantturkey	it's just an extra repo, and that's it.
mutantturkey	kb9vqf: yep
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mutantturkey	kb9vqf: funny enough he just posted on the arch ml about trinity
mutantturkey	David that is
kb9vqf	only good things I hope? ;-)
mutantturkey	just some package error conflict, easily resolved
mutantturkey	i took it as an opportunity to email him
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mutantturkey	kb9vqf: heading out. I am looking at some bugs tonight. might be on later.
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* Strangelv__ wonders if someone could get away with filing a bug report for /lib/i386-linux-gnu/
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destroyfx	it's okay if I repackage all the file in .bz2 format and if I put the correct directory name. exemple, when I unpack kdelibs-3.5.12.tar.gz, I must get the kdelibs-3.5.12 folder instead of a plain kdelibs folder
destroyfx	I can mirror them too (all your packages plus those I will make)
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raevyn	Hai :) Im using the shell to start Pidgin but everytime I close it, Pidgin closes as well. Is there some way to like, start it and then let me  close the shell without losing pidgin?
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Space_Man	I think you can add && after pidgin
Space_Man	pidgin &&
kb9vqf	pidgin &
kb9vqf	exit
kb9vqf	also, there is a fix in SVN for this...if you are feeling adventurous you can install the nightly builds for Maverick or Natty....
raevyn	thank you!
kb9vqf	np
raevyn	oh i might.. i was going to ask, when i loaded kde 3 on my machine, i already loaded kde 4 and now, my menu is goofy. is there a way to reset my menu?
kb9vqf	menu is goofy?
kb9vqf	how so?
kb9vqf	screenshots may help here :)
raevyn	okay well, if i log in as another user, the menu will show what app is kde 3 and kde 4, such as the control panel. but in mine it doesnt so some items start with the kde4 interface rather than 3
raevyn	oh okay.. i will try to get screenshots tonight for you :)
raevyn	Im at work right now so I can chat but not really do anything too intensive
raevyn	How would i install the build? Im not super savvy in linux yet so I used your instructions to get it on Ubuntu 10.10.
* Xu_R nudges at kb9vqf for missing sudo-trinity in the nightlys
kb9vqf	Xu_R: It was uploaded last night to the nightly build dependencies
Xu_R	ok - checking now
kb9vqf	raevyn: First I would back up your machine ;-)
kb9vqf	Then you can swap out the nightly build repository deb and deb-src lines in your /etc/apt/sources.list file
kb9vqf	hmmm...on second thought, there are missing metapackages in that repository ATM
kb9vqf	so you can't really upgrade
raevyn	:) always good practice.
raevyn	oh.. well then.. i guess i will wait :P
kb9vqf	sorry
kb9vqf	new installs are OK
kb9vqf	upgrades need metapackages that are not yet uploaded
* kb9vqf forgot about that since he installed Trinity from scratch on his development machines
* Xu_R is about to do the kde3 -> trinity deadly upgrade from stable -> nightly XD
Xu_R	kb9vqf: I don't see sudo-trinity still D:
raevyn	is that disc that is made with trinity Ubuntu, just no gnome? I would like to have the hardware checking and easy software installation of ubuntu but use TDE is all
Xu_R	strange. I see it right on mirror.tokra.lv...
Xu_R	well... that's strange.
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kb9vqf	Xu_R: Mirrors may not have synced yet
kb9vqf	they are on a 24 hour cycle
kb9vqf	so I would wait until tomorrow
Xu_R	kb9vqf: I just downloaded sudo-trinity from the mirror, it's just not in the repo meta yet...
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kb9vqf	be careful...some of those pacakges are for Debian....
kb9vqf	*packages
Xu_R	ah, true.
* Xu_R forgot that you built for debian way back before .-."
kb9vqf	and will build for Debian again...
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MutantTurkey	Xu_R: what's up man
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Xu_R	hey MutantTurkey
Xu_R	ah, damnit. lost him by a few minutes
Xu_R	kb9vqf: I see a sudo-trinity for maverick! :D
kb9vqf	ah, good :)
Xu_R	looks like the repo meta is also refreshd
kb9vqf	so now I should see some bugfixes soon? ;-)
Xu_R	*refreshed
Xu_R	indeed
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Xu_R|ZNC	kb9vqf: before I head out for tennis: I see a python-dcop and python-kde3 fof kde3, but not for trinity...
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kb9vqf	not surprised...those packages are a mess and it may take some time before I build them
Xu_R	ah, ok
kb9vqf	they are also not needed for 99% of Trinity apps
Xu_R	ok
* kb9vqf is NOT a Python guru and is seriously considering dropping them from the Ubuntu builds if they don't work out of the box
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Xu_R	back from tennis - downpour started as soon as I got to the courts >_>
Xu_R	kb9vqf: a lot of packages are missing from the mirrors o_o
kb9vqf	?
kb9vqf	like what?
Xu_R	kdm, ksplash, kdebase, etc
Xu_R	they're not on mirror.tokra.lv or associated >_> so apt-get is failing to download them D:
kb9vqf	ah, ok
kb9vqf	every night my ISP has been severing the connection
Xu_R	ah... that's probably why...
kb9vqf	so it is very probable that the files were not transferred yet
Xu_R	quite a few: http://slexy.org/view/s20dcKvDfP
kb9vqf	on the plus side the weather should be quiet for a while here, which should aid in keeping the connection up
Xu_R	that's good :D
kb9vqf	I'm not going to do anything about it (because I can't)
kb9vqf	but if you are still having problems in a day or two please let me know\
Xu_R	ok
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Xu_R	blehh... I had to install xfce4 to remove kde3 and install trinity... >_>
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Xu_R	and kdm seems to be stalling after logout... and rejecting upstart restart/stop/start/etc requests....
Xu_R	(fking upstart... it's not even maintained anymore)
Xu_R	kdm session menu shows KDE3 instead of trinity...
Xu_R	looks like kdesudo for trinity isn't right...
Xu_R	kdm's theme isn't made properly...
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Xu_R	kb9vqf: I got the nightly installed
Xu_R	:D
Xu_R	and am already having difficulties... :-\
Xu_R	kb9vqf: http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/8
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Not surprised; this is not release quality software yet!
kb9vqf	in particular I know that the default themes are not available
kb9vqf	they have not been uploaded yet
Xu_R	figured that most of this was expected :P
kb9vqf	also, DO NOT TRY TO UPGRADE A SYSTEM THAT HAS ANY *-kde3 packages INSTALLED ON IT
kb9vqf	install from a clean Maverick/Natty installation ONLY
kb9vqf	metapackages will be available to migrate from the -kde3 package suffix as the release date nears
kb9vqf	but not yet :)
Xu_R	kb9vqf: bit too late, I did the upgrade... :-\
kb9vqf	well, now I don't know where your problems are coming from :-\
Xu_R	D:
kb9vqf	could be the code, could be old -kde3 packages
kb9vqf	you will have to manually purge all -kde3 packages
Xu_R	oh, I already purged all the -kde3 packages
kb9vqf	the kdesudo thing sounds irritating
Xu_R	it is D:
kb9vqf	knetworkmanager sounds like a kde3/trinity change
kb9vqf	that is, it broke in the move from .kde3 and /etc/kde3 to .trinity and //etc/trinity
kb9vqf	why is networkmanager upstream missing VPN support???
Xu_R	it probably is... but mind you, for some reason the -trinity packages are still using my .kde3 settings
Xu_R	no, i'm saying knetworkmanager is not working with the VPN support
Xu_R	(did I mistype that? O_O)
kb9vqf	yes
Xu_R	yikes
Xu_R	lemme fix that
Xu_R	there...
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	anything else to add to the list of bad news?
Xu_R	not really, which is a good thing. i'm firing up a clean install to see if I get the same stuff
kb9vqf	also any work that you can do to track down the cause of those problems is greatly appreciated :)
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	sounds good
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Profile directory name (~/.trinity) fixes are in SVN revision 1244723.
kb9vqf	you can directly patcth the /opt/trinity/bin/startkde file if you don't want to wait for the nightly builds
Xu_R	ok
kb9vqf	let me know if it works properly please :)
Xu_R	sure
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MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: Xu_R: running a chroot of debian in my arch
MutantTurkey	going okay so far
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Xu_R	oh grrr.... I just realized
Xu_R	there's absolutely no polkit dialog when using trinity
Xu_R	so apps that depend on polkit
Xu_R	just... fail.
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Necrosporus	What's about trinity for Slackware 13.37?
kb9vqf	ask on the trinity-devel mailing list
kb9vqf	I don't handle Slackware
kb9vqf	but the person who does is on the list
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Necrosporus	Well, so I will probably have to compile it myself. I doubt, however, if it worth it
Necrosporus	Xfce works
Necrosporus	And I'm not sure, if KDE4 is still not as good as 3.5
Necrosporus	There was a security bugs in Konqueror, is it fixed in Trinity?
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Strangelv__	"Have the bug reports been enterede into TDE's bug tracker?
Necrosporus	I do not know, I just read, there was a vulnerability of SSL certificate checking if it contain null symbols
Necrosporus	It was discovered after release of 3.5.10, if I remember it correctly
TokRa	IMHO, KDE4 is good enough except Plasma and its sick addiction to mysql based akonadi
* TokRa uses Gnome2 as DE, KDE3.Kmail and KDE3.Kate for mails and code editing, KDE4.Konqueror as file manager
TokRa	Gnome is not customisable enough :(
kb9vqf	we have many CVE updates from after 3.5.10 in our codebase
kb9vqf	as long as it was patched on at least one major distro (such as RedHat) we likely have the patches already in place
kb9vqf	a link to the CVE or upstream bug always helps ;-)
kb9vqf	also, if xfce is powerful enough for you, stick with it
kb9vqf	Trinity is here for those who find xfce too limiting
kb9vqf	KDE4 too bloated
kb9vqf	and Gnome 3 too limited
kb9vqf	:)
kb9vqf	that should be 'and Gnome 3 too childish'
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Necrosporus	Well, I seem to use mostly terminal, firefox and some games
Necrosporus	What' s about Gnome 2 and Unity?
Necrosporus	I have used KDE 3.5.9 for a year, because of Slackware 12.1, however, times changed, I bought a netbook, and installed ubuntu 10.04 on it
Necrosporus	So, I stick mostly with gnome2, at first I found it too limited of configuration, but adapted somehow later
TokRa	Unity is especially designed for kids and mentally challenged adults
TokRa	IMHO
TokRa	completely unusable
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Necrosporus	Does Gnome3 differ much?
Necrosporus	I have tried it from livecd, haven't found many difference
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TokRa	It does
Necrosporus	What's the main difference, beside, the side panel is visible only in menu mode?
aalecs	gnome sucks. the only thing good in gnome is gdm
Revan199	gedit? file-roller?
Revan199	brasero?
aalecs	xarchiver, mucommander, xfburn..
Revan199	gedit not a FM
Revan199	it is a text editor
aalecs	geany then
aalecs	i know what gedit is
Space_Man	gparted?
Revan199	gedit is better for text than Geany, of course
aalecs	uh, that is ok, but we also have qtparted
Revan199	it is a really good text editor
aalecs	Revan199: if you tweak geany, it has a lot of good stuff
Revan199	aalecs: I don't need an IDE then I edit a plain text
aalecs	Revan199: leafpad then.
Revan199	and I don't need to not use gedit
Revan199	aalecs: gedit better %)
Space_Man	sadly qtparted is not available for kubuntu 9.10
aalecs	Space_Man: pack it then. build your own deb
aalecs	Revan199: mousepad then :D
Revan199	aalecs: ?
Space_Man	hopefully in the next day or two I will be updating to something a bit newer
aalecs	sincerily, the best de are xfce and kde
aalecs	gnome is a sucko..
aalecs	Revan199: mousepad is the text editor in xfce
Revan199	aalecs: but that don't mean that every program in GNOME sucks?
aalecs	nope, not all programs. but as a de gnome sucks :D and i just hate the fact that all the dumbasses started using linux, and distros like fedora...
aalecs	where has lfs gone
aalecs	debian netinstall.. slack.. where
Revan199	my debootstrap'd ubuntu don't have DE
aalecs	cool. why did u choose ubuntu and not debian ?
Revan199	aalecs: I'm switched FROM debian to ubuntu :-D
aalecs	ok, but why ?
Revan199	PPA?
aalecs	i'm on altlinux here
aalecs	but also use debian and centos
Revan199	ALTLinux? why not Agilia?
Revan199	AgiliaLinux is a nice distro =)
Revan199	but I don't think that ALT is nice too
aalecs	well, i'm on alt since 2004
aalecs	better said, i`m on alt since it was a mdk fork
Revan199	well, my first distro is... Debian
aalecs	my first was rh 6.0
Revan199	heh
aalecs	and after that slack, mdk and a lot others
aalecs	but mainly alt now
aalecs	and debian/others as virtual stuff, vbox, xen, openvz
Revan199	when I tried ALT I thought that it is a big pack of crap
aalecs	why ?
Revan199	aalecs: whell... I don't remember why (my memory... %))
aalecs	well, i don't think it's crap
aalecs	:)
Revan199	=)
Revan199	I remember that updating from 4 to 5 removed all files
aalecs	ure joking :))
Revan199	xarchiver not better than file-roller %)
Revan199	aalecs: no
Revan199	I don't
aalecs	file-roller is good. xarchiver is ok.
aalecs	peazip works too.
Revan199	peazip just works, but it doesn't work good
TokRa	Linus Torvalds to fork Gnome2: https://plus.google.com/106327083461132854143/posts/SbnL3KaVRtM
Revan199	TokRa: he is funny yea
TokRa	Timothy has forked KDE3, so why Linus couldn't do the same thing with Gnome2? :D
Revan199	TokRa: he don't know how to use google but wrote a post in plus.google.com
* TokRa doesn't use social networks at all
Revan199	because if he can use google he can googled http://matsusoft.com.ar/redmine/projects/mate
aalecs	eh. gnome sucks. and qmail sucks too.
Revan199	aalecs: who is qmail?
aalecs	google it
Revan199	%)
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Necrosporus	Gedit is not good
Necrosporus	kwrite is much better
TokRa	kate is godlike anyway
TokRa	^_^
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kb9vqf	equipment swap in progress...service should be restored by 3:30PM CDT
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Xu_R	kb9vqf: Just realized - there's no native polkit dialog for trinity...
Xu_R	so if I launched an application that needed polkit, it would fail because of no native dialog D:
kb9vqf	polkit?
Xu_R	polkit = PolicyKit
Xu_R	(example - Ubuntu Software Center)
kb9vqf	hmmm...for now I would just install some other policykit dialog
kb9vqf	e.g. the gnome one
kb9vqf	since Trinity doesn't use policykit at all
Xu_R	I have the GNOME one, however polkit refuses to invoke it on Trinity
Xu_R	I put XFCE on the same VM to see - polkit works there, so I'm not sure why polkit is refusing
kb9vqf	do you get any console messages?
* kb9vqf notes that the Qt3 version of a policykit dialog is here https://gitorious.org/policykit-kde
kb9vqf	Qt4 rather
Xu_R	hmm
Xu_R	console messages:
Xu_R	damnit, i didn't install vbox additions
Xu_R	going to have to type it up
Xu_R	softwarecenter.backend - WARNING - _on_trans_error: org.freedesktop.PolicyKit.Error.Failed: ('system-bus-name', {'name':  ':1.32'}): org.debian.apt.install-or-remove-packages
* kb9vqf is guessing that the daemon that monitors DBUS doesn't start automaticallly under Trinity
kb9vqf	that is a stupid design IMHO
Xu_R	polkit is stupid because not everyone uses it >_> so in the end, it's  another flaw
kb9vqf	let's see...we'll just have YET ANOTHER BACKGROUND PROCESS running 24/7 in case someone wants to...launch with administrative privileges???
kb9vqf	:-P
Xu_R	XD
Xu_R	ughhh
Xu_R	update-manager
Xu_R	it now uses polkit
Xu_R	and guess what? it just fails silently (not even console messages)
kb9vqf	see if you can find the process under XFCE
* kb9vqf needs to restart something; be back in a few minutes
Xu_R	ok
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Xu_R	kb9vqf: oh, good lord. there's policykit-1-gnome and polkit-kde-1 that handle the dialogs
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kb9vqf	ok, I'm back
Xu_R	kb9vqf: oh, good lord. there's policykit-1-gnome and polkit-kde-1 that handle the dialogs... According to the description: 'PolicyKit-gnome provies a D-Bus session bus service that is used to bring up authentication dialogs used for obtaining privileges.'
kb9vqf	all services should be up
kb9vqf	yep
kb9vqf	isn't it stupid?
Xu_R	sigh.
kb9vqf	what in the world was wrong with sudo?
Xu_R	nothing, which makes this even more crazy
kb9vqf	Ubuntu only?
Xu_R	because sudo can do the same exact thing with fine-grained privileges
ar	kb9vqf: nothing, except it's not flexible
Xu_R	uhh... probably not just Ubuntu
kb9vqf	so polkit is actually better?
Xu_R	depends how you look at it
* kb9vqf doesn't like things running in the background
Xu_R	I see polkit and sudo the same in the end, just polkit is fancier -_-"
ar	kb9vqf: you either give a user "user ALL=(ALL) ALL" or end up with dozens of sudoers rules
kb9vqf	right...
kb9vqf	does polkit have a configuration GUI?
Xu_R	debian, fedora, and probably some other distributions will run into these polkit problems, AFAIK because they use tools with polkit now
Xu_R	uhhh... polkit gui? used to be, I dunno now
ar	and afair the point of polkit was that only a part of an app could get elevated privileges, which isn't the case with sudo
Xu_R	ar: makes me wonder what happened with gksu-polkit development
kb9vqf	part of an app?
kb9vqf	now that seems just ridiculous to me
Xu_R	kb9vqf: it's like running synaptic not as root
kb9vqf	now we have who knows how many dangling security holes resulting from slicing off part of an app
Xu_R	but then when you hit apply it asks for root permissions to do just that
kb9vqf	so it is more of a temporal elevation?
Xu_R	yes
kb9vqf	that is the entire app gets root access for a small amount of time
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	that makes more sense
kb9vqf	personally I say use some other GUI frontend to polkit
kb9vqf	there is no need to have the Trinity widget styles
kb9vqf	for a stupid password box :)
Xu_R	xD except that stupid password box won't launch under trinity
Xu_R	>_>
kb9vqf	of course
kb9vqf	the question is why
kb9vqf	and whose problem is it?
kb9vqf	ours?
kb9vqf	or is polkit detecting KDE3 and not launching?
Xu_R	I think polkit is detecting KDE3 and not launching...
kb9vqf	then that's not our problem
kb9vqf	:-P
kb9vqf	next question: can it be fooled into thinking it is running under Gnome/XFCE/etc
Xu_R	I don't know...
kb9vqf	feel like figuring that out for me? :)
* Xu_R goes to google
kb9vqf	hehe
kb9vqf	the odd thing is that it worked under Maverick
kb9vqf	I got the ugly Gnome popup when I lauched Synaptic
Xu_R	Synaptic doesn't use polkit
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Dexter_F	heya
Xu_R	hey, look what I found! /usr/libexec/polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1
Dexter_F	I need kaffeine-kde3 only on one box that does not have/need trinity and runs debian wheezy - I guess there are no precompiled packages for that?
Xu_R	for wheezy? not right now D:
Xu_R	kb9vqf: the auth agent for gnome isn't running under trinity
kb9vqf	and if you manually start it do things work?
Xu_R	trying to find the binary to start it
Xu_R	ubuntu moved things around
Xu_R	hmm
Xu_R	ok, so it's only set to start in gnome...
Xu_R	'/ETC/XDG/AUTOSTART/POLKIT-GNOME-AUTHENTICATION-AGENT-1.DESKTOP'
Xu_R	(sorry for the capitals)
Xu_R	ok
Xu_R	lemme test this out...
Xu_R	it works
Xu_R	so, yea...
Xu_R	you need another background process to display the dialogs >_>
Xu_R	the binary controlling this: '/usr/lib/policykit-1-gnome/polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1
Xu_R	;
Xu_R	*'
kb9vqf	well, that is definitely a problem
kb9vqf	I hate that design
kb9vqf	but I guess I have to live with it for now
kb9vqf	so we'll need a /ETC/XDG/AUTOSTART/POLKIT-TRINITY-AUTHENTICATION-AGENT-1.DESKTOP with nearly identical contents that depends on the package including /ETC/XDG/AUTOSTART/POLKIT-GNOME-AUTHENTICATION-AGENT-1.DESKTOP
kb9vqf	:-P
Xu_R	yea
Xu_R	and they need to have OnlyShowIn=TDE; or something...
kb9vqf	right
kb9vqf	thats the "nearly identical contents" mentioned above ;-)
Xu_R	;P
kb9vqf	<rant>Linux is becoming more like the bad part of Windows merged with the bad UI of UNIX and the childish UI of Mac all rolled into one</rant>
Xu_R	but is the 'TDE' part recognizable?
Xu_R	kb9vqf: +1
kb9vqf	hmmm...it might be recognizable, not sure
kb9vqf	can you try it?
kb9vqf	if it doesn't launch then try OnlyShowIn=KDE
Xu_R	ok
Xu_R	let's seee...
Xu_R	nope, TDE doesn't work
Xu_R	o_O
Xu_R	KDE doesn't work either...
Xu_R	kb9vqf: is Trinity reading /etc/xdg/autostart?
kb9vqf	it *should*
kb9vqf	try it without the OnlyShowIn just for fun
kb9vqf	barring that, you could try creating an entry in /opt/trinity/etc/xdg/autostart/
Xu_R	without the OnlyShowIn it works
Xu_R	o_o"
kb9vqf	hmmm
kb9vqf	OnlyShowIn=KDE3?
kb9vqf	if that works then something old snuck through
Xu_R	dum dum dum.
Xu_R	no, KDE3 doesn't work
Xu_R	o_o"
kb9vqf	huh
* kb9vqf goes to look at kdebase
Xu_R	something slipped through... >_>"
kb9vqf	Well it is supposed to be OnlyShowIn=KDE;
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Is there a NotShowIn field?
Xu_R	no
Xu_R	hmm... interesting, because adept notifier is also in /etc/xdg/autostart and it has OnlyShowIn=KDE;
Xu_R	I'm going to try again with KDE
kb9vqf	right
kb9vqf	something must be confusing it
Xu_R	hey, this time it works....
Xu_R	>_>"
Xu_R	brb, dinner...
kb9vqf	Xu_R: X-TDE-Autostart* support is now in SVN revision 1245190.
kb9vqf	X-TDE-Autostart* is preferred, but it will fall back to X-KDE-Autostart* if needed
Xu_R	ok
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kb9vqf	Xu_R: KDM session name moved from KDE3 to TDE in SVN revision 1245194.
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Xu_R	kb9vqf: :D
Xu_R	kb9vqf: Question: Is it possible for the kickoff menu icon to just be a Trinity logo icon?
Xu_R	(and we have to get rid of that embedded image stuff, that's uglyyy)
kb9vqf	I'm not going to fight with it personally as I never use Kickoff
kb9vqf	if you want to try to fix it send me a patch :)
Xu_R	eek - ok, I'll see what I cando
kb9vqf	ok
Xu_R	kb9vqf: on the About Trinity dialog, the name is still "About KDE"
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kb9vqf	Xu_R: That was fixed about an hour ago
Xu_R	oh, ok :P
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Xu_R	kb9vqf: can I close bug 459? because you've moved everything to .trinity already
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=459 blocker, P1, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Detecting $KDEHOME to avoid conflicts with KDE3 and KDE4
kb9vqf	It *should* be fixed
kb9vqf	but I would verify it before closing that bug!!
Xu_R	ok
MutantTurkey	awesome!
MutantTurkey	did you se the libpython2.6 bug?
Xu_R	the libpython2.6 bug I had also before - but I would call that bad ubuntu packaging
Xu_R	and not trinity's problem...
Xu_R	kb9vqf: patched startkde...
Xu_R	and it works!
Xu_R	my .kde3 moved to .trinity
Xu_R	and I still have all my settings
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Xu_R	kb9vqf: I can confirm.
Xu_R	and looks like the rest of the bug has already been done
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kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	go ahead and close it then
Xu_R	closed already :P
Xu_R	hm, breaking news just popped up..
Xu_R	"Rating agency Standard & Poor's says it has downgraded the U.S. credit rating to AA+ from its top rank of AAA. "
Xu_R	oh, who didn't see that coming.. .>_>
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	and not good :-P
Xu_R	nope :P
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KingSphinx	So the channel does exist... :P
Xu_R	...
KingSphinx	Sorry, actually just thought I'd drop by this channel to give a few words of praise, for lack of a better term, to this project for having the guts to maintain the former incarnation of KDE. Bravo!
KingSphinx	To be honest, I never used KDE until... 4.2, I think? I have no hard feelings against the Plasma Desktop, but 3.x just feels... right, you know? Anyhoo, if I'm bothering anyone, sorry...
kb9vqf	no, not bothering us at all :)
kb9vqf	we like it when users stop by to tell us they like what we are doing
kb9vqf	and in your case especially we can point to someone who had no predjudice against KDE4 (since KDE4 was your first experience with KDE), which means that the KDE3 style is still superior for some percentage of new Linux users :)
kb9vqf	thanks for going out of your way to let us know you like the project!
KingSphinx	I really don't understand why they felt the need to drop Kicker entirely, it was ported to Qt4 and everything, but droppped in alpha IIRC. It would've been nice for them to have left it as an optional component or something. :/
KingSphinx	However, Trinity's indirectly responsible for my migration to Fedora (broke Compiz and my display driver with it)
kb9vqf	I don't think it was fully ported
kb9vqf	Qt4 was too limited to handle the "old" Kicker internals
KingSphinx	It was fine until I tried to experiment with Compiz though, so I harbor no ill will towards it.
kb9vqf	use fusion-icon
kb9vqf	and Ubuntu itself is....ehmm...unstable when it comes to Compiz
kb9vqf	regardless of the DE you use
kb9vqf	the only time I have been able to keep Compiz on is with an older Intel card on an IBM laptop
KingSphinx	Seems Intel hardware is the most reliable when it comes to just about anything Linux-related...
* KingSphinx has a Broadcom wireless chip that Ubuntu doesn't support out-of-box
KingSphinx	That's actually not a good thing for me, since I kind of have to jump through hoops to get it running in *buntu, and sadly, if I wanted to install Trinity again (made a CD so I can revisit it), I don't think I could get my wireless working even with the instructions provided by the Ubuntu wiki because I'm not sure if Trinity provides the tools required. Bleh, that was a mouthful.
KingSphinx	Specifically, these instructions: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx
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ar	KingSphinx: the only reliable thing about intel, where drivers do actually matter, are network cards
ar	KingSphinx: i've seen enough rendering issues/artifacts on my laptop, which has intel graphics
ar	Xu_R: "AA+"? i've heard something about "D"
* kb9vqf thinks ar was looking trough a time vortex into a few years from now
ar	no, not really: http://www.goldmadesimple.com/gold-made-simple-cuts-usa-rating-from-aaa-to-d
ar	still, imo all of those "rating agencies" are just a scam
ar	(and no, i don't live in the usa)
KingSphinx	I really think the rating decrease seems kinda overdue... I mean, really? A nation that's untold trillions in debt and it has perfect credit?
* kb9vqf agrees with KingSphinx
KingSphinx	oh yeah! A question I've been meaning to ask: with the planned ports to RPM-based systems, will each distro retain its own artwork/theme or will it just be the "generic" KDE 3 look?
kb9vqf	debt to GDP ratio is just too high
kb9vqf	Xu_R might know
kb9vqf	it depends on whether or not the distro maintainer(s) will pull in the original KDE3.5 theming from the distribution or not
kb9vqf	I did with Ubuntu, but then again there have been several cycles since then, so the current artwork looks nothing like the original artwork ;-)
kb9vqf	*release cycles
KingSphinx	I think Fedora still has the Qt3 port of Bluecurve in its repos, and lol, I've noticed.
KingSphinx	Hardy looked excellent, but it seems from 8.10 onward, Kubuntu just opted to use the "generic" themeing.
kb9vqf	hmmm...8.10 sounds like the point at which my releases started
kb9vqf	you must not have had the theming packages installed
kb9vqf	for reference, here's how the Ubuntu releases look now: http://apt.pearsoncomputing.net/cdimages/
KingSphinx	Interesting... Enterprise Edition seems to vaguely resemble Windows XP (possibly on purpose?)
KingSphinx	Desktop Edition seems to pretty much look like Hardy with a new wallpaper. Not a bad thing though, it looks great IMO.
KingSphinx	Just what does Enterprise have that Desktop lacks? Additional apps/drivers?
kb9vqf	yep
kb9vqf	loads of apps
kb9vqf	more drivers
kb9vqf	and a cleaner, tighter widget style and theme
kb9vqf	more along the lines of what you expect in a corporate environment
ar	paypal :/
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Xu_R	ar: LOL
Xu_R	kb9vqf: yes, distros will pull in KDE theming from the distribution D:
Xu_R	and I dropped Fedora because they strictly forbid anything installed in /opt, which is a pain because then I have to conflict anything KDE4
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raevyn	Hello! So I havebeen playing with Trinity DVD today and realized its Ubuntu 10.10, just no GNOME desktop. Is that accurate?
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KingSphinx	What's all this about Fedora forbidding anything installed in /opt?
raevyn	hello. so i just compared my kde3 installation on ubuntu to the installation that is one the tde enterprise dvd.. and i am missing a huge number of files.
raevyn	could this have been caused by installing kde4 first?
KingSphinx	Well yeah, I'd believe the cause may actually just be that the Enterprise DVD has a lot of extra features, whereas installing via repo will just give the standard CD experience.
raevyn	ohhhhh... <sighs> is there a way to remedy that? to get the entire KDE software set via repo?
KingSphinx	Maube, but I'm not sure, I haven't had Trinity in a while. (it's not available for Fedora, nor does it seem likely in the forseeable future.)
KingSphinx	*maybe
raevyn	what if i moved the files i am missing from the virtual machine directory into the main system directory?
raevyn	okay i copied kdf over and now it does run appearing with the kde3 theming rather than kde4.. so maybe that is all i have to do?
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raevyn	hello im back. i had to restart.
raevyn	so, i confirmed with another VM that indeed the enterprise version of TDE comes with more software.
raevyn	But I have some concerns... Ubuntu was great at hardware detection and has a good software repo... so first off is the Trinity DVD incorporate thsoe ubuntu traits? And, I would like to still keep gnome or install it after installing Trinity Enterprise.. can I still do that?
raevyn	oh you know, no on is here lol. I will try back on Monday
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Xu_R	KingSphinx: uhhh... standard FHS, Fedora policy, etc?
KingSphinx	Oh well, hopefully something can be done to get it ported to Fedora. If not, guess it's migration time for me. :/
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Raevyn	hi.. so somehow i have dolphin popping up on me when i open folders. is there a way to get back to konquerer?
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Space_Man	K menu / System settings / Default applications / File associations / Inode / Directory / add Konqueror here or move it up
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KingSphinx	Well, I was surprised to see that Trinity indeed has jockey-gtk, so I can still install the necessary drivers for my wireless card even with no wired connection. :D
KingSphinx	Whoops, that didn't come out right.
KingSphinx	I was surprised to see that Trinity still has jockey-gtk, so I can still install my wireless drivers.
KingSphinx	Oh wait, that *did* all come out the first time. Sorry! ^^;
* kb9vqf notes that we support GTK applications in preference to Qt4 ones, as 1) we can overlay Trinity themes on them and 2) they are more stable and less resource hungry than Qt4 apps tend to be
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OnlyHuman	quack
OnlyHuman	!rpm
tbottu	OnlyHuman: Error: "rpm" is not a valid command.
OnlyHuman	vrpm
OnlyHuman	v rpm
OnlyHuman	quack quack
Xu_R	not cool, OnlyHuman
OnlyHuman	oh
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Xu_R	-_-""
Xu_R	I'll take the beating for him on this one.
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l0ner	Hi
elcaset__	hello howdy
l0ner	anyone here from who i could get some help with compiling (or rather non-compiling) parts of trinity?
elcaset__	I am not experienced enough to help with compiling, but I bet someone here ios.
elcaset__	oops, here is.
l0ner	kb9vqf should be able to help
l0ner	but it seems he's away
elcaset__	i tried Porteus GNU/Linux with Trinity pre-installed.  i like it, so far.
l0ner	I used the Ubuntu-based trinity distro
l0ner	but it was ubuntu, which is too blated for me
l0ner	normally I use gentoo
l0ner	which I can configure any way I want
KingSphinx	The only other version of Trinity available that I know of is Slackware, so... there's a Gentoo version?
l0ner	no, there is overlay but it sucks
KingSphinx	the kde-sunset overlay?
l0ner	so I pulled trinity code from svn and I'm trying to compile it maually
l0ner	no the kde-trinity
KingSphinx	Wouldn't know about compiling something as big as Trinity, sorry.
l0ner	it's not in the main overlay list
l0ner	kay, I'll wait
* KingSphinx has never used a Linux distro more complex than Fedora...
l0ner	well, the gentoo is not complex
l0ner	but You'll need to learn how it handles some aspects
KingSphinx	I'm perfectly aware of DIY stuff like that, I just prefer the "noobier" stuff like Ubuntu/Fedora/Debian
l0ner	I prefered it years ago
l0ner	then I noticed it was too heavy for me, and too bloated
l0ner	so I moved directly from ubuntu tu gentoo
KingSphinx	Ah
KingSphinx	Nice
l0ner	and didn't had many problems
KingSphinx	Nothing wrong with that, though I still prefer my choices. :P
l0ner	the handbook is pretty clear on how to install it
KingSphinx	USE flags seem very cool though.
l0ner	yeah, I know ;) It's the "different distro for every user" rule :P
l0ner	I even thought about doing it hardcore way, using the LFS
l0ner	but it's a little too much for me :P
KingSphinx	I might have to migrate back to Kubuntu Trinity, since it now seems unlikely that Trinity can be properly ported to Fedora (something about packages not being allowed to be installed in /opt...?)
l0ner	dunno, never used Fedora. But I had read about it in the channels history
l0ner	it seems pretty pointless blocking the /opt dir, which existence was to allow user install external thing he needed
l0ner	at least it's what i had been told years ago
KingSphinx	I know, but there's not much I can really do. But... I found my old Google Chrome install in /opt, and it was an RPM package, so maybe... hmm...
l0ner	maybe they don't allow thing installed by user,
l0ner	not by the repo system or things like that
l0ner	or maybe it was there before they introduced this "nothing in /opt" rule and there is nothing that would delete it
* l0ner thinks about getting some sleep
l0ner	well... bbl
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Space_Man	KDE Frameworks 5.0 In Development http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/08/07/2128222/KDE-Frameworks-50-In-Development
KingSphinx	It's only in development, but... this technically means Trinity's now two generations out-of-date. Dunno whether to laugh of feel depressed...
KingSphinx	*or
elcaset__	some folks over at the PCLOS irc are trying to convince me that KDE Trinity has no hope.  There is some hope, right?
Space_Man	yes there is still lots of life in Trinity
elcaset__	awesome!.  thanks Space_Man.
Space_Man	has Qt5 even been announced?
elcaset__	it's in the works, but i don't know beyond that.
Space_Man	a blogpost about qt5 http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/05/09/thoughts-about-qt-5/
elcaset__	there were qt5 discussions supposedly at that KDE gathering in Europe that occured in the last 3 months.
Space_Man	"beta quality code available towards the end of the year and final Qt 5.0 release some time during 2012."
Space_Man	Tim has written "TQt" which bridges qt3 and qt4
KingSphinx	A question about TQt: is it supposed to be a fork of the old Qt3 or is it something like a bridge for Qt4?
Space_Man	it used the best bits from both :P
KingSphinx	Oh, nvm, saw above
Space_Man	I'm 100% certain of the details
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KingSphinx	Will there eventually be bits from Qt5?
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Xu_R	KingSphinx: yes, there will. but we have to get to Qt4 first :P
Xu_R	time to download the latest nightly build for my xubuntu and see the SVN changes :D
* KingSphinx feels lost amongst all the programmers... (cannot program anything to save my life)
Xu_R	well, I only know basic C++ programming
Xu_R	that I learned last year... >_>"
KingSphinx	I barely know HTML... ^^;
Xu_R	I'm learning Java next year. Wish me luck, because Java is hell xD
Xu_R	fk, I just remember I still have to renew my Linux Foundation Membership (which I didn't know I had >_>")
Xu_R	*remembered
Xu_R	ok, that's not good. latest nightly build isn't starting up trinity at all...
Xu_R	but checking xsession-errors, it looks like everything is working...
Xu_R	oh, god, I want to punch Upstart in the face so badly right now...
* KingSphinx notes that this is why I'm not brave enough to use nightly builds
* Xu_R is the daredevil on virtual machines :P
Xu_R	KingSphinx: this is why I have XFCE as another desktop :P
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kb9vqf	Xu_R: Nightly builds were suspended a few days ago due to old packages not being purge from the archive
kb9vqf	The problem has been resolved and builds are restarting
* kb9vqf whispers ethereal wisps of a new feature, long absent from Linux http://websvn.kde.org/?view=revision&revision=1245566
kb9vqf	For those who think Trinity has no future, bear in mind that we maintain Qt3 as upstream
kb9vqf	Since Qt3 was absorbed, you could think of Trinity as a pure Xlib desktop ;-)
kb9vqf	also, since TQt porting is complete, it would be theoretically possible to move Qt3 to the new TQ* namespace, thus eliminating any potential conflicts with Qt4
kb9vqf	this could be done independently of the Trinity desktop project
kb9vqf	Qt4 is a shifting target (still!) and has significant performance issues
kb9vqf	not all the problems with KDE4 are due to the KDE4 developers....
KingSphinx	I really don't get why there's people that say "Trinity has no future"; last I checked, as long as a project has demand and developers still active, it has a future. </opinion>
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kde3ftw	anyone have any experience with servicemenus?  I'm trying to make a right click open with console here for folders but when I use it, it always sends me to the ~ directory not the directory i right clicked on.  My servicemenu .desktop file is here: http://pastebin.com/Z75CeD2f
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kb9vqf	kde3ftw: You will need to pass the --workdir flag to Konsole, along with  (so 'konsole --workdir ')
kb9vqf	kde3ftw: You will need to pass the --workdir flag to Konsole, along with  (so 'konsole --workdir %U')
kb9vqf	grr
kb9vqf	IRC keeps eating the % signs
kb9vqf	let's try that one more time
kb9vqf	kde3ftw: You will need to pass the --workdir flag to Konsole, along with %U (so 'konsole --workdir %U')
kb9vqf	there we go
kde3ftw	kb9vqf -- Thanks ill give it a try -- and btw thanks for all the development on kde3 :)
kb9vqf	np
kde3ftw	kb9vqf ---> the Exec='konsole --workdir %U" didnt work BUT Exec=konsole --workdir '%U' does! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction :)
kb9vqf	glad to hear it
kb9vqf	:)
kb9vqf	yes, I forgot the quotes
kb9vqf	it's been a while since I worked on service menus :)
kde3ftw	whoops posted um wrong too.. did the " 's and ''s
kde3ftw	hehhe
kde3ftw	yeah.. having access to the console from anywhere is just so helpful though :)
kde3ftw	kb9vqf -- thanks again and gnite!
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KingSphinx	About the whole "Trinity-decoupling-from-Ubuntu" thing: the Kubuntu wiki says that Trinity's moved to a yearly schedule. Does this mean that the next release will likely be released as 11.10 or is this more of a "when it's done" sort of thing?
kb9vqf	when it's done
kb9vqf	probably on a yearly schedule
kb9vqf	6mos is too short
KingSphinx	I imagine so, especially given the relative size of the project compared to, say, current KDE
KingSphinx	With the instructions given on the site, however, it is possible to stay current?
KingSphinx	Also, completely unrelated, but it really is impressive how lightweight 3.x is... just saw a video of someone running 3.5.10 very well on a Pentium 4 and only 1 GB of RAM :)
kb9vqf	we are building Natty packages now
kb9vqf	there won't be this long hiatus in the future
kb9vqf	our build system broke when Natty was released
kb9vqf	due to Autotools changes
kb9vqf	it took quite some time to get those problems fixed
kb9vqf	IMHO the desktop *should* be that light :)
kb9vqf	believe it or not, on powerful, modern hardware, Trinity still feels a bit sluggish at times when used at very high screen resolutions
KingSphinx	Just for curiosity's sake (sorry, I love asking questions), it'll pretty much by Natty, but still 3.5.12?
KingSphinx	1280x1024's not that high, is it?
kb9vqf	no
kb9vqf	try 1080 ;-)
kb9vqf	try 3840x1080 ;-)
kb9vqf	what do you mean "by natty"?
KingSphinx	Wow
* kb9vqf thinks KDE4 would be especially unusable at that resolution
KingSphinx	lol, possibly
KingSphinx	You'd need one heck of a computer to run it at a decent speed, that's for sure
* KingSphinx still ran KDE 4.2 on a 2.4 GHz Pentium 4 and 512 MB of RAM back when 9.04 was around
KingSphinx	I still have that old clunker of a computer, just upgraded to 1 GB RAM and GeForce 4 graphics
elcaset__	KDE 4.2 is a lot faster than KDE 4.5 in my usage.
KingSphinx	Somehow, KDE 4 ran just as badly after the upgrades.
KingSphinx	You know a desktop is bloated when Trinity can beat it running off the CD
KingSphinx	To be fair, 4 runs pretty well on my current rig, but Trinity's still ending up on it one way or another. Even if I have to distro-hop back to Kubuntu to do it.
* KingSphinx is wondering how exactly one goes about installing a new distro over an old one while keeping your /home partition
kb9vqf	a cell phone OS may run very well on a desktop computer, but then why have the desktop computer at all?  Just buy another cell phone... :-P
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* l0ner is back
l0ner	Notice: the trinitydesktop.org/wiki main page has been spammed and now it's displaying some text about insurances...
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Space_Man	the wiki spam has been removed
l0ner	good thing
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l0ner	I'm having trouble compiling the kdelibs. Error I get: http://paste.pocoo.org/raw/454660/
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MutantTurkey	I had this idea.
MutantTurkey	basically I am sick of programs stealing CPU uselessly, and i was thinking (if only i could pause them!) but then i thought, wait this is linux. SIGTSTP works perfectly.
MutantTurkey	Now I am hacking onto dwm to automatically SIGTSTP anytime a window goes out of focus.
MutantTurkey	then SIGTCONT when it is refocused
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*** Xu_R is now known as Xu_R|ZNC
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MutantTurkey	o/ Xu_R
Xu_R	hey MutantTurkey
MutantTurkey	whats up man
Xu_R	gotta finish summer hw and get stuff
MutantTurkey	oh nice
ar	MutantTurkey: you know you're basically reimplementing ios multitasking?
MutantTurkey	title
MutantTurkey	ar: what!
MutantTurkey	ar: no idea actually, what is ios?
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: iOS = iPhone OS
MutantTurkey	oh
MutantTurkey	so yes basically.
MutantTurkey	except on the desktop
ar	yes
ar	and it might be a good battery saver
MutantTurkey	because I don't need ffx taking 25% cpu to draw gifs and flash apps in the background
MutantTurkey	indeed
MutantTurkey	I need a system of orginizing and tagging programs.
MutantTurkey	so that all firefox's pause automatically, but never do it to a terminal etc.
MutantTurkey	and manual for all of it
l0ner	MutantTurkey: share it when You finish it
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kb9vqf	Space_Man: Where was the wiki spam, and do you know how it got there?
kb9vqf	It sounds like something wasn't locked down correctly
Space_Man	2 people made accounts, #1 added a new page and the #2 added a new page and edited the start page
Space_Man	http://trinitydesktop.org/wiki/bin/view/Main/WebStatistics
Space_Man	the pages were ShortTermLoans and Trash.MainJazelAseAs
Space_Man	the spammers were RaynnPada and MainJazelAseAs
Space_Man	earlier I made a foswiki account and deleted the pages and users
MutantTurkey
l0ner	kb9vqf: I have some problems compiling the kdelibs. Don't know if you've seen my msg earlier
kb9vqf	no I didn't
kb9vqf	what is your problem?
l0ner	http://paste.pocoo.org/raw/454660/
l0ner	this is what i get
kb9vqf	compile and install the latest Qt3 sources from our GIT repository
kb9vqf	our Qt3 is extended vs. the old Qt3 in most distributions' package systems
l0ner	did, but I will try to recompile
kb9vqf	yes, the change is recent
kb9vqf	within the past few days
l0ner	ok, is there any way to checkout anonymously from your git?
kb9vqf	yes
MutantTurkey	same way as regularly
MutantTurkey	just don't use the user@ bit
l0ner	ok, thx
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: the development page is handy
kb9vqf	glad to hear it :)
kb9vqf	(of course you were the one that worked on it so...)
MutantTurkey	it should encourage more developers anyhow
kb9vqf	Space_Man: The main Web was not locked down
kb9vqf	It is now
kb9vqf	no more spam I hope :)
l0ner	linux amuses me...
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Raevyn	Hello. Is there any instructions to install TDE on ubuntu 11?
Raevyn	oh.. well thats odd. I uninstalled kde 4 and that took out much of tde.. though the software center seems to be running something to repair broken deps
Space_Man	Raevyn: did you fix your Dolphin / Konqueror problem?
Raevyn	oh yes.. i uninstalled dolphin
Space_Man	good
Raevyn	it owuld be nice to have it as an option but I couldnt find anyplace to go to make konqeror my default
Space_Man	K menu / System settings / Default applications / File associations / Inode / Directory / add Konqueror here or move it up
Raevyn	thank you! I will try it again :)
Space_Man	did you use ubuntu or kubuntu 11.04?
Raevyn	ubuntu 10.10 upgraded to 11.04.
Space_Man	later I'm going to install ubuntu 11.04 trinity but I don't know how to
Space_Man	I guess install ubuntu 11.04 then add the trinity repo's
Raevyn	I was going to let the software center fix itself then try installing TDE again
Raevyn	hm.. it still fails to install. is there maybe a way to make it install if it was installed previously and was damaged?
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kb9vqf	Xu_R: I think the polkit problem is fixed with the new package tde-ubuntu-integration
kb9vqf	can you try it?
*** kb9vqf changes topic to "Trinity Desktop Environment 3.5.12 is out! Get it at http://www.trinitydesktop.org Also, consider joining the Trinity mailing lists [http://bit.ly/hZ83mF]. IRC will be most active/helpful during business hours in the USA. BOTW #394 [http://bit.ly/i3tpT5] CMake status [http://bit.ly/fvh4f2] Natty [http://bit.ly/kzH5mO] Support the Project! [http://bit.ly/pmkMVB]"
l0ner	can I ask someting?
l0ner	what exactly aRts is?
kb9vqf	it's a sound system proxy
kb9vqf	a sort of abstraction layer that sits between Trinity apps and OSS/ALSA/PulseAudio/etc
l0ner	ok, thx
l0ner	another question: do You plan on supporting PulseAudio, with it's fetures, in TDE?
l0ner	since PulseAudio seems like nice thing when looked at description on their main page
l0ner	yet, I never seen it actually work like it should
Xu_R	kb9vqf: back from school supply shopping XD yess, will boot up and test asap
kb9vqf	l0ner: Which features?
kb9vqf	Pulse works fine in Trinity right now
l0ner	kb9vqf: like separate volume control for each app
l0ner	or it is already included
kb9vqf	for each app? no
kb9vqf	didn't even know that was available :-/
l0ner	"Generic hardware abstraction, giving the possibility of doing things like individual volumes per application."
l0ner	taken from pulse website
l0ner	it would be really nice to have this, since I was using this a lot in win7
l0ner	and I always missed this in linux
kb9vqf	I don't even know if any GUIs/DEs currently allow you to do that
kb9vqf	Never heard of it personally
kb9vqf	Just because a backedn supports something doesn't mean there are any frontends yet--just look at XRandR 1.2
kb9vqf	:)
kb9vqf	*backend
Xu_R	kb9vqf: the package hasn't appeared on mirrors yet, so you'll have to wait a day D:
kb9vqf	That being said...you should file a feature request bug report
kb9vqf	Xu_R: OK
kb9vqf	that makes sense
Xu_R	kb9vqf: how about kdesudo? is it fixed? :o
l0ner	kb9vqf: will thought about it ;)
kb9vqf	l0ner: Describe at least one way to access the proposed feature (e.g. via a configuration dialog in kmix, right-clicking on a running application titlebar/taskbar entry, etc.)
kb9vqf	in the bug report that is
kb9vqf	Xu_R: you can pull it directly from https://quickbuild.pearsoncomputing.net/~trinity/+archive/trinity-nightly-builds/+files/tde-ubuntu-integration_0.1-0_all.deb
Xu_R	ok
l0ner	kb9vqf: ok, I will do it later, when I thought about it ;)
kb9vqf	sure :)
kb9vqf	we can't know what our users want unless they tell us :)
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: what is the meta package for trinity under debian?
MutantTurkey	as in, how can I install all trinity packages with a single command
Xu_R	kb9vqf: testing
Xu_R	and I confirmed a TDE entry now in KDM :D
Xu_R	kb9vqf: and it works :D
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: kde-trinity
MutantTurkey	thanks
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Without your previous hack in place?
Xu_R	yea
kb9vqf	great!
MutantTurkey	also what l0ner said is a great idea
Xu_R	I removed the previous hack before installing the package
kb9vqf	Xu_R: I set ksmserver to recommend tde-ubuntu-integration
Xu_R	ok
kb9vqf	so it should get sucked in when someone installs via the metapackage
Xu_R	ok
kb9vqf	and if it doesn't, a search in synaptic for tde and policykit should turn it up ;-)
Xu_R	:)
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Xu_R	kb9vqf: D: kdesu still doesn't work...
kb9vqf	I expect that
kb9vqf	it hasn't been uploaded yet
Xu_R	ah, ok.
kb9vqf	as I mentioned before the nightly builds stalled due to obsolete packages not being automatically purged
Xu_R	ah, right.
kb9vqf	it's amazing how fast you can chew through disk space that way :rolleyes:
kb9vqf	I'm working on a few glitches, then I'll restart the builds
Xu_R	oh, yea. I know. /me looks at his server here... >_>
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MutantTurkey	installing trinity on my vps xD
Xu_R	kb9vqf: ok, this is an interesting development
Xu_R	kb9vqf: I got tired of kdesudo, so I removed kdesudo-trinity...
Xu_R	and then all of a sudden it's working... without the package?
Xu_R	ok, lemme rephrase that - kdesudo isn't working, but kdesu *is* and is accepting sudo requests...
kb9vqf	right
kb9vqf	kdesu is the fallback
* Xu_R is glad now that he killed off the kdesudo-trinity package then because it's not working...
MutantTurkey	wubwubwub
MutantTurkey	I did apt-get install kde-trinity and everything is named like kde4...
MutantTurkey	even while it works like trinity
MutantTurkey	actually I have no idea whats going on
l0ner	damn
l0ner	I recompiled qt, recompiled tqt, and arts
l0ner	and I still can't compile kdelibs
l0ner	I the same error
l0ner	*I got
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MutantTurkey	weird
MutantTurkey	kicker is eating my cpu at 100%
MutantTurkey	is that normal for first boot?
MutantTurkey	caching the entries or something?
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MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: ^
MutantTurkey	weird
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MutantTurkey	what i think happened was that kde4 started alongside trinity, and locked everything up.
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KingSphinx	I got Trinity installed! :D
Xu_R	:D
KingSphinx	And managed to keep my /home as well, though getting wireless working with no wired connection was a PITA
Xu_R	always is.
KingSphinx	Especially with Broadcom cards...
MutantTurkey	wireless is a totaly pain if you don't memorize how to do it.
MutantTurkey	at this point I have it all memorized.
MutantTurkey	dhcpcd is your friend!!
l0ner	strange, i had no problem with my broadcom card
MutantTurkey	l0ner: about half the people love it, the other half hate it.
l0ner	yeah, i know
l0ner	problem is, 99% of users are using generic kernel
KingSphinx	Fedora didn't have any trouble detecting/using it out-of-box... and *only* Fedora can, I don't know why.
l0ner	and need to use strange things
MutantTurkey	KingSphinx: haven't tried arch yet then :p
Xu_R	or suse :P
MutantTurkey	doesn't everyone still mostly self compile kernels?
l0ner	maybe because Fedora has precompiled modules for broadcom and ships firmware
KingSphinx	Tried SuSE, that doesn't either
l0ner	depends
Xu_R	strange - I've always gotten SuSE to work for me... /me has strange luck with it
l0ner	about what kind of user we are talking? unless you are advanced, you'll use generic kernel
l0ner	even on gentoo, where compiling your own kernel is a part of installation, there are some people who prefer the genkernel
MutantTurkey	I suqqsaI suppose
MutantTurkey	I always have self compiled, out of habit I guess
MutantTurkey	plus my kernel is lean and mean
l0ner	I have self compiled because i like my kernel minimal and moduleless
l0ner	i keep only minimal set of modules, everything else is included in kernel
MutantTurkey	indeed
MutantTurkey	modules are annoying as heck
l0ner	and they slow down bootup
MutantTurkey	my hardware is always the same, therefore dynamic loaded modules is ineffiecient
l0ner	same for me, sice I'm running linux on my laptop
MutantTurkey	exactly
kb9vqf	l0ner: Then you must have two versions of Qt3 installed
kb9vqf	ours and your distro's stock version
kb9vqf	try to locate qstyle
kb9vqf	try to 'locate qstyle.h' and see if you have it in multiple header directories
l0ner	the problem is: my distro don't ship qt3 anymore
KingSphinx	Your distro of choice?
l0ner	they stopped something like 2 years ago, when decided to drop kde3.5
l0ner	gentoo
KingSphinx	kde-sunset overlay?
* Xu_R wonders where samelian went
* Xu_R notes that samelian was working on gentoo/kde-sunset IIRC
l0ner	i used it, but it sucked, too many bugs, so i purged my system from it
l0ner	right now i should have only qt3 from your git
* KingSphinx wonders if TDE will get ported to Gentoo...
l0ner	i was thinking about it
KingSphinx	Also, just my opinion, but while TDE's version of Konqueror makes a great file manager, it's kinda dated as a web browser.
l0ner	KingSphinx: never liked konqueror as web browser
l0ner	i prefer have them separated
KingSphinx	Current version of Konqueror's much-improved, I can say this from experience.
l0ner	but it's because of my philosophy: one app for one thing
l0ner	KingSphinx: you say? maybe i'll try to give it a shot
MutantTurkey	l0ner: i follow that mostly as well.
KingSphinx	Quick question: would simply installing ubuntu-restricted-extras do the trick for MP3 codecs and Flash/whatever?
KingSphinx	Or does Trinity have its own way of installing proprietary codecs?
Xu_R	KingSphinx: ubuntu-restricted-extras is all you need
MutantTurkey	guys I am running into a big problem
MutantTurkey	first of all kde4 is running alongside trinity, no idea why.
MutantTurkey	second of all, I have no idea how it got installed  D:
KingSphinx	That sounds odd, yet strangely cool.
Xu_R	sounds like recommends got pulled in
l0ner	ok, I think i found where my problem is
MutantTurkey	Xu_R: yeah..
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: try removing any bits of kde4 you have
Xu_R	(just remove qt4, it'll pull down the rest of kde4)
MutantTurkey	apt-get remove?
Xu_R	yea
MutantTurkey	it says unable to locate qt4
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: apt-cache search qt4 | less
Xu_R	and locate the qt4 libarary
Xu_R	*library
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MutantTurkey	anot even there.
MutantTurkey	apt is so counter intuitive
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: That happens because Plasma is set to autolaunch at all times
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: what should I do?
kb9vqf	Really stupid design decision IMHO
kb9vqf	which version of Ubuntu are you on?
MutantTurkey	debian
kb9vqf	oh
kb9vqf	look for the plasma.desktop autostart file
kb9vqf	and for now move it somewhere else
MutantTurkey	where whould that be?
kb9vqf	that will kill KDE4 though
kb9vqf	try in /etc/xdg/autostart or similar
kb9vqf	I don't recall OTOH
MutantTurkey	not there.
* Xu_R is pretty sure MutantTurkey doesn't want kde4 anyway XP
MutantTurkey	I don't even have kde4 installed afaik
kb9vqf	well then move /usr/bin/plasma to /usr/bin/plasma.bkp ;-)
kb9vqf	that will completely kill KDE4 :)
Xu_R	or remove libqtcore4
Xu_R	(and kill everything >:D)
MutantTurkey	ok
MutantTurkey	goot call
kb9vqf	the /usr/bin/plasma hack will at least let you use KDE4 apps if neede
kb9vqf	*needed
MutantTurkey	I don't even use kde4....
MutantTurkey	I don't even know how it got here!
Xu_R	use aptitude next time ;P
kb9vqf	probably through some weird apt recommends chain
MutantTurkey	darn
MutantTurkey	frankly I don't understand the whole dkpksystem
MutantTurkey	and there is terrible lag all of a sudden :[
l0ner	thats why i choose gentoo
l0ner	i control what i get in my system
l0ner	and i can configure some dependencies through USE flags
kb9vqf	to each his own
Xu_R	hehe.
kb9vqf	in my case gentoo would represent unmanageable administrative overhead :)
kb9vqf	so it was worth it to learn dpkg in all its gory detauls
kb9vqf	*details
MutantTurkey	l0ner: thats why I use arch,... because it doesn't suck with dpepends
l0ner	MutantTurkey: from what i heard from my friend who uses arch, they are pretty much the same
l0ner	gentoo and arch i mean
MutantTurkey	similar
MutantTurkey	.
MutantTurkey	but not identical
MutantTurkey	I think pacman is very sane for package managing.
l0ner	maybe some day i will try arch
MutantTurkey	alot of people make the switch from gentoo
l0ner	i imagine
l0ner	since first 4 attempts to install will fail :P
MutantTurkey	hahaha
l0ner	it was like this for me
l0ner	but back then gcc didn't accept CFLAGS="-march=native"
l0ner	one i set this wrong, second time i tried to install gentoo without multilib on 64bit system
l0ner	back then it was impossible to get working system without multilib
l0ner	third time i dont remember, but i think i had some issues with ld
l0ner	fourth finally was successful ;)
MutantTurkey	that is the greatest thing ever
MutantTurkey	-march=native is awesome.
l0ner	yeah :)
l0ner	it resolved problems with choosing right march
MutantTurkey	exactly
l0ner	on some strange processors like mine i3
MutantTurkey	atom really benifits
MutantTurkey	because its stack is different
l0ner	I can imagine ;)
* l0ner never had atom based machine though
MutantTurkey	I love it
MutantTurkey	i mean it pulls like 25W of power
MutantTurkey	at max load...
l0ner	whoah
MutantTurkey	yeah.
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kb9vqf	of course it's not much more powerful than a pocket calculator ;-)
Xu_R	XD
MutantTurkey	basically not :P
Xu_R	looks like l0ner abruptly exited...
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Xu_R	wb l0ner
l0ner	i accidentally hit ctrl+w
MutantTurkey	actually It ranks somewghere really low on the scale
Xu_R	oops lol
l0ner	which closes current tab in kvirc
l0ner	MutantTurkey: my laptop pulls something around 50W on battery
MutantTurkey	yeah
l0ner	and 25W on ac plugged on
l0ner	and i cannot understand why
kb9vqf	graphics card
kb9vqf	Linux probably does not put it to sleep as it should
l0ner	maybe
kb9vqf	which graphics card manufacturer
kb9vqf	?
l0ner	ati
MutantTurkey	also I love the atom because it has great support for linux
kb9vqf	yup
MutantTurkey	everything runs great.
kb9vqf	stinko
Xu_R	:P
MutantTurkey	only think I dislike is the lack of any processing power...
MutantTurkey	also the graphics card is weak
MutantTurkey	but the newer versions have improved considerably.
kb9vqf	that's how you get low power ;P
l0ner	I was monitoring everything with powertop and noticed that acpi is waking up the processor more on battery
l0ner	while on ac it isn't
kb9vqf	newer kernels should fix that
l0ner	i'm using 2.6.39
l0ner	right now
kb9vqf	oh
kb9vqf	then I have no idea :)
MutantTurkey	not 3.0?
MutantTurkey	I mean we have 3.0 in our regular core now...
l0ner	gentoo don't have it yet in stable
kb9vqf	oh wait
kb9vqf	http://www.tech-info.com.ar/second-major-power-regression-found-in-linux-kernel-ubuntu/
l0ner	it's masked right now
kb9vqf	2.6.39 is the problem
MutantTurkey	arch is like bleeed bleed bleeding edge.
l0ner	lol
MutantTurkey	I run arch + testing branch.
MutantTurkey	but somehow  Ihave never had a problem!
l0ner	ok, i'll update my kernel when 3.0 hits stable
l0ner	i thought it was because my laptop was samsung
MutantTurkey	samsung?
MutantTurkey	thats the problem
MutantTurkey	next time buy a better laptop xD
l0ner	and use some obscure thigns for power mngmnt
kb9vqf	odd hardware may not have full support from Linux
l0ner	i know
MutantTurkey	actually I have a few samsung products I really love
kb9vqf	also ACPI is sometimes handled by the BIOS
l0ner	but i didn't had much choice
l0ner	it was a present from my grandfather
kb9vqf	so the wakeup events may just increase due to the design of the laptop
MutantTurkey	ah
MutantTurkey	I have a problem with ext4
kb9vqf	e.g. the BIOS may be monitoring the battery more frequently, etc.
MutantTurkey	it won't let me hard drive sleep ever
MutantTurkey	it constantly writes back to me
l0ner	the only samsung devices i love are their tv
MutantTurkey	dumb journaling
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: Increase the commit interval and use noatime
l0ner	anyway i'll look at my power issues after i managed to install trinity ;D
kb9vqf	noatime should do it alone in theory :)(
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: I do...
MutantTurkey	and noatime is default
MutantTurkey	its the journaling writeback.
kb9vqf	no it isn't default
MutantTurkey	and even with a 1 minute commit, it's pointless
kb9vqf	I know from experience
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf:  I mean for my systems :)
kb9vqf	oh, OK :)
MutantTurkey	I need to disable commits while not doing anything,
kb9vqf	no, you need to disable writing to disk when not doing anything
MutantTurkey	nothing writes to it though
MutantTurkey	it's jus the journal every 15 seconds or so
kb9vqf	you have a nasty little app somewhere that like to write to the disk
kb9vqf	hmm
MutantTurkey	nope
MutantTurkey	I don't even run logs.
kb9vqf	that doesn't sound right
kb9vqf	the journal would only be updated if something is written to disk
MutantTurkey	I did a bit of research and It seems a few people has this problem
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	sounds weird
kb9vqf	on my systems ext4 is great
l0ner	kb9vgf: ok, so i found where my problem was, recompiled everyting and now i get this: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/454951/
kb9vqf	ooh, nice
kb9vqf	what architecture are you on?
l0ner	x86_64
MutantTurkey	https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/607560
MutantTurkey	that bug report just goes on and on
kb9vqf	l0ner: Sounds like HAVE_SYS_STAT_H is unset
kb9vqf	are you compiling with CMake?
l0ner	yes
l0ner	i followed the wiki
kb9vqf	l0ner: Do you have sys/stat.h present on your system?
l0ner	kb9vqf: dunno, will look it up now. But i think not
kb9vqf	ok, that's your problem
kb9vqf	install whatever package provides it
kb9vqf	and rerun the entire compilation of kdelibs
l0ner	kb9vqf: ok, thx ;)
l0ner	will report how it has gone
l0ner	kb9vqf: wait, i think i found it in /usr/include/sys/stat.h
MutantTurkey	anyway, I've gotta catch the train i'll see you folks later!
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* KingSphinx is wondering why GTK apps aren't blending in...
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KingSphinx	I have gtk-qt-engine installed, but they aren't blending in.
KingSphinx	Do I need to tell GTK to use Qt styles in System Settings?
kb9vqf	KingSphinx: "Use my KDE style"
kb9vqf	then logout/login
kb9vqf	also, Firefox is a royal pain
kb9vqf	it likes to use its own widgets for several items
kb9vqf	Firefox 4 is worse in this respect
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KingSphinx	There we go, that fixed it.
kb9vqf	what did?
kb9vqf	oh, nevermind
kb9vqf	sorry
kb9vqf	l0ner_away: CMake can't find your sys/stat.h file
kb9vqf	you will need to look in its logs to figure out why
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l0ner_away	kb9vqf: ok, will look it up now
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l0ner	kb9vqf: "-- Looking for sys/stat.h - found" taken from cmake output
kb9vqf	hmm
kb9vqf	l0ner: OK, in kdelibs/dcop/dcopserver.cpp, comment out the HAVE_SYS_STAT_H #ifdef and #endif
kb9vqf	then try recomliling
kb9vqf	*recompiling
l0ner	kb9vqf: as for now it's compiling
l0ner	uh... error: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/454963/
l0ner	here is the cmake optput: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/454964/
kb9vqf	hmm
kb9vqf	obviously the header autodetection system is not working on your system
kb9vqf	l0ner: Ask on the mailing list with your logs
kb9vqf	I didn't write the CMake code for that function, and from what I can tell it should be working
kb9vqf	the only thing I can suggest is to look in the generated config.h file and make sure HAVE_SYS_STAT_H is set
l0ner	ok
kb9vqf	sorry I can't be of much more help here
l0ner	kb9vqf: no prob ;0
l0ner	* :)
l0ner	anyway, it seems that HAVE_SYS_STAT_H is set, i found it in the config.h file
l0ner	i will ask on dev mailing list
l0ner	kb9vqf: it will be better to send message to the developers list, or the users one?
kb9vqf	developers
kb9vqf	it may take some time too
l0ner	ok, thx. Sending now
kb9vqf	Serghei Amelian will know the most about CMake
l0ner	uh... my message wasn't delivered
kb9vqf	l0ner: Are you a list member?
l0ner	I subscribed before sending
kb9vqf	and did you get the confirmation message?
kb9vqf	for subscription that is
l0ner	yes
kb9vqf	where did you send you message to?
l0ner	trinity-devel@lists.pearsoncomputing.net
l0ner	but it tells me that only subscribers can send messages to the list
kb9vqf	which list did you subscribe to?
kb9vqf	you need to subscribe to trinity-devel
kb9vqf	not trinity-users
l0ner	and i subscribed by sending a empty mail to trinity-devel-subscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net
kb9vqf	what is your Email address?
l0ner	sh4dou@gmail.com
kb9vqf	l0ner: I manually added you
kb9vqf	you weren't subscribed
l0ner	ok, thx ;)
kb9vqf	np
l0ner	strange, since I recieved the confirmation mail
kb9vqf	I know
kb9vqf	sometimes weird things happen
kb9vqf	l0ner: you did respond to the confirmation email, right
kb9vqf	?
l0ner	yep
kb9vqf	huh
kb9vqf	oh well
kb9vqf	:)
l0ner	but now i got message from gmail that my message couldn't be sent
l0ner	maybe gmail webmail issues
kb9vqf	sounds like it
kb9vqf	that's why I don't question the failures
kb9vqf	it can fail at so many points
kb9vqf	and do so intermittently
l0ner	yes
kb9vqf	all I know is that my servers work :)
kb9vqf	it's up to everyone else's Email to work properly
l0ner	and the more complex the system is, the more it can broke
kb9vqf	yep
kb9vqf	Google does glitch from time to time
l0ner	normally i'd use some app for my mail, but right now i have clean gentoo, only with gnome, and I can't setup the evolution to work properely
* l0ner is thinking about getting some sleep
l0ner	well, I'll be back when when my actuall problem get resolved and I stumble over another ;P
l0ner	cy
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KingSphinx	Yay, Audacity seems to want to crash under Trinity...
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MutantTurkey	trying to do this all in a chroot :)
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KingSphinx	Is there any way to get Konqueror to use something besides KHTML or is that beyond the capabilities of this version of Konqueror?
kb9vqf	KHTMl is your only option
kb9vqf	I know the new one uses Webkit, but the new one is missing so many feature  that it is unusable IMHO
kb9vqf	kind of like comparing Trinity's Konqueror to the mac file browser
kb9vqf	besides, Chrome is faster ;-)
KingSphinx	Eh, kinda expected that. The current Konqueror IMO wasn't too bad as a web browser (KHTML's made a ton of steps forward), but it's sort of forgotten how to be a good file manager. Sort of the opposite of this version. :P
kb9vqf	yep
kb9vqf	so, use two separate apps
kb9vqf	let each be best for one thing for now :)
KingSphinx	Firefox does the job... plus it can actually save stuff. Chromium at the moment doesn't seem to want to let me save anything; it'll open up Nautilus' save dialog and whatnot, but it's not really saving anything because the download bar's not showing up.
KingSphinx	Not to mention Audacity seems to crash with kgtk-qt3 providing the open/save dialogs.
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MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: well I can test bugs now!
MutantTurkey	using rdesktop to my vps
kb9vqf	great! :)
kb9vqf	KingSphinx: I think that crash is fixed in SVN
MutantTurkey	so I will be hacking out bugs asap
kb9vqf	KingSphinx: if you are using 3.5.12 then I would expect the crash to exist
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: OK
kb9vqf	sounds very good
MutantTurkey	just trying to strip it down to help it run faster
MutantTurkey	over the network
MutantTurkey	so disabling stuff right now
MutantTurkey	looking back, the motif theme was just patheticly awful
MutantTurkey	frankly solaris and CDE all looked like crap... I mean it wasn't even simple it was just bad.
MutantTurkey	the themes were horrid
KingSphinx	I find a charm in the eye-gouging ugliness of it all.
MutantTurkey	KingSphinx: I prefer simple themes, yet i still am unhappy with every one i find
MutantTurkey	actually this one I am using now is great
KingSphinx	Isn't Trinity's default theme the same one used in Kubuntu Hardy?
KingSphinx	Just with a new wallpaper?
kb9vqf	yeo
kb9vqf	*yep
kb9vqf	BTW Trinity contains several simple themes
KingSphinx	Yeah, I know, I've gone through them :)
kb9vqf	do you like Windows 2000?
kb9vqf	thw widget theme that is
kb9vqf	*the
* kb9vqf can't type...again
MutantTurkey	light style 2 is my new fav
KingSphinx	I do like the style of Windows Classic (pretty much 95-2000), but not on my Linux partition. :P
MutantTurkey	I can't stand the new windows themes
MutantTurkey	the old ones I like due to simplicity
KingSphinx	It just doesn't look "right" having TDE look like old Windows...
kb9vqf	ah
kb9vqf	just curious
kb9vqf	personally I use Lipstik
kb9vqf	it's relatively light and gives lots of information when widgets are hovered upon, etc.
MutantTurkey	is bug 229 still valid? It seems this is already included..
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=229 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, REOPENED, include kickoff menu with trinity
kb9vqf	reopened?
kb9vqf	why?
kb9vqf	It's definitely there :)
MutantTurkey	yeah..
MutantTurkey	well robert left some message at the bottom
kb9vqf	oh
kb9vqf	great
kb9vqf	I don't support Kickoff
MutantTurkey	:P
kb9vqf	if he wants to fix it then he can be my guest :)
MutantTurkey	since it stinks...
MutantTurkey	its really counter intuitive and requires alot more thought.
kb9vqf	yes
kb9vqf	I hate it
kb9vqf	split the bug
MutantTurkey	mark as WONTFIX?
kb9vqf	create a new one for the Kickoff improvements, copy&paste his text, then mark this one closed
MutantTurkey	let me check them first
MutantTurkey	maybe an old probelm
KingSphinx	That said though (about the Redmond theme), it does do a good job replicating the Windows look.
kb9vqf	asteriod is much closer
MutantTurkey	redmond does a good job
kb9vqf	*asteroid
KingSphinx	I think KDE 4.8 might replace Kickoff with something else...
MutantTurkey	I can't get past nepomuk
MutantTurkey	it just kills me.
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: also make sure the new bug is marked lowest priority
kb9vqf	nepomuk STINKS
kb9vqf	there are parts of Windows I like
MutantTurkey	well most of his stuff works for me...
kb9vqf	but only up to Windows XP and the old interface
kb9vqf	(not the new "Crayola" one)
MutantTurkey	also, whats the state of our khtml?
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: Say so in the new bug report
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: Just as bad as ever
kb9vqf	it's a very low priority here
MutantTurkey	yes I assumed so
MutantTurkey	we are going to do a -> webkit right?
kb9vqf	as we have a handful of good web browsers available
KingSphinx	And I'm guessing unlikely to get any better?
MutantTurkey	tqt interface to webkit. :P
kb9vqf	firefox, chrome, opera, etc.
kb9vqf	eventually a KHTML->Webkit transition is planned, but I haven't even started
MutantTurkey	I love webkit (i have my own gtk webkit browser)
kb9vqf	volunteers are welcome :)
kb9vqf	actually as soon as we get completely off the Qt namespace we can integrate Webkit
kb9vqf	as the code is TQt ported we are very close
kb9vqf	to getting off the Qt namespace that is :)_
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: looks like his remarks are invalid.
MutantTurkey	none seem to apply for me
kb9vqf	ok...but that still doesn't make the fact that he posted to a substantially different bug any better :-P
MutantTurkey	I am going to close it.
kb9vqf	mark it closed, mention that it works for you, and remind him that a new bug report should be filed
MutantTurkey	yep
kb9vqf	thanks
MutantTurkey	just did that exactly
kb9vqf	ah, good, you can be trained :))
KingSphinx	(yeah, still talking themes for the moment) Oddly, I find that the older KDE themes (oh-so-creatively titled "KDE 1" and "KDE 2") have a charm to their simplicity... just switched to KDE 2's look/icons. :)
MutantTurkey	how do we mark closed? resolved...?
kb9vqf	well, that's why I kept them around
kb9vqf	they are only a few Kb in size anyway
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: Resolved Fixed
MutantTurkey	okay all done
MutantTurkey	are we going to ever get bugwatch@pearsoncomputing to foreward to the ML? if you care enough
MutantTurkey	or if you even wanted to. I know I mentioned it
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kb9vqf	ohhh...oops
kb9vqf	I forgot entirely
MutantTurkey	:))
kb9vqf	hmmm
kb9vqf	I don't even want to think about that right now, but....
* kb9vqf sets a sticky note for himself
kb9vqf	not sure if we want to flood the devel list with that stuff
kb9vqf	but a new list might be good
kb9vqf	trinity-bugs or something
MutantTurkey	good call
kb9vqf	and maybe one more...trinity-commits
kb9vqf	for when we move to GIT
MutantTurkey	I think you can do like weekly commit digests
* kb9vqf does not know how :P
kb9vqf	but that is in the future
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: Can you watch for kcrash actually generating a backtrace?
MutantTurkey	I haven't had anything crash.
kb9vqf	for some reason on my testing machine kcrash always comes up with "invalid backgrace"
kb9vqf	*backtrace
kb9vqf	and it is good that nothing crashed for you :)
MutantTurkey	I need to crash something.
kb9vqf	but I just want to make sure kcrash still works
kb9vqf	make sure you have the Trinity debug symbols and gdb installed before you try it of course :)
MutantTurkey	I probably need to go to bed actually :[
MutantTurkey	which is really annoying because I am so excited I have trinity running!
MutantTurkey	its like 3:20am...
kb9vqf	so...do you like it so far?
MutantTurkey	of course I do!
kb9vqf	glad to hear it :))
MutantTurkey	a few minor gripes
kb9vqf	file bug reports and fix them :)
kb9vqf	j/k ... well ... sort of ...
MutantTurkey	well there are plenty of bugs to work with as of now
MutantTurkey	I consider my self the bug admin ninja
MutantTurkey	I am swooping down on easy to fix ones and knocking them out
MutantTurkey	the administrative work of moving bugs and checking them out. leaving the coding to you :D
MutantTurkey	I actually tried to dig into kmail and almost passed out.
MutantTurkey	I am reading through a dcop vs dbus page now
kb9vqf	yeah, kinda nasty isn't it (kmail)
kb9vqf	dcop is here to stay BTW
MutantTurkey	Its a very large source
kb9vqf	it can do things that dbus can't
MutantTurkey	really?
kb9vqf	and dbus can do things that dcop can't
MutantTurkey	hurm
kb9vqf	so they need each other
MutantTurkey	okay well actually either way I don't care
kb9vqf	it's all backend stuff anyway
kb9vqf	and dcop has never given me problems
MutantTurkey	understood
kb9vqf	stay away from kdepim
MutantTurkey	scary?
kb9vqf	I am probably one of the only people on the planet that understand it
MutantTurkey	oh godness
MutantTurkey	I am going to stick with easier things then :)
kb9vqf	you will be happier :)
kb9vqf	fortunately kdepim is quite stable
kb9vqf	only a few niggling issues
MutantTurkey	my favorite thing about trinity
MutantTurkey	is that it is tried and tested of a long period of time
MutantTurkey	very stable in that sense
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: what is kio_http?
kb9vqf	it is the ioslave used to get http data
MutantTurkey	okay
kb9vqf	I believe it calls in KHTML to display it
MutantTurkey	with gnome3 failing miserably and calls for gnome2 forks, and the upcoming release, its a perfect time to fill the void
kb9vqf	yep
kb9vqf	which is why I'm not futzing with Qt4
kb9vqf	since we absorbed Qt3 I see no reason to switch at this time
MutantTurkey	my hope is to eventually use trinity as my control desktop for my studio
kb9vqf	Qt3 has a LOT of life left in it, especially once we get off the Qt namespace
MutantTurkey	what is the "Qt namespace"
MutantTurkey	I don't get it :P
kb9vqf	first some history :)
kb9vqf	C/C++ uses symbol lookups to get the correct functions within a dhared library
MutantTurkey	KSirc is nice! well much nicer than kivrc.
kb9vqf	they look up by name
MutantTurkey	right, that is familiar
kb9vqf	ksirc is Trinity?
MutantTurkey	no idea. somehow i have it.
kb9vqf	ah
MutantTurkey	I think it must be
MutantTurkey	anyway back to Qt namesparce
kb9vqf	yes it is
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	basically, Qt3 cannot be compiled in with Qt4 in the same program for one reason alone:
kb9vqf	the symbol names would be identical, and the linker would have no idea which version to use
kb9vqf	e.g. QWidget::show()
kb9vqf	Qt3 or Qt4?
kb9vqf	data objects
kb9vqf	QWidget: which one?
kb9vqf	etc.
MutantTurkey	thats terrible
kb9vqf	That collection of classes is referred to as a namespace
MutantTurkey	right
MutantTurkey	so now they all use what instead?
kb9vqf	well, not exactly, but I'm saying it is :)
kb9vqf	so if we use TQWidget, TQObject, etc. we can have Qt3 and Qt4 coexist perfectly
kb9vqf	technically it would then be TQt3 and Qt4 :)
kb9vqf	you could say we moved our namespace from Qt to TQt
kb9vqf	no more symbol clashes
kb9vqf	that also would allow us to use pure Qt4 code where needed
kb9vqf	within Trinity
kb9vqf	e.g. :drumroll: Webkit!
MutantTurkey	but for regular users... no difference
MutantTurkey	or while compiling?
kb9vqf	exactly
kb9vqf	no difference at all, not even when compiling (except that they need to install TQt3, not Qt3)
MutantTurkey	so from the other side, the distro ecosystem
kb9vqf	but we are paving the way now with Qt3 in our GIT tree
MutantTurkey	all they need to do is pull upstream
kb9vqf	yep
MutantTurkey	(us)
MutantTurkey	hrm
MutantTurkey	have you talked to any distros yet?
kb9vqf	nope
kb9vqf	not going to either
MutantTurkey	okay
kb9vqf	not yet
MutantTurkey	understood
kb9vqf	as far as I'm concerned if Trinity is the last Qt3 app then we can absorb Qt3 without anyone even caring
kb9vqf	then Qt3 just becomes part of kdelibs
kb9vqf	so to speak
kb9vqf	and Trinity should be treated as a pure X application
kb9vqf	as the only hooks lower than Qt3 are to XLib and friends
kb9vqf	make sense?
kb9vqf	Qt3 still can't be beat for speed
MutantTurkey	Qt3 is faster than qt4 assumed
kb9vqf	assumed?
kb9vqf	try it :)
MutantTurkey	I haven't seen benchmarks :P
kb9vqf	it is much slower in GFX
MutantTurkey	but same goes for gtk1x and gtk2
kb9vqf	partially due to the new double buffering, etc.
kb9vqf	(which can't be turned off...grr....)
MutantTurkey	annoying
kb9vqf	it's a memory pig
kb9vqf	the classes are smaller, meaning more code goes into the end application
kb9vqf	it's good for many smaller apps, but NOT GOOD for a full desktop IMHO
MutantTurkey	everything new is a memory pig
MutantTurkey	though kde3 isn't exactly the most conservative :P
kb9vqf	and you've seen some of the other fun with the QString to double conversions
MutantTurkey	yeah I've seen it.
kb9vqf	it's an unstable mess
kb9vqf	like I said, great for a lot of apps
kb9vqf	but for huge apps it's a royal pain
MutantTurkey	i mean, that's something so basic... it should even be a problem.
kb9vqf	I know
kb9vqf	now figure how many similar problems there are in codepaths that aren't commonly used on mobile telephones...
kb9vqf	:yikes:
kb9vqf	Qt3 is STABLE
kb9vqf	kind of like Xlib
MutantTurkey	Xlib is terrible though :P
kb9vqf	Yes it is
MutantTurkey	have you seen xcb?
kb9vqf	?
MutantTurkey	it's awesome
MutantTurkey	it's the new (actually like 2006ish)
MutantTurkey	standard
MutantTurkey	X C Bindings, wayy faster.
kb9vqf	ah
kb9vqf	no, not really
MutantTurkey	frankly I hate the whole X11 stack
MutantTurkey	i think it doesn't make sense for a desktop
kb9vqf	not sure
MutantTurkey	the server/client nature of it was good in 1985 with one mainframe.
kb9vqf	especially with the trend towards mainframes again
MutantTurkey	good point
kb9vqf	BTW xcb is not always faster http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xcb/2009-February/004321.html
kb9vqf	It's one of Qt4's problems :P
MutantTurkey	interesting
MutantTurkey	I still think xlib is a PITA
kb9vqf	and Qt3 abstracts us from that
kb9vqf	I say stick with the tried and true for something as basic as a desktop
kb9vqf	unless you don't have the features needed
kb9vqf	which I have yet to come across
kb9vqf	leave the experimentation to video games and apps that *need* that much power
kb9vqf	and the risk of instability
MutantTurkey	right
kb9vqf	*at
MutantTurkey	I wish we had something like mac or windows, the video component in the kernel
MutantTurkey	many people are warey of it
kb9vqf	we're getting there
kb9vqf	kms
MutantTurkey	I know
kb9vqf	looks good to me
MutantTurkey	http://microxwin.com
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MutantTurkey	kernel module x server
kb9vqf	page is down
* l0ner is watching silently
MutantTurkey	performance is crazy better
kb9vqf	actually I use the nvidia open source driver
kb9vqf	works well for me *and* I get full XRandR 1.2 support
MutantTurkey	intel has great support  luckily
kb9vqf	yes
MutantTurkey	i guess its because it's so simple... :P
kb9vqf	Intel is very good there
MutantTurkey	no performance, but all the stability
kb9vqf	hey...it runs Compiz!
kb9vqf	yes
kb9vqf	a workhorse for business
kb9vqf	actually I'd prefer that
kb9vqf	once you go to the Quadro series though NVidia is pretty good
MutantTurkey	alright almost 4am... need to sleep :P
kb9vqf	yep
kb9vqf	me too
MutantTurkey	luckily I have the afternoon shift tomorrow. 1pm!
MutantTurkey	so still a good 8 hours of sleep
l0ner	so, form whats is written on the microxwin page, it can be easily used as a replacement for x11?
MutantTurkey	l0ner: with some work
MutantTurkey	I have run it following his instructions
MutantTurkey	basically the problem is that it is a closed source kernel module
MutantTurkey	(which isn't that ridiculous, seeing as we have plenty of binay driver blobs)
l0ner	yes
MutantTurkey	but the theory is there.
MutantTurkey	if only someone would make an open source version of it.
l0ner	but because of that it wont get mainstream
MutantTurkey	If i win lottery, I am purchasing it from him.
MutantTurkey	:p
l0ner	good luck ;)
l0ner	but i have seen somewere something like that
MutantTurkey	anyway
l0ner	don't remember where tho
MutantTurkey	I am going to sleep.
l0ner	g'nite ;)
MutantTurkey	I'll talk to you all tomorrow sometime actually thurdsay probably.
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l0ner	it's strange, people goes tho sleep when I have just woken up
* l0ner blames(?) TMZ difference
tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 487 filed by humanreadable@yahoo.com.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=487 normal, P2, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, KPDF Page Scrolling Broken When Using Keyboard
tbottu	10kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net changed the Status on bug 485 from NEW to RESOLVED FIXED.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=485 needs packaging, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, kbookreader needs packaging
tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 488 filed by remibouhl@gmail.com.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=488 minor, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, kolourpaint, okular (maybe others) are frozen by defuncted SSHFS mount.
tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 489 filed by raevynsrequiem@gmail.com.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=489 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, Pidgin Fails to launch
tbottu	10kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net changed the Status on bug 489 from NEW to RESOLVED FIXED.
tbottu	10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 484 from NEW to RESOLVED FIXED.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=484 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, Qt3 needs patching to build under ARM
tbottu	10kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net changed the Status on bug 253 from NEW to RESOLVED FIXED.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=253 minor, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, Radio buttons and check boxes  do not display properly when toggled
tbottu	10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 408 from kdeutils to debian.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=408 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Conflict, when install basket from KDE4 and from trinity in debian squeeze
tbottu	10robxu9@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 459 from NEW to RESOLVED FIXED.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=459 blocker, P1, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, Detecting $KDEHOME to avoid conflicts with KDE3 and KDE4
tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 490 filed by sh4dou@gmail.com.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=490 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, adding support for PulseAudio application volume control
tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 491 filed by sh4dou@gmail.com.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=491 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Desktop panel auto length
tbottu	10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 229 from REOPENED to RESOLVED FIXED.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=229 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, include kickoff menu with trinity
tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 492 filed by kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=492 blocker, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, kdmctl cannot parse active sessions
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KingSphinx	I'm running update-manager to upgrade Trinity to 11.04, but I have a few concerns before I start the upgrade...
KingSphinx	kde-guidance-kde3, kde-guidance-powermanager-kde3, openoffice.org-kde3, guidance-backends-kde3 and python-kde3-kde3 want to be removed. Are any of these essential?
Piki	KingSphinx: i don't use ubuntu, so i can't help, but if nobody answers soon, the best thing to do would be to back up your data before upgrading
KingSphinx	That's fine, I can wait for someone to help. Plus my /home's on a separate partition, so I can just reinstall if something goes wrong.
Piki	the best suggestion i have there is to see if there are tde equivalents. openoffice.org-kde and python-kde3 shouldn't be needed, those are just extensions, and powermanager should only be needed for laptops or changing cpu frequencies if the cpu supports that
Piki	not sure about the others
Xu_R	meepmeep
Xu_R	hey Piki, KingSphinx
Xu_R	KingSphinx: only up to 11.04 if you want to use nightly builds... heh... heh... d:
Xu_R	*D:
Xu_R	looks like tbottu is working again... after a momentarily spaz in bug reports...
kb9vqf	those were all the bug reports that were queued up
kb9vqf	I didn't realize the but watch account was blocked until last night :-/
kb9vqf	*bug
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Xu_R	:-\
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Xu_R	kb9vqf: hey, I just noticed something
Xu_R	ah, damnit, I missed
Xu_R	I feel happy for openSUSE now :D
KingSphinx	Why? Did Trinity get ported to it?
Xu_R	well, KDE3 is back in the main distribution (aka, again supported)
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Xu_R	I'm the one that's supposed to be porting it to SuSE, so I better work fast XD
* Xu_R notes however that real-life work is catching up with him...
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MT	kb9vqf: hey
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MT	is bug 365 valid?
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=365 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, GPG Key and Repositories not Accessible
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KingSphinx	Well, Unity installed without much trouble. Only major issue seems to be that the Ubuntu Software Center doesn't seem to want to install stuff; apt-get is a workaround though.
MT	I dont like Ubuntu
MT	they have like 150000 ways to access packaging
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KingSphinx	"If one breaks, there's another way to get around it" is how I see it
mutantturkey	kb9vqf: I also closed bug 322
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=322 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, kdegraphics build warnings
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mutantturkey	yeah... arch has one that never breaks :D
KingSphinx	Just curious... are you using Trinity in Arch? Didn't think there was an "official" build for that yet...
mutantturkey	I am working on it. progress has slowed.
KingSphinx	Ah
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KingSphinx	Great... I have no sound at all. Not even in Trinity now.
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Xu_R	DX
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backwoodsman	anyone awake?
backwoodsman	anyone know if the Maverick install instructions will work on Natty?
mutantturkey	hey
mutantturkey	I think on the hone page there is a news bulletin about natty
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KingSphinx	Alright, got my sound back... at least for now. :)
Qu4Z	Yay!
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MutantTurkey	saw a trinity mention on reddit yesterday
MutantTurkey	the one complaint: debian only
MutantTurkey	so geting more distros on it would be great in terms of opening it up
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MTurkey	kb9vqf: did you see why
MTurkey	what I said yesterday
MTurkey	I LT was about a bug
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l0ner	Just an idea: could someone add informations that compilation of qt3 from your git is required to compile tqt? and how-to would be nice too.
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Xu_R	kb9vqf: I can't push to tde-packaging
Xu_R	error: no DAV locking support
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MutantTurkey	o/
kb9vqf	huh?
MutantTurkey	what's up?
kb9vqf	Xu_R: How did you check out that repository?
kb9vqf	sounds like you used the wrong URL
Xu_R	kb9vqf: nope, used the right URL
kb9vqf	which was?
Xu_R	error: no DAV locking support on http://rxu@scm.trinitydesktop.org/scm/git/tde-packaging/
Xu_R	fatal: git-http-push failed
kb9vqf	ah
Xu_R	or... i'm sure that's the right url ^^"
kb9vqf	I just committed some stuff of my own earlier today
kb9vqf	so it *should* be working
kb9vqf	I assume you are doing "git push origin master"?
Xu_R	yup
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: just letting you know I'll be gone till sunday. but in case the world ends or anything I have email where i'm at
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Does it ask for a password then fail, or does it fail before the password?
kb9vqf	ok
Xu_R	asks for a password twice then fails
kb9vqf	sounds like a wrong password
Xu_R	pretty sure it isn't...
kb9vqf	well it works for me...
kb9vqf	can you check out a new copy with the same password?
Xu_R	trying...
Xu_R	yea, that same password works
kb9vqf	very odd
kb9vqf	let me try checking something in
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Works for me :-/
Xu_R	D:
Xu_R	I'll try again :-\
kb9vqf	Xu_R You don't have write access
kb9vqf	did you cange your password yet?
kb9vqf	*change
Xu_R	I changed my password already...
Xu_R	twice...
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	I never granted you access
Xu_R	>_>"
kb9vqf	because I didn't know it had been changed yet
kb9vqf	the default is not secure...
Xu_R	ah...
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Fixed :)
Xu_R	:D
kb9vqf	don't you hate git's obscure error messages though?
Xu_R	guess so :-\
Xu_R	but a google search came a bit closer :P
Xu_R	pushed some stuff :D
kb9vqf	looking good...though I admit I don't know much about the RPM build process ;-)
Xu_R	hehe ;P and I admit I have no clue about debian packaging
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Xu_R	kb9vqf: do you think it's ok if I start naming packages like tde-kdelibs instead of kdelibs3 or kdelibs-trinity?
kb9vqf	how about tdelibs
kb9vqf	the -trinity extension in Ubuntu/Debian is legacy ;-)
Xu_R	just start replacing kde with tde now?
kb9vqf	go ahead since you are starting anew
Xu_R	ah, ok. because I was thinking that might not be what you would like :)
kb9vqf	Debian/Ubuntu is a bit trickier because of the relatively long history
kb9vqf	people are used to searching for *-trinity
kb9vqf	or *-kde3
Xu_R	ah, true
kb9vqf	I don't want to keep "kde" in the names if we don't have to
Xu_R	ok
tbottu	10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 322 from NEW to RESOLVED FIXED.
kb9vqf	grr, bugwatch stalled again
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=322 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, kdegraphics build warnings
tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 493 filed by kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=493 needs packaging, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, kkbswitch needs packaging
Xu_R	tbottu doesn't like bugwatch very much...
tbottu	Xu_R: Error: "doesn't" is not a valid command.
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tbottu	10kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net changed the Status on bug 100 from UNCONFIRMED to NEEDINFO.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=100 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEEDINFO, Keyboard layout switcher does not work
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mturkey	hey there
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sinedeviance	hi all! i was wondering if any of you know how large trinity-desktop is installed?
sinedeviance	i am asking because i have a debian server that i have installed it onto. my / partition only has the base system, mysql/apache2/php, htop, and trinity-desktop installed, but for some reason my partition is showing 4.5gb of usage. this seems really strange
sinedeviance	if nobody knows, can you tell me how to completely remove trinity-desktop so i can check my partition size after removal and then reinstall?
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kb9vqf	Xu_R|ZNC: can you take a look at Bug 100 if you have time?
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=100 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEEDINFO, Keyboard layout switcher does not work
kb9vqf	it sounds simple enough to fix
kb9vqf	(though I would definitely verify that it is still present in the latest SVN before working on it)
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tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 494 filed by nick@leverton.org.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=494 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, nspluginviewer fix in r1224648 fails with Adobe flash 10.3 and flash 11beta
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tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 495 filed by ogldelphi@mail.ru.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=495 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, add DSL support in knetworkmanager
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Xu_R	hey MutantTurkey
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MutantTurkey	hey just got back
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Xu_R	!seen kb9vqf
tbottu	Xu_R: kb9vqf was last seen in #trinity-desktop 1 day, 12 hours, 4 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <kb9vqf> (though I would definitely verify that it is still present in the latest SVN before working on it)
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Aristide	Hi ! ^^
Aristide	Do you have a repositories for SUSE ?
Xu_R	not yet D:
* Xu_R is working on his spare time to bring them to SuSE
Aristide	Ok :)
Xu_R	I suggest you use KDE:KDE3 for now though.
Xu_R	(or XFCE ;P)
Aristide	KDE:KDE3 ...
Aristide	Ok
Aristide	Xu_R: So, can i install KDE3 without uninstall KDE4 ?
Xu_R	Aristide: yes. Both can be installed side by side
Aristide	Yes
Aristide	YES !
Aristide	I go try to install it o/
Xu_R	:D
Xu_R	There's still an active opensuse-kde3 mailing list~~
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a^phorce	l
tbottu	10ogldelphi@mail.ru changed the Status on bug 42 from NEEDINFO to CONFIRMED.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=42 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, CONFIRMED, gtk-qt-engine-kde3 does not work properly
tbottu	10ogldelphi@mail.ru changed the Status on bug 429 from NEEDINFO to UNCONFIRMED.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=429 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, UNCONFIRMED, Kicker crashes because of Esc key
tbottu	10ogldelphi@mail.ru changed the Status on bug 429 from UNCONFIRMED to NEEDINFO.
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MutantTurkey	hey all
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tbottu	10kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net changed the Status on bug 492 from NEW to RESOLVED FIXED.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=492 blocker, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, kdmctl cannot parse active sessions
ab__	you guys are awesome
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Xu_R	!seen kb9vqf
tbottu	Xu_R: kb9vqf was last seen in #trinity-desktop 2 days, 18 hours, 54 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <kb9vqf> (though I would definitely verify that it is still present in the latest SVN before working on it)
Xu_R	darn it, where is he...
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l0ner	Xu_R: No prob ;)
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Xu_R	l0ner: :D
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tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 496 filed by ogldelphi@mail.ru.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=496 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, knetworkmanager-trinity 3.5.12 doesn't work with TDE 3.5.13
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MutantTurkey	o/
MutantTurkey	Xu_R: saw your page on the etherpad about converting to nightly builds
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: nice
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MutantTurkey	Xu_R: also i email tim with an updated relatedproject.php
MutantTurkey	added qt3 into it
MutantTurkey	is that good you thjink?
Xu_R	probably a good idea, since we became upstream...
MutantTurkey	supossedly :P
Xu_R	hehe
tbottu	10kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net changed the Status on bug 496 from NEW to RESOLVED INVALID.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=496 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED INVALID, knetworkmanager-trinity 3.5.12 doesn't work with TDE 3.5.13
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Space_Man	what is best distro to use that is up to date and uses fglrx?
Space_Man	or has an easy method to install fglrx?
Xu_R	ubuntu + derivatives, or maybe ATi's repo for openSUSE... iouno truthfully. my ATi card is on windows ;P
Space_Man	I was thinking about ubuntu, but how do you install the latest version (11.04) with trinity?
Space_Man	mint debian is another option
Xu_R	use maverick builds for now, unless you want to use nightly ;P
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Piki	hi
strangelv	:: had dependancy problems trying to install TDE Meerkat packages to a Natty USB drive
strangelv	"Hello
strangelv	So I'm not suer if Meekrkat packages work with Natty right now
strangelv	"This was al/slo sthe 32 bit version, which I don't normally use
* strangelv 's subnotebook/netbook has a 32 bit Centaur CPU
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Xu_R	strangelv: really? D:
Xu_R	you wanna try nightly? it's pretty broken, and there's no meta packages, but it's worth a shot if you know what to install ;P
strangelv	"I might try that sometime, although it was mostly an expecriment.  The amin thing I needed to do was reset my clock to before 2002 so fsck wouldn't freak out and prevent mounting of any HD partitions
strangelv	"I set it to 2 January 1970
strangelv	"Up and running right now; may need to repat the exercise if the CMOS doesn't keep enough of a charge.  Teed ot buyp a new battery for it.
* strangelv is too close to falling asleep to ask forl directions for nightly
strangelv	"My new hardware problem is a monitor that doesn't seem to work with anything newer than Jaunty
Xu_R	:-\
Xu_R	go to sleep, figure it out in the morning.
strangelv	It's always been delicat eand prone to showing me a screen consitting of a red rectangle with OUT OF RANGE in screaming capitals
strangelv	"I tried installing Meerkat server, and it goes out of range on text.  Linux always changes the text mode a couple of seconds into initialization.  That text mode change sends it out of bounds
strangelv	"Basically, it's completely unusable as a bench display
* strangelv 's effort to get back up to speed in Python with a wiki page cerating script at least is going okay, not that he's aware of anything that TDE needs scripted in Python
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Piki	hi
Xu_R	hello Piki
Piki	hi Xu_R
Xu_R	anything new?
Piki	nope
Piki	trying to see if BQ is alive. she's apparently online, just not in any channels according to her /whois
Xu_R	well, she's been busy lately
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Piki	that was dumb :-(
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Xu_R	accidental exiting?
Piki	Xu_R: incorrect comman, typed /quit instead of /part
Xu_R	nice.
Piki	so konversation stayed open, but i d/ced from freenode
Xu_R	I know what /quit is xP
Piki	some clients actually quit instead of just d/cing :-)
Xu_R	i know, but I'm talking standard behavior :P
Xu_R	have you started packaging Trinity for ark?
Piki	i'm waiting for bero to put out an iso with recent packages included
Piki	manually upgrading packages via command line seems to be causing a lot of issues for me
Piki	and AFAIK bero hasn't fixed zypper/apt-rpm
Xu_R	Piki: you don't need to test the spec files right away - just write them out based on the old ones
Xu_R	you can test them when a new iso comes out
Piki	i know, i prefer to do the packages when i do the specs
Piki	i don't know why, just feels more comfortable for my work flow
Xu_R	Piki: yea... I know how it feels, but it's going to be a time waster... easier to take the old srpms, unrpm them, mod the spec, and then test later
Piki	we've wasted a lot of time already, and it's looking like we're not releasing any time soon :-)
Xu_R	where did you get that?
Xu_R	we're only stuck on bug fixing?
Piki	i'm talking ark
Xu_R	ah, ark.
Piki	we used to do a release every year, our last release was in 2008, and bero's taking his time with the new iso
Xu_R	I may have a solution to ark's rpm problem (thanks, jbj) but from therein I don't know.
Piki	rpm works fine in ark, we just need to either a) setup apt-rpm5, or b) finish porting zypper to rpm5
Xu_R	oh, oops. s/rpm/zypper
Piki	the problem i'm having with manually upgrading is a bad package from bero
Piki	Xu_R: hmm?
Xu_R	I meant I have a solution to libzypp/libsatsolver/zypper...
Piki	ok
Xu_R	(courtesy of Yacto/Poky Linux)
Piki	ok
Xu_R	Piki: oh, and btw, we migrated SVN.td to GIT.td
Xu_R	Piki: git.trinitydesktop.org
* Xu_R guesses you already knew that anyway
Piki	Xu_R: you can email the solution to bero@arklinux.org, he seems to have fixed the mail server to forward to the correct email
Piki	no, i didn't know
Xu_R	Piki: I know his email address, just need to make sure he's actually there ;P
Piki	haven't been paying much attention lately, haven't spent as much time as usual at the computer (no reason, really, just been stressed out lately)
Piki	Xu_R: his email wasn't working, it existed on arklinux.org and the mail server works correctly, but he was having it forward to his work email, which he had to change when he got his new job, and it works now
Xu_R	Piki: I knew about it. I know he email address has been working for a while now - I emailed him last month or so and he responded right away.
Xu_R	it's bero@arklinux.ch
Piki	that too
Piki	i normally send it to .org, but the mail server can use both .org and .ch
Piki	was my version control access migrated from svn to git
Piki	?
Xu_R	Piki: no, you need a new account
Xu_R	Piki: in addition, no data was kept on the migration
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Piki	Xu_R: no biggie, i didn't upload anything important
Piki	i guess i need to email tim?
Xu_R	yea.
Piki	email sent
Piki	being that i'm new to git, i need to ask, would the command be "git clone something"?
Piki	for a checkout?
Xu_R	well, yes
Xu_R	except GIT doesn't do checkouts, it's cloning
Xu_R	because GIT essentially downloads the whole repo to your folder
Piki	what's the clone url for tde-packaging?
Xu_R	you'll get it with your account info
Piki	ok
Xu_R	because your clone url needs to have your username in it
Piki	how do i commit?
Xu_R	you know what, let me just put a readme file at the root of the repo so that it's easy to get adjusted
Piki	ok
Xu_R	Piki: I made the README, it should show up
Piki	ok
Xu_R	yup, it showed up now
Piki	just read it, i'll probably be referring to it a lot until i get used to git :-)
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Xu_R	it's really not that different
Xu_R	damnit. hold on, restarting XChat
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Xu_R	back
Piki	ok O.o
* Xu_R actually restarted XChat - ZNC just keeps me online
Piki	znc?
Xu_R	yea
Piki	never heard of it
Xu_R	znc, bnc, etc... let's you exit your client but keeps you connected and logs while you're not connected
Piki	is it like where i have a desktop running an irc client with my nick connected, then i can, e.g. use my laptop to connect to the desktop via my local router and attach the client on my laptop to the irc connection already on the desktop?
Xu_R	Piki: yea. you can have no clients or you can 10 clients
Xu_R	you'll still be logged in
Piki	i've also heard of people running a client like irssi in a screen session to remain connected, and they can detach from screen whenever they're leaving the computer
Xu_R	yea, that's possible.
ar	Xu_R: all you can the the better thing and run irssi in tmux/screen
Xu_R	ar: I already have ZNC set up, and it served me well, especially in china, where you can't use ssh.
Xu_R	I'll stick with my ZNC ^^
ar	Xu_R: you can't?
ar	that's interesting
Xu_R	ar: nope. cryptography like ssh is banned in china. the biggest PITA ever.
Xu_R	closest thing to that is webssh, and that is pretty terrible. most websshs are blocked by the great firewall, too.
ar	i'm running my own "webssh" on my own server
Piki	webssh is just ssh through a web browser, still cryptography :-)
ar	http://code.google.com/p/shellinabox/
Xu_R	ar: if only (i didn't have a freaking DSL connection)
Xu_R	Piki: easier than getting portblocked from everywhere. damn ISP.
Piki	Xu_R: i need to use webssh and webchat at the local community college, they like knowing exactly what we're doing :-)
Piki	if only i could use an ssh tunnel from behind their firewall :-(
Piki	but port 22 is blocked, and i'm pretty sure they block the port i use for ssh on my server
Xu_R	ok, let me try this again. they blocked freenode in china. they blocked ssh ports. they can detect VPN connections and kill them.
ar	i also have a nice hack on my server
ar	if i hit a special url via https, the next connection from my current ip gets passed to openvpn instead of httpd
Xu_R	ar: wow, nice
ar	nothing special. just a simple cgi script with extra permisions and a bit of iptables magic
Xu_R	not bad.
ar	had an idea about actually making it a proper webapp with "special urls" being usable only once and randomly generated
ar	but, as always, time's an issue
Xu_R	always is
Xu_R	detach #opensuse-buildservice
Xu_R	eek, oops.
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Xu_R	scheduled a bug day (august meeting) for next tuesday
Xu_R	this was long overdue.
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Qu4Z	Hm... are there any plans to fix konqueror's file browsing ability? It used to be half decent, now it's decidedly sub-par. Which is a shame, 'cause it's an awesome program.
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Piki	hi
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Xu_R	why hello thar people
Space_Man	hi Piki, Xu_R
Xu_R	hey Space_Man
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strangelv	Qu4Z: what seems to be broken?
strangelv	"...and what are you running
strangelv	:: isn't have thourble, but he's still running Meerkat TDE Kubuntu
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tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 497 filed by kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=497 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, run dialog enhancement
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MutantTurkey	Xu_R: ilya said he has patches for hal?
MutantTurkey	thats aweome
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: he claims that.
Xu_R	but I haven't seen anything to indicate that
Xu_R	in fact, he was asking about reincluding HAL into factory, so I think he's just making that up in the end.
* Xu_R notes that I may have missed something
Xu_R	yea, Ilya seems to be bragging.
Xu_R	The closest I can come to what he says is some udev rules about automounting
Xu_R	(and that has nothing to do with integration with KDE3)
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MutantTurkey	okay.
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KingSphinx	Assuming packages aren't ready in time for Ocelot, will upgrading to 11.10 be the same situation as the 10.10-11.04 deal or will additonal steps need to be taken?
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tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 498 filed by ogldelphi@mail.ru.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=498 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, moreblue-orbit-moodin doesn't look correct on widescreen
tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 499 filed by nick@leverton.org.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=499 minor, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Knotes resizing corner doesn't always activate on focus
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tbottu	10kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net changed the Status on bug 499 from NEW to RESOLVED FIXED.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=499 minor, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, Knotes resizing corner doesn't always activate on focus
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Space_Man	woo hoo, I'm now using trinity 3.5.12 but what has happened to knemo and kdegames?
Space_Man	installed kubuntu 10.10 and then upgraded to 11.04
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tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 500 filed by kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=500 needs packaging, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Add window docking application to Trinity
tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 501 filed by e_r_i_c@gmx.net.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=501 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Sylpheed 3.0.2 crashes on saving an attachment
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tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 502 filed by ogldelphi@mail.ru.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=502 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, backport dolphin kde4 "show some pics from a directory on folder icon" feature
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MutantTurkey	jumpship: I put down 20
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MutantTurkey	storms...
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cpatrick08	hi
MutantTurkey	hi!
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cpatrick08	sorry about that printscreen was putting alot of screens out
cpatrick08	i love this os so much good job
jumpship	Yeah, it's nice to see someone take this on, these guys are gods in my book
cpatrick08	now if somebody could fork gnome 2 then both gnome 3 and kde 4 haters would be happy
Qu4Z	Mentioning Gnome in a kde channel... you're trading on dangerous ground :P
Qu4Z	*treading
cpatrick08	yea
jumpship	I think the Gnome2 crowd might be happy with XFCE, I didn't care for either, but XFCE seemed pretty similar to Gnome2 (or at least on it's way there)
cpatrick08	true
Qu4Z	But you're right. What is it with DE developers and suddenly going off and doing their own completely useless thing :/
cpatrick08	it looks like it is for tablets just like unity looks like it is for tablets also
jumpship	but without Trinity I'd have been left in the cold when Debian moved to KDE4
Qu4Z	Tablets are overrated
jumpship	I think they got bored
cpatrick08	yea Tablets are overrated
Qu4Z	I'd buy one if it came with a wallmount and a dvi port and I could use it as an extra monitor for my desktop, though :P
jumpship	I'm only interested when a cell or similar service lets me connect it live to my desktop
cpatrick08	the only touch thing i like is the ipod touch
Qu4Z	I dunno. I think if I could use it as a monitor most of the time, sync files to it wirelessly, and then take it with me when I left I'd be vaguely interested.
jumpship	like a mobile thin client
Qu4Z	jumpship: My concern there would be latency
Qu4Z	Unresponsive interfaces are a PITA
jumpship	sure, the tech isn't there yet, and the services seem to be moving to wrong way
Qu4Z	Yeah, if it were responsive, that'd be awesome.
cpatrick08	that is true
jumpship	even being able to do it over wifi around the house would be nice, but the price is too high for what I want right now
cpatrick08	yea tablets do cost alot
Qu4Z	Well, if it were usable as a monitor the rest of the time that'd offset the cost a bit for me, I think.
Qu4Z	But yes, they're friggin' expensive.
jumpship	I'd really like a modular mobile setup, sorta like how open a desktop is, but portable
jumpship	I would spend the money on a tablet if I could find one with a line in for audio, for less than $400, but I havn't see one yet
cpatrick08	the Coby Kyros MID7015 7-Inch Android has that for less than $200 http://www.amazon.com/Coby-MID7015-Android-Internet-Touchscreen/dp/B0047Q9GT4
cpatrick08	it has a hdmi slot and a usb 2.0 slot
Qu4Z	I really want to just take a subset of my PC with me :P
Qu4Z	Like, the keyboard, and a screen. Plug them together, and ... TADA
jumpship	I see those, that would be nice, but I didn't see a line in, my goal would be to use linux with jack on top, I think it would be cool to use it as a dsp
jumpship	wouldn't vnc or rdp let you use it as a second monitor, I seem to remember a system for using a second computer to drive a second monitor, don't know how well it would work, but sounds like fun to try
cpatrick08	i am running trinity on the maverick and i was wonderig if anybody has tried it on squeeze if so is it better than the ubuntu tde
jumpship	I use squeeze, I havn't tried Ubuntu, but I think Ubuntu is what the developers use
cpatrick08	ok you like it i was thinking bout switching from  ubuntu to squeeze tde
jumpship	It's hard to say, they are very similar, I like Debian, but I've had a few little problems I suspect are because the developers use Ubuntu, for example Ubuntu uses sudo and Debian uses su, you can use either with both I guess
jumpship	The current bug of the week is a good example of the problems I've seen
cpatrick08	yea so what problems do you face jumpship
jumpship	I switched to using sudo instead of su to avoid the bug, other than that I can't remember exactly, I don't know that TDE is really any different in either
cpatrick08	yea but i herd the debian base is more stable than the ubuntu base
jumpship	I guess it depends on what you mean by stable, as in not changing or not crashing
cpatrick08	less bugs
jumpship	I really couldn't say about ubuntu, but Squeeze has been very good to me
jumpship	You might try the mailing list, noone seems to be in here today
cpatrick08	ok
cpatrick08	gotta go ttyl
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tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 503 filed by ogldelphi@mail.ru.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=503 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, kmix wont autostart
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Kodo_	hello
Kodo_	i've just installed trinity desktop, and run into a problem..
Kodo_	i try to mount a home where i've used kde 3.5.10; i have already found out that i had to rename .kde to .trinity
Kodo_	but still, i can't seem to access my Desktop folder in the appropriate way
Kodo_	my home-folder is shown on my desktop
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tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 504 filed by ogldelphi@mail.ru.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=504 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, [PaperCut] search kickoff menu bug/enhancement
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MutantTurkey	Xu_R: dude...
MutantTurkey	this is ridiculous
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MutantTurkey	Xu_R: so the kicker bug i will marked closed
MutantTurkey	if i can find it...
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: srry for delay, have to go out now
Xu_R	D:
* Xu_R was just scrambling around for something
MutantTurkey	except band just got here :P
Xu_R	o.
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KingSphinx	Any idea what's going to happen when Ubuntu rolls over to GTK3? Will QtCurve take care of themeing GTK apps or is there something else that needs to be done?
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kb9vqf	Hi all
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kb9vqf	Xu_R: http://git.trinitydesktop.org/viewgit/index.php?a=tree&p=Trinity%20Desktop%20Environment&hb=HEAD&f=main/thirdparty/libreoffice/3.3.2/patches
kb9vqf	:)
kb9vqf	Not TQt converted yet, but functional with LibreOffice
kb9vqf	It took a LONG time to get that to work
kb9vqf	the OOO/LibreOffice build system is a royal pain
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zacario	hi
zacario	is it possible to display a search bar in konqueror?
Xu_R	kb9vqf: nice :D
kb9vqf	Xu_R: When is the bug day anyway?
Xu_R	kb9vqf: it was supposed to be today...
kb9vqf	ohh
kb9vqf	great :(
kb9vqf	are you still stuck on arts?
kb9vqf	Xu_R: ^^^
Xu_R	kb9vqf: yea :-\
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Look at the CMake D options here: http://git.trinitydesktop.org/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=Trinity%20Desktop%20Environment%20Packaging&h=7be8b00579ccf2169b9c4df673baa4962bc190e4&hb=HEAD&f=ubuntu/maverick/dependencies/arts/debian/rules
kb9vqf	(the line beginning with DEB_CMAKE_EXTRA_FLAGS)
kb9vqf	see what is different in your build
Xu_R	ok, will look
kb9vqf	let me know if you see anything different
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Xu_R	kb9vqf: I put a lot more flags, but it should have had the same effect... I think I need to look for a missing dependency...
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Can you pastebin the failure again?
kb9vqf	note that I need the entire build log
Xu_R	kb9vqf: http://slexy.org/view/s21O10uz5j
tbottu	10kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net changed the Status on bug 503 from NEW to NEEDINFO.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=503 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEEDINFO, kmix wont autostart
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Can I see this patch: arts-vorbis-fix.dif
Xu_R	http://slexy.org/view/s2wuFAPtUn
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Can you send me the CMake cache from that build?
kb9vqf	Specifically I want to know what VORBISFILE_LIBRARIES was set to
Xu_R	kb9vqf: I'm currently running that same build again (no changes), so I'll be able to give you a fresh cache...
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	thanks
kb9vqf	Xu_R: I assume you did pull the latest SVN before rebuilding though?
Xu_R	yup
kb9vqf	ok, good
kb9vqf	my hunch is that -lvorbisfile is not being passed to the gsl linker
kb9vqf	but I will see shortly
Xu_R	ok
Xu_R	hmm... I can confirm I have all the dependencies needed to link vorbis. so it's not a dependency problem
Xu_R	kb9vqf: I hope you didn't mind that I put README.GIT at the root of tde-packaging ^_^"
kb9vqf	just a copy of the one in tde?
kb9vqf	that's fine
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Can I see the cache files?
Xu_R	right on time, the build just failed exactly as you sent me that message
Xu_R	getting the files
Xu_R	http://slexy.org/view/s20LRUSVgO
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Can you try this: In arts/flow/gsl/CMakeLists.txt try adding ${VORBIS_LIBRARIES} right after ${VORBISFILE_LIBRARIES} (make sure there is a space between the two ${..} ${..} structures)
kb9vqf	then rebuild
kb9vqf	it might not do anything but it's worth a shot
Xu_R	ok
Xu_R	ok, rebuilding
Xu_R	kb9vqf: and btw, the README.GIT in tde-packaging isn't the same as in tde ^_^" lol, didn't know there was one in tde :P
kb9vqf	http://git.trinitydesktop.org/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=Trinity%20Desktop%20Environment&h=121b8495bc2f727c92284ce75b8c1524bef5bcbc&hb=1a436852966432ac4be3d4890b3f46c9584d7892&f=README.GIT
Xu_R	ah, ok... mine was more of just all the commands you would need to use ;P
kb9vqf	which one do you like better?
Xu_R	I was just thinking of merging the two - both of them are good
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	merge them in tde-packaging
kb9vqf	I'll look over the result and make final changes before putting it in tde
kb9vqf	how is the build?
Xu_R	ok
Xu_R	still building
kb9vqf	is that a good sign?
kb9vqf	i.e. would it have failed before now?
Xu_R	no, because it hasn't gotten up to that part yet
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	your build log isn't very useful TBH
kb9vqf	debian will say "leaving directory xxx" when the build fails
kb9vqf	yours does not :(
kb9vqf	where xxx is the directory containing the failing library build
Xu_R	it doesn't?
Xu_R	strange, I thought it does...
Xu_R	kb9vqf: I can confirm that fix does work
kb9vqf	Great! :))
kb9vqf	I'm going to dinner; poke me a bit later so that I can upload it to SVN
Xu_R	ok
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Fixed in SVN revision 1248403
Xu_R	kb9vqf: thanks ^_^
kb9vqf	np
kb9vqf	I assume this will help with your RPM builds ;-)
Xu_R	of course ;)
Xu_R	wonderful, arts finished building :D
kb9vqf	great!
kb9vqf	poke me if you have any other problems
Xu_R	ok
Xu_R	kb9vqf: and I revised README.GIT :) http://git.trinitydesktop.org/viewgit/?a=viewblob&p=Trinity%20Desktop%20Environment%20Packaging&h=65c5312e3ec11db32bdc8b90c1da47ca3b12c9cc&hb=6507e11446a26cf7882ecc8658e505b6adce8e61&f=README.GIT
* Xu_R just spotted a typo - oops.
* Xu_R goes to fix that typo ;)
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* strangelv reads an emoil that there was a meeting 46 minutes ago.
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Did I manage to miss the meeting?
kb9vqf	I thought it was Tuesday
Xu_R	I guess I'll push it to Tuesday then.
Xu_R	It was supposed to be today
Xu_R	bug day + meeting
Xu_R	D:
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kb9vqf	ah
kb9vqf	sorry about that
kb9vqf	our dev team seems to be falling apart
kb9vqf	oh well
kb9vqf	we may just end up using the nightly builds for a while
kb9vqf	in the absence of bug fixes I can't release 3.5.13
Xu_R	true. MutantTurkey managed to get some bugs closed, and I'm not seeing anything that would block Trinity on my 11.04 except kdesudo :-|
kb9vqf	how is kdesudo now?
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kb9vqf	it was rebuilt in the past few days
kb9vqf	odd--I didn't see any code from MutantTurkey :-/
kb9vqf	so they must have been invalid reports
Xu_R	kb9vqf: kdesudo is still not working D':
Xu_R	kb9vqf: probably.
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	I'll look into it
kb9vqf	You keep working on the RPM packages
kb9vqf	we need those ASAP
kb9vqf	so that OpenSUSE can throw some of its developers our way ;-)
Xu_R	:)
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Which version of kdesudo do you have installed?
Xu_R	latest - from today's updates...
Xu_R	(I updated today)
kb9vqf	Xu_R: what exactly happens?
kb9vqf	the reason I ask is it works fine here (!?!??)
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Xu_R	kb9vqf: really? it still does nothing on my end
Xu_R	same errors
MutantTurkey	hey
MutantTurkey	band just left
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Which version?
kb9vqf	dpkg -l | grep kdesudo
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Xu_R	4:3.5.13-0ubuntu7+r1246260+pr1~natty
Xu_R	kb9vqf: also, what is /opt/trinity/lib/libgsl.a considered? a devel file?
kb9vqf	it's a static library
kb9vqf	on Ubuntu that's a development file
Xu_R	hm... ok
Xu_R	does arts require it to function?
* Xu_R also wonders if arts can be built without making a static library
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Xu_R	woah o_o updating nightly again did something nice to my desktop
Xu_R	created lots of duplicate icons
Xu_R	that I can't get rid of...
Xu_R	this calls for a restart of the computer! and a hope that kdesudo works again
Xu_R	b/c I just did a full reinstall of it
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kb9vqf	Xu_R: A restart will clear it
kb9vqf	the icons that is
Xu_R	yup - restarted
Xu_R	kdesudo works
Xu_R	except calling kdesudo and nothing else still gives an error
kb9vqf	by itself you mean?
kb9vqf	just 'kdesudo' ?
kb9vqf	that gives an error here too
kb9vqf	a hang up technically
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Xu_R	kb9vqf: yes
kb9vqf	Xu_R: Fixed in SVN revision 1248417
kb9vqf	theoretically
Xu_R	now time to test ;)
kb9vqf	it won't be build for a while
kb9vqf	but you can cherry-pick the patch
kb9vqf	from SVN
kb9vqf	*built
Xu_R	I'll wait for the builds, there might be other goodies :)
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	I actually have a bit in the pipeline right now :-P
kb9vqf	the final move from kde3 to trinity
Xu_R	:D
kb9vqf	literally replacing the string 'kde3' with 'trinity'
kb9vqf	s/final/next-to-last/g
kb9vqf	there is one more that needs to be done sometime
kb9vqf	replacing the string 'KDE3' with 'Trinity'
kb9vqf	that's a bit nastier
kb9vqf	but I did it in the Debian/Ubuntu packaging :)(
kb9vqf	just not in the Trinity source itself
kb9vqf	anyway builds could take a couple days
Xu_R	ok
Xu_R	it'll make the Trinity stand out and the KDE3 begone ^__^
kb9vqf	yup
kb9vqf	and also fix the problems with adept and a handful of other apps that retained "kde3" in their innards
kb9vqf	oh, and there won't be /opt/trinity/lib/kde3 anymore
kb9vqf	only /opt/trinity/lib/trinity
kb9vqf	:)
Xu_R	:D
kb9vqf	but as I said...that's a big build batch...
kb9vqf	it could fail....
kb9vqf	and take a few days
Xu_R	hopefully not
* kb9vqf crosses fingers
Xu_R	I already replaced every "kde3" in packaging into "tde", so I might be a first-look
kb9vqf	keep working on getting preliminary RPM builds
Xu_R	yes... I need those.
kb9vqf	don't worry too much about which files go where
kb9vqf	just get something working
kb9vqf	then it can be tweaked later
* Xu_R notes that Ilya has been getting a bit noisier lately...
kb9vqf	yup
kb9vqf	and it's up to you to silence him with shiny new packages :)
kb9vqf	Although I note that every time I ask him for a patch he shuts up for a while
kb9vqf	and I never get the patch :-/
Xu_R	the udev "patch"? it was a bluff, truthfully.
Xu_R	it's actually a udev automount event
kb9vqf	well I wasn't far off with the "troll" bit then
Xu_R	that has nothing to do with integration :-\
Xu_R	yes, I noticed he was asking about udev rules and automounting in opensuse Factory mailing list
Xu_R	connected the two :-|
kb9vqf	Someone needs to build this http://www.trinitydesktop.org/wiki/bin/view/Developers/KPowerAPI
kb9vqf	I'm not going to hack yet another hardware access library just to have the underlying specs change again
kb9vqf	if it's done it will be done RIGHT
kb9vqf	until then HAL will remain just a prereq
kb9vqf	*just remain
Xu_R	good idea...
kb9vqf	really, there's nothing wrong with HAL
kb9vqf	there never was
kb9vqf	it just didn't extend very well or something
kb9vqf	but Trinity doesn't use those new features...so...
kb9vqf	:)
Xu_R	:D
kb9vqf	we can sit on HAL for a while IMHO
Xu_R	HAL is still usable, so it's fine.
kb9vqf	right
kb9vqf	and there are more pressing concerns
kb9vqf	like getting the *bugs fixed* and the next release out the door... :))
Xu_R	a point very emphasized ;)
kb9vqf	(I'm considering the lack of RPM support a bug right now)
Xu_R	ok
kb9vqf	get the core system working at the very least
Xu_R	ok
kb9vqf	that is, the kde* modules
kb9vqf	and a handful of the apps
kb9vqf	amarok, kpowersave, etc.
kb9vqf	enough to get Ilya or others on board and they can help out with the rest
Xu_R	ok
kb9vqf	My time will be limited very shortly
Xu_R	time to speed up packaging...
Xu_R	ah, even more important then.
kb9vqf	so I will have to leave the project alone for a while
kb9vqf	yes
kb9vqf	Hence the big push to get remaining problems fixed
Xu_R	ok
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Xu_R	kb9vqf: hm... looks like Ilya may have tried to do automounting without hal via mtab instead of udev rules
Xu_R	kb9vqf: http://slexy.org/view/s2NtukzskF
Xu_R	and now off to bed - night
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tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 505 filed by ogldelphi@mail.ru.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=505 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, kgtk-qt3 3.5.13 nightly can't be used
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delight	Is trinity installable next to a kde4 installation ? e.g. does it use a .kde-trinity ? what about commands like konsole, konqueror etc. that are available in both versions
delight	?
kb9vqf	delight: Yes, you can install Trinity alongside KDE4
kb9vqf	it does use its own ~/.kde3 or ~/.trinity folder (depending on the version you install)
kb9vqf	Trinity will always launch its version of an application if it is available
kb9vqf	otherwise it will fall back to the KDE4 version
kb9vqf	Likewise, KDE4 will always launch its version of an application
delight	kb9vqf: thnx for the info ... sounds nice ... what about if you use the shell ?
kb9vqf	shell?
delight	bash .. .command line
kb9vqf	from within a trinity session the above is true
kb9vqf	if you use the shell outside a Trinity session then only the KDE4 versions of the apps are available
delight	say you are on the shell and want to call something like "kate sometext.txt"
kb9vqf	that will work
kb9vqf	If you are logged into a Trinity session, then it will load the Trinity version of kate with "sometext.txt" opened
kb9vqf	if not, it will load the KDE4 version of Kate
delight	sounds great ... I'll give it a shot on my debian box ;) ... got natty on my laptop ...
kb9vqf	OK :)
delight	thnx for the infos
kb9vqf	let us know if you run into problems
kb9vqf	np
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Piki	hi
delight	kb9vqf: a last one ... is trinity comming with amarok 1.4.x ?
kb9vqf	yes
delight	nice
kb9vqf	we maintain it actually
delight	wow
kb9vqf	nothing else like it out there :)
delight	true
delight	;)
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Piki	any android users?
Xu_R	kb9vqf: started on tdebase
Xu_R	but I'm not going to have much time this week
Xu_R	it's the week before school X_X
kb9vqf	Xu_R: OK
kb9vqf	I take it arts/kdelibs are working?
Xu_R	yes
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Xu_R	kb9vqf: hmm... on kde3 (and by extension, kde4) configure options, there is a --with-distribution or a -DKDE_DISTRIBUTION option to specify a distribution name...
Xu_R	anything like that for trinity?
kb9vqf	yep
kb9vqf	well, I was pretty sure, hang on
kb9vqf	it used to exist in automake
kb9vqf	Xu_R It used to be "--with-distribution="Kubuntu (`lsb_release --codename --short`)" in Autotools
kb9vqf	I don't know if that feature was ported to CMake
Xu_R	hmm... looking at CMakeLists.txt, it wasn't.
kb9vqf	well, feel free to port it and send me a patch :-P
Xu_R	ok, when time comes around
kb9vqf	thanks
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simcop2387	has anyone tried getting kdirstat working with trinity desktop?
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kb9vqf	simcop2387: kdirstat is in our archive
simcop2387	cool, i've had a hell of a time keeping a statically built copy of it around and working.  there's nothing else like it and i couldn't get it ported up to kde4/qt4 to keep it otherwise
kb9vqf	yep
kb9vqf	Qt4 is pretty limiting
kb9vqf	we have tried to absorb as many KDE3 apps as possible
kb9vqf	there are many out there that only have equivalents under Windows or Mac
simcop2387	i'm mostly after a bastard hybrid of kde3/kde4 these days.  i've grown to really like kwin4 and a few other kde4 apps, but hate plasma.
simcop2387	but if you guys keep the other stuff alive i could see myself switching back.  at 3.6 i'm likely to give it a really serious chance.
kb9vqf	good to know
kb9vqf	what do you like in kwin4 that we don't have?
simcop2387	honestly it's been so long that i don't remember anymore, but i'm getting a debian vm setup to try trinity right now.  (qt3 and hal are the biggest blockers for me, qt3 i can manage but hal gets in the way for me anymore)
kb9vqf	hal isn't that bad...
kb9vqf	it just sits in the background
simcop2387	it is when it's no longer supported by your dist and lots of packages in the package manager actively say they can't be installed if it is
Piki	hal crashes a lot on my system
* kb9vqf notes that in the current nightly builds we have basic compositing support, and work is being done to make Trinity more compositing aware
kb9vqf	ugh
kb9vqf	problem is there is no good replacement for HAL
kb9vqf	and writing one is going to take a while
Piki	kpowersave constantly loses the battery because of hal
simcop2387	at least for all of hal anyway.  there's udisks and upower for two small parts, nothing else that i know of
kb9vqf	I personally would like to see the kernel/udev stuff settle down more before writing a new library for it
kb9vqf	after all the upheval lately I don't trust udisks/upower to stay around in any semblance of a stable API for a while
kb9vqf	*upheval
kb9vqf	*upheavall
* kb9vqf just cannot type
kb9vqf	Also, I provide HAL for debian in the package archives
kb9vqf	it is bad packaging to conflict with it
kb9vqf	hal-trinity IIRC
simcop2387	my main dist isn't debian
kb9vqf	ubuntu?
kb9vqf	or something else :)
simcop2387	gentoo
kb9vqf	ah, ok
Piki	kb9vqf: i think bero had something other than hal working with kde3 back in 2008 and older, i know it wasn't udev/udisks/upower, you can ask him about it
kb9vqf	another obsolete API probably
kb9vqf	I really would like to wait and let things settle
Piki	maybe, but it worked
kb9vqf	so does HAL ;-)
Piki	not for me
Piki	it's always crashing here
kb9vqf	For the record, I would like to see it replaced as well
kb9vqf	but I have yet to see an actual viable alternative
Piki	what bero used sometimes forgot to unload my flash drive drivers, but it worked perfectly otherwise
kb9vqf	it would cost serious man-hours (read: $$$$) to produce a HAL replacement for Trinity at this point
kb9vqf	it involves some serious low level programming
kb9vqf	have you seen the APIs for udev?
kb9vqf	nasty stuff there
Piki	i don't even know how to program, so i couldn't look
kb9vqf	ah
kb9vqf	Like I said, I wish I could just replace HAL, but it is not trivial to do so
Piki	if something viable does come along, i'd be willing to test
Piki	but it would be awhile before i could develop for it
kb9vqf	and by the time I do, the upstream devs will probably come out with a new latest-and-greatest interface to replace the current upower one
kb9vqf	that's my main concern
Piki	at this point i wouldn't know where to start, but i'll start learning soon
kb9vqf	ok
simcop2387	from what i remember on the hal dev lists, it's biggest problem was that they had some architectural issues (i remember huge discussions every couple of months about if it should do mounting itself and how) and it being difficult to get any significant change into the presentation to things using it
kb9vqf	yes, and those are the same characteristics that made it easy to use on the app level
kb9vqf	the HAL code in Trinity is minimal
kb9vqf	when you start talking about using udev directly, the code will bloat like crazy
Piki	and believe me when i say: if i get into a project that i want/need something, i do it well
kb9vqf	needing a new library, properly designed APIs, etc.
Piki	anyways, i need to get going, early start tomorrow
kb9vqf	ok
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simcop2387	yea i don't remember kde doing huge amounts with it, just waiting for disks and maybe some power management stuff (my hardware back then didn't do acpi correctly so i didn't get to see that)
kb9vqf	yup
kb9vqf	very hard to "just do that" with udev
kb9vqf	you need a full fledged interface library
kb9vqf	which doesn't exist yet
simcop2387	i also seem to remember hal before udev itself being a bit of black magic to get events from the kernel, which i think lead to some of the strange looking things in it later on
simcop2387	moving targets suck :)
kb9vqf	yes, and udev may not be able to fully replace HAL as a result
kb9vqf	there was talk about using devicekit
kb9vqf	I just can't afford to do this unless someone wants to sponsor it
kb9vqf	I did write a spec for the new library: http://www.trinitydesktop.org/wiki/bin/view/Developers/KPowerAPI
simcop2387	hmm
kb9vqf	personally I
kb9vqf	personally I'd rather someone else implemented that library, but I can dream, can't I? :-)
simcop2387	i may look into doing some of it, or sponsoring something since i've got a job finally.  all depends on my time
kb9vqf	ok, sounds good
kb9vqf	let me know what you decide
kb9vqf	when you decide it (no rush)
kb9vqf	from my perspective HAL isn't a major problem
simcop2387	i wil admit if i do anything it will likely not be done fast, since i've not looked at the stuff it'd involve
kb9vqf	oh and BTW we absorbed Qt3
kb9vqf	we are maintaining it
kb9vqf	and providing packages for it
simcop2387	yea i saw tghat
simcop2387	that*
simcop2387	fixed a few security issues with it too i think i read?
kb9vqf	yes
kb9vqf	so essentially you can look at Trinity as just sitting on top of XLib and friends :)
kb9vqf	qt3 is just a common shared toolkit between native Trinity apps
kb9vqf	we're also working on improving compatibility between our version of Qt3 and the "real" Qt4
kb9vqf	Qt3 is just so much faster than Qt4
simcop2387	i mostly see qt4 as a move in a good direction for the future since it'd reduce maintence on yourself (in theory) and because qt4 will supposidly support other display systems (like wayland and i think some work on direct framebuffer stuff)
kb9vqf	actually it makes our job 100x harder
kb9vqf	Qt4 is another stupid shifting target
kb9vqf	it's slow
kb9vqf	it's buggy
simcop2387	huh
kb9vqf	A lot of those irritating KDE4 bugs didn't come from KDE ;-)
kb9vqf	They came from underlying Qt4 problems
simcop2387	i hadn't seen much issues with it myself, but then again i've not tried to make a DE in it :)
kb9vqf	yep
kb9vqf	KDE e.V. tried and you got KDE4
kb9vqf	that should speak for itself :)
kb9vqf	I wonder how Qt4/Qt5 will even perform under Wayland
kb9vqf	There is too much change right now in Linux; AFAIK a lot of companies are rightfully concerned about using Linux vs. more stable alternatives
simcop2387	i played with it a bit but nothing serious, that was a while ago
kb9vqf	honestly Wayland must provide an X11 compat API in order for it to succeed
simcop2387	wayland itself seemed to be faster on the open source drivers than Xorg was, which was a good thing, but it was way to slow at the time.
simcop2387	it already has that
kb9vqf	and we can always latch onto that :)
kb9vqf	If you want bling keep KDE4 and friends
simcop2387	that's the whole reason someone made it
kb9vqf	bling and productivity do not go together really
kb9vqf	IMNSHO :)
simcop2387	yea i've usually got 90% of it turned off, but things like yakuake do help :)
kb9vqf	yep
kb9vqf	transparent Konsole windows and a handful of other enahcements :)
kb9vqf	*enhancements
kb9vqf	oh, and if you want to prove Qt4's inferiority for certain workloads, just try to access your KDE4 session via VNC/RDP/etc.
kb9vqf	you can't
kb9vqf	not in real time
kb9vqf	more like a bad slideshow
simcop2387	which vnc server? with x11vnc it works fine for me, but i'm not 100% sure that counts
kb9vqf	huh
kb9vqf	used to be quite bad
kb9vqf	is that on a LAN?
simcop2387	802.11g
kb9vqf	over the Internet AFAIK you can forget it
kb9vqf	maybe they finally fixed that then
kb9vqf	it took long enough
simcop2387	yea
kb9vqf	well, we're just one alternative of many--pick and choose what you like :)
kb9vqf	the general UI of Trinity is not going to change
kb9vqf	and I am not sure that a Qt4 port is even going to be usable
kb9vqf	last I tried (which was a few months ago) it was horridly slow
kb9vqf	this was part of the reason we absorbed Qt3
kb9vqf	if it isn't broken....
simcop2387	makes me wonder if it's some oddity in opengl drivers, i've seen them do strange things with x11vnc before
kb9vqf	anyway I need to go
simcop2387	have a good night
kb9vqf	you too :)
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tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 506 filed by ogldelphi@mail.ru.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=506 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Move kpdf from xpdf to libpoppler
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* strangelv worries. He relies rather heavily on kpdf
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* Xu_R wonders if kpdf will see any performance regression/improvement if moved to libpoppler
MutantTurkey	I think libpoppler is the answer :P
Xu_R	:P
MutantTurkey	well only because it's easy to link to and we don't have to do any work on that actual library
Xu_R	that does sound easy then.
MutantTurkey	same as with libwebkit vs khtml
MutantTurkey	if we use our outdated rendering, it won't continue to recive updates, unlike libpoppler which is continuing to get updates
MutantTurkey	that is how I see it
Xu_R	and that's probably a good idea...
MutantTurkey	yeah
MutantTurkey	and it has a qt wrapper already
MutantTurkey	i think kpdf currently just has the xpdf code directory copied into it and thats that
Xu_R	o.
MutantTurkey	lol
MutantTurkey	if I recall correctly
MutantTurkey	but xpdf is still updated also
MutantTurkey	last update was 8/16/11
MutantTurkey	but I don't think it's an ideal solution copying it in
Xu_R	I'm not sure which is better in the end... :| and we don't know what breakage new versions might bring
MutantTurkey	libpoppler at least has a large following and an consistant API
MutantTurkey	xpdf is not a library. so it's not really the best thing to do.
Xu_R	oic.
MutantTurkey	Xu_R: also sorry about saturday. there was a ton of flooding to do
MutantTurkey	to clean up
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: np... nobody showed up anyway XD we're going to have to try this again soon.
Xu_R	MutantTurkey: I have to finish up this packaging anyway. kb9vqf told me he considers my lack of RPM packages to test a blocker... so I've got to hurry ;P
MutantTurkey	yeah I consider that a major impediment
MutantTurkey	yeah I consider that a major impediment
MutantTurkey	someone I saw mentioned that "it's only packaged for ubuntu and debian" which is a major turn off for other distros
MutantTurkey	so having mre support would be greate
MutantTurkey	increases user base and legitness
Xu_R	yea...
MutantTurkey	Xu_R: close any bugs though?
Xu_R	haven't had the time to look at the bug list lately
Xu_R	been rushing to get stuff done in time for next week
Xu_R	(school starting)
MutantTurkey	yeah me too...
MutantTurkey	I still havent gotten books or anything yet xD
Xu_R	XD
MutantTurkey	I have tuesdays and thursdays off though
Xu_R	last minute panic :P
MutantTurkey	but I work those days anyway...
Xu_R	well, I have to run. got more stuff to do
Xu_R	later
MutantTurkey	okay bud
MutantTurkey	Seriously ubuntu is pissing me off. Every release they become less standardized
MutantTurkey	they are leaving the FOSS ecosystem rapidly
MutantTurkey	for example, Unity is the new interface. that's awesome! but it only compiles with ubuntu because they have 5000 zillion hacks and patches to make it work.
MutantTurkey	talk about pain in the arse.
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MutantTurkey	KingSphinx: you asked a question yesterday that went unanswered
MutantTurkey	you left, and then I looked and knew the answer.
MutantTurkey	do you recall the question?
KingSphinx	Um, no, I don't recall asking anything yesterday... most recent question I asked was whether or not TDE will have anything for GTK3 integration or not, and that was a few days ago.
MutantTurkey	okay
MutantTurkey	that was it
MutantTurkey	while GTK3 is out. It is likely to take a few years to get it off the ground.
MutantTurkey	GTK2 is so firmly implanted and so few applications use GTK3 at this point
MutantTurkey	so answer
MutantTurkey	is yes but not yet
KingSphinx	Ah, okay then
KingSphinx	Guess it's a good thing that I'm thinking ahead, but yeah...
KingSphinx	Oh! I think I also asked whether updating to 11.10 would be the same as 10.10 -> 11.04, or if any additional steps would need to be taken (this is, of course, assuming there's no repos for Ocelot by that time)
KingSphinx	*Trinity repos, should've been clearer
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MutantTurkey	KingSphinx: sorry I had a meeting
MutantTurkey	you are always supposed to update to 10.10 -> 11.04 -> 11.10
MutantTurkey	I dont think you can skip over one
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KingSphinx	I know, I meant when 11.10 comes out, assuming there's no Ocelot Trinity packages by that time, will upgrading to Ocelot from Natty leave 3.5.12 intact?
MutantTurkey	It might not
MutantTurkey	Ubuntu has been messing around with their paths. I am sure that timothy will provide packages for it though.
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: can you speak on this?
kb9vqf	3.5.12?  not sure
MutantTurkey	what about from HEAD?
kb9vqf	new packages will definitely be provided from HEAD
kb9vqf	we have natty builds from HEAD already, ocelot will be next
kb9vqf	as a rule I don't build packages for Ubuntu until the first beta release
kb9vqf	of Ubuntu that is
kb9vqf	it costs a lot of $$$ to build packages unfortunately
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: ?
kb9vqf	electricity
MutantTurkey	ah
KingSphinx	Not even open-source is free :/
kb9vqf	free as in freedom, remember :)
MutantTurkey	not as in free beer.
MutantTurkey	though that is welcomed
kb9vqf	right
kb9vqf	consider that there are over 300 *source* packages that comprise Trinity
KingSphinx	Though, if I remember correctly, something was mentioned in the logs about OpenSUSE still having 3.5 developers?
kb9vqf	a full rebuild, even on the build farm, can take a couple of days
MutantTurkey	KingSphinx: NOT DEVELOPERS.
MutantTurkey	they are maintainers.
MutantTurkey	they do no work whatsoever to develop it.
MutantTurkey	they are content with "leaving it as long as it builds"
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey is correct
MutantTurkey	which basically ensures that their kde3 branch is dry rotting away.
kb9vqf	bit rotting ;-)
kb9vqf	they tend to use nasty distro-specific hacks to get around build failures
KingSphinx	Wow, that sucks.
kb9vqf	yeah
kb9vqf	but that's all their users want right now
MutantTurkey	and they are jerks and troll our mailing list
kb9vqf	careful...
KingSphinx	Still sounds better than not being able to build at all though (*cough*Fedora*cough*)
MutantTurkey	:)
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: Only one does that
kb9vqf	be very careful
MutantTurkey	:)
MutantTurkey	you are correct I apologize.
kb9vqf	it's OK :)
KingSphinx	Hmm... will there ever be a point that TDE will move past the 3.5.x naming or is it "frozen" there?
kb9vqf	it's frozen until the bugs in the bugtracker are under control
kb9vqf	3.6 should be almost completely bug free
kb9vqf	after all that is one of our selling points--fast and stable
MutantTurkey	:D
KingSphinx	because you don't want another KDE 4.0 on your hands... ;)
kb9vqf	exactly
kb9vqf	we're being somewhat careful about that :)
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kb9vqf	we have enterprise users that would be....unhappy if it crashed daily on a "stable" releaes
KingSphinx	I'd imagine so...
MutantTurkey	unhappy to say the least
MutantTurkey	just found out that my bandwidth on my vps isn't even capped
MutantTurkey	If i run over they just charge me only $1 every 100GB
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tbottu	10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 85 from kdemultimedia to ubuntu.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=85 major, P5, ---, kb9vqf, UNCONFIRMED, Kmix for KDE4 conflicts with kmix for KDE3
MutantTurkey	kb9vqf: I am closing bug 106
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=106 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, UNCONFIRMED, Duplicated country choices on first run as user
MutantTurkey	I checked it, doesn't occur for me
kb9vqf	ok
MutantTurkey	mark as RESOLVED:WORKSFORME
MutantTurkey	or FIXED?
tbottu	10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 106 from UNCONFIRMED to RESOLVED FIXED.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=106 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, Duplicated country choices on first run as user
kb9vqf	that's fine
MutantTurkey	bug wrangler turkey
kb9vqf	in the future WORKSFORME may be better (just FYI)
MutantTurkey	ok
MutantTurkey	bug 112
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=112 major, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, kubuntu-desktop-kde3 installs konsole from KDE4 instead of konsole-kde3
MutantTurkey	I think we can also close
MutantTurkey	this is from 2009. another person configrmed this does happen. and It doesn't happen for me.
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: You did install the KDE4 konsole before testing, right?
kb9vqf	oh wait
kb9vqf	nevermind
MutantTurkey	:)
tbottu	10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 112 from other (any) to ubuntu.
tbottu	10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 112 from NEW to RESOLVED FIXED.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=112 major, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, kubuntu-desktop-kde3 installs konsole from KDE4 instead of konsole-kde3
MutantTurkey	other way around
kb9vqf	yep
MutantTurkey	it would pull in konsole
MutantTurkey	fixed though
MutantTurkey	neptunia seemed to report alot of bugs.
kb9vqf	that's a good thing
kb9vqf	he was testing Trinity thoroughly
MutantTurkey	yep
MutantTurkey	bug 112 seems to be connected
MutantTurkey	to another bug 113
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=113 major, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, If konsole from KDE4 installed along KDE3 packages break out
MutantTurkey	basically, if Konsole(KDE4) was installed, you can't remove it because ksmserver-kd3 trys to rename /usr/bin/plasma
kb9vqf	yes
MutantTurkey	marked as fixed?
kb9vqf	that is due to a design defect in KDE4
MutantTurkey	we install to /opt/ now right?
kb9vqf	it may not be fixed
MutantTurkey	I will check
kb9vqf	it doesn't matter where Trinity is installed to
MutantTurkey	oh okay
kb9vqf	basically plasma is an ill behaved little brat and always tries to launch no matter what, execpt in a hand picked set of desktop environments
kb9vqf	(gnome, xfce, etc.
MutantTurkey	so unless it is marked to not launch it will?
kb9vqf	yep
MutantTurkey	how do you stop it?
kb9vqf	the only way I was able to fix thta was to redirect plasma to a wrapper script that checks for Trinity before launching the real plasma binary
kb9vqf	*that
MutantTurkey	ah
MutantTurkey	okay I gotta catch the train.
kb9vqf	the bug is still valid; installation/deinstallation should not be affected by what is installed or not installed
MutantTurkey	hopefully a few bugs rounded up a day and marked off will help
kb9vqf	but I don't know if the bug is still present :)
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	yes it will
kb9vqf	eventually though you will have to start actually *fixing* them :)
MutantTurkey	it wil make clearer which bugs are actually bugs...
MutantTurkey	I know :D
MutantTurkey	<excuse about working system>
kb9vqf	ok
MutantTurkey	http://www.mutantturkey.com/mirrorlog.html
MutantTurkey	started pulling from trinitydesktop.org also
kb9vqf	cool
MutantTurkey	I need to still setup that script to notify you tgoufg
MutantTurkey	though'
MutantTurkey	okay I'm off. will be back a bit later :D
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tidux	are builds x86-only at this point?
tidux	I tried adding the repositories to my Sheevaplug running Debian Squeeze armel
tidux	but APT couldn't find the armel repository
tidux	for Trinity
kb9vqf	x86/amd64
kb9vqf	I don't have arm builders online right now
tidux	ah
kb9vqf	(or even the ability to use them)
kb9vqf	it's on a to-do list :)
tidux	sheevaplugs are cheap ($99 plus S+H new) and they run Squeeze great from an SDHC
tidux	power's not all that great, so I figured Trinity would be a great way to get a decent desktop for VNC
tidux	as it is, I just use SSH or the serial port
kb9vqf	Trinity + ARM would be a good mix IMHO :)
kb9vqf	I just haven't had time to set up the (unfamiliar to me) ARM build ysstem
kb9vqf	*system
tidux	kb9vqf: eh, once you install Debian (which can be a headache depending on hardware) it's really no different than x86
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tidux	most things "just work" for building from source
kb9vqf	ok
kb9vqf	but in my case I have no native ARM CPUs :)
kb9vqf	so then there's an emulator involved somewhere
kb9vqf	not to mention the interface to my build system and release manager
tidux	ah
tidux	just use basic command-line tools wherever possible and you should be good
kb9vqf	not that it isn't doable, just that it might take a bit for me to get it all running properly
kb9vqf	of course :)
tidux	the nice thing about ARM hardware is you can just leave it on
tidux	my sheevaplug draws ~6W
tidux	my Roku box draws ~2W
tidux	switch one 75-watt light bulb to a CFL and add five ARM servers to your LAN - you'll still come out ahead on power
kb9vqf	of course they have almost no power available for things like compiling or heavy duty computation...
kb9vqf	;-)
kb9vqf	but for embedded systems they are great
tidux	kb9vqf: bah, my Sheevaplug has a 1.2GHz CPU and 512MB RAM
kb9vqf	yeah, and how long will it take you to compile the Linux kernel on that?
tidux	quicker than my old Athlon XP
kb9vqf	but still slower than my Opteron class systems
kb9vqf	:)
tidux	well yeah
tidux	I hang out with people who still do software development on an 8088
kb9vqf	if they made one with a DVI output or PCI slot it would make a great mythtv frontend
tidux	so relative to old DOS hardware it's lightspeed
kb9vqf	yes
tidux	you don't want a Sheevaplug for MythTV
tidux	get a Trim Slice FitPC
tidux	comes with Tegra 2 for a CPU/GPU SoC, and HDMI output
tidux	or DVI-D
tidux	I forget which
kb9vqf	"GPU assisted video playback is not supported yet "
kb9vqf	personally I prefer a thin client with a PCI/E slot
* tidux shrugs
tidux	a Tegra 2 is still pretty powerful
kb9vqf	not enough for HDTV though :)
tidux	au contraire
kb9vqf	anyway, I am pulling this channel off topic
tidux	the FitPC can do 1080p output
kb9vqf	you can play 1080p with a Tegra?
tidux	yeah
kb9vqf	at 60Hz?
tidux	http://trimslice.com/web/
tidux	^ detailed specs are there
kb9vqf	ok, cool
tidux	anyways, how's Qt4 compatibility going?
tidux	I'd love to see SMPlayer look native in Trinity
kb9vqf	read the IRC archive :-P
tidux	where's that?
kb9vqf	http://www.trinitydesktop.org/irc/logs.html
kb9vqf	tidux: Basically, Qt4 is a shifting target, it's slow, it's buggy, and it's a royal pain
kb9vqf	not sure it's worth the compat layer ATM
kb9vqf	I am working on other ways to get the Trinity look+feel on Qt4 :)
kb9vqf	(for native Qt4 apps that is)
kb9vqf	In some respects, using Qt4 is like asking for a modern native Windows C++ application to be rewritten with an old version of Visual Basic
tidux	yeah, I don't even use Qt4 apps anymore - the only things on my system that use it are smplayer and VirtualBox
tidux	and I stopped using VirtualBox in favor of KVM
tidux	Amarok 2.... WHY.
kb9vqf	VirtualBox here is the only Qt4 app I use
kb9vqf	Becuase people are stupid and can't figure out how to use a powerful app like Amarok 1.4?
tidux	one question: will Trinity support other window managers?
kb9vqf	for example?
tidux	I'm one of the 15 or so Window Maker geeks left on the planet
kb9vqf	ah
tidux	and I found a KDE3-lookalike theme
tidux	and a systray dockapp
kb9vqf	well, it is fully NET compliant
kb9vqf	so you should be able to use any WM you want
tidux	heh nice
kb9vqf	For example I know the compiz WM works
kb9vqf	just be sure to run it with the --replace option, to replace kwin
tidux	ah
kb9vqf	or similar (WM may have a different name for the equivalent option)
kb9vqf	anyway, I need to get going
tidux	ok
kb9vqf	hopefully I will have time to look into ARM builds this year
tidux	cool
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MutantTurkey	o/
KingSphinx	I made a Kubuntu Hardy live CD just for kicks earlier... it's nice, but it really serves as a point as to how far Linux as a whole has come in just three years...
MutantTurkey	has it come far?
KingSphinx	Quite far, actually. Seems that while it did recognize my wireless card needed drivers, my display wouldn't go past 800x600 (it's 1280x1024 native)
MutantTurkey	true
MutantTurkey	our autodetect is getting more magical
KingSphinx	Not to mention it felt a bit sluggish even for being on a CD
MutantTurkey	I think the ecosystem is only getting slower though :|
KingSphinx	Trinity or Linux in general?
KingSphinx	Though one notable difference between Hardy and Kubuntu/Trinity is that Hardy included Dolphin as the default file browser... I honestly didn't know there even was a version of Dolphin for KDE3 O_o
MutantTurkey	linux
MutantTurkey	trinity remains fast
KingSphinx	Well, it can't be blazing-fast all the time... no matter how much we all wish it could be, the ecosystem has to slow down sometimes. Don't give up hope though, the Linux community will speed up again soon.
KingSphinx	Heck, we just had GNOME 3 not too long ago
KingSphinx	Keep in mind that the last time we had a real "new" GNOME was ten years ago...
KingSphinx	I think the next time we'll see a major pickup in the community is when KDE 5 is released. Even though I love Trinity, I'm honestly excited to see what KDE 5 will bring.
MutantTurkey	meh
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Qu4Z	I'm hoping KDE5 will be cool, but KDE seems to have moved to inhabit the slot that Gnome used to serve, with Gnome moving off into tabled territory
KingSphinx	And I think that Trinity could serve as a decent alternative for users spurned away by GNOME's radical shift
KingSphinx	Easy on resources, stable, offers good integration (not perfect, but eh) with GTK2 apps...
* KingSphinx feels like a salesperson in an infomercial... >_>;
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Qu4Z	I think Trinity could offer a decent alternative for any users :)
Qu4Z	... except users of Trinity, of course. That wouldn't make sense
Qu4Z	And probably tiling window managers. They're too cool for us
KingSphinx	I never quite understood tiling window managers. I mean, why go backwards in time technology-wise? (...yes, I realize I'm saying this while using what's technically an "outdated" DE)
KingSphinx	Wasn't Windows 1.0 the only version to do tiling?
Qu4Z	Well, some people even type source code into a text editor instead of dragging and connecting components like has been possible for years. There's no accounting for taste, I guess.
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tbottu	10New TDE 3.5 bug 507 filed by m.f.janfranke@web.de.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=507 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, root-pw not accepted in [Alt]+[F2]
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KingSphinx	Whee, earthquakes.
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MutantTurkey	o/
MutantTurkey	hmmm
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calvin	o/
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Qu4Z	Anyone knowledgable around? I'm trying to build trinity on gentoo (there's no overlay or anything yet, as far as I know).
Qu4Z	I assume it has to be built against qt3, and the qt3support from qt4 doesn't cut it (or at least the patch doesn't apply)
Qu4Z	=> is there a pre-patched qt3 tarball around for download somewhere?
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calvin	Qu4Z: ?
calvin	you need to build our qt3
calvin	which is in our git repository
calvin	http://git.trinitydesktop.org
calvin	(sorry everyone is sleeping)
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MutantTu1key	finally emptied my inbox of 4000 messages...
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MutantTu1key	kb9vqf: where are the channel logs?
MutantTu1key	also, I see you've been doing krandr work, anything worth mentioning?
kb9vqf	http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/irc/logs.html
kb9vqf	yes, some cool stuff is now available
kb9vqf	screenshots forthcoming after builds are finished
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KingSphinx	Assuming the work on porting Qt3 to TQt is complete, do you think that TDE could be added to Ubuntu's official repos anytime soon? Or do they not want such an "outdated" desktop?
MutantTu1key	[Cit is
MutantTu1key	sorry
MutantTu1key	KingSphinx: I think there will be a greater chance once we release and have a larger following
MutantTu1key	I mean, repo's work on demand. if people want a program, its more likely to end up in the offical repos
KingSphinx	So it's just a "wait-and-see" thing?
MutantTu1key	frankly I would rather stay seperate, because that wayyou have more control
MutantTu1key	Tim was the kubuntu packager for some time so he is  more familiar with it than I am though
* KingSphinx is busy fixing some "broken" KDM themes
MutantTu1key	for kde3?
KingSphinx	Yep, the Kubuntu O2 theme points to a non-existant wallpaper, so I just had to edit kubuntu.xml to point to the right wallpaper
KingSphinx	Not that hard, really.
MutantTu1key	send that off to timothy
KingSphinx	Though I have yet to see if it actually worked or not... >_>;
MutantTu1key	._.
KingSphinx	Might as well see if it did, brb
MutantTu1key	well if it works, send it off to the ML.
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KingSphinx	It worked!
KingSphinx	Now I just have to see if the userlist variant has this same problem
MutantTu1key	good stuff
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tbottu	10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 507 from other (any) to kdebase.
tbottu	04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=507 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, root-pw not accepted in [Alt]+[F2]
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MutantTu1key	connection problems?
KingSphinx	No, just have to log out to see if my fix worked. Also, the userlist variant is bug-free since it points to the default KDM background.
* KingSphinx actually feels useful for once, even if it was a minor bug :D
kb9vqf	MutantTurkey: http://www.trinitydesktop.org/secret_whispers_0f_a_n3w_p0w3r.png
KingSphinx	:o A new KRandR?
kb9vqf	A better one
kb9vqf	it's not a replacement for the tray icon
kb9vqf	this one configures the entire system from KDM startup onwards
kb9vqf	it supports extended, not just cloned, desktops
kb9vqf	and it can apply the settings on the fly :)
MutantTu1key	thats awesome
kb9vqf	I think this puts us on the forefront of usability...no more Xorg files :))
MutantTu1key	I mean that is a seriously awesome improvement.
MutantTu1key	GO TIM! WOOOT WOOT. IT'S YOUR BIRTHDAY. LETS PARTY! /o/ \o/ \o\
kb9vqf	IIRC KDE4 can't do that either
kb9vqf	or gnome
kb9vqf	especially not the arbitrary monitor config
KingSphinx	I was just about to ask that
MutantTu1key	gnome has a terrible montor config.
KingSphinx	Especially now with GNOME 3
MutantTu1key	good randr support is important to alot of users.
* KingSphinx speaks from experience
MutantTu1key	especially power users.
kb9vqf	When I was testing this I was just having fun dragging my secondary monitor wherever I wanted it :)
kb9vqf	up, down, side to side...
MutantTu1key	kb9vqf: can you switch primary monitors?
kb9vqf	yes
MutantTu1key	bam.
kb9vqf	see the primary monitor checkbbox?
KingSphinx	I mean, I don't have dual-monitors (desk is way too small), but this is still awesome to have.
MutantTu1key	kb9vqf: haven't checked yet.
kb9vqf	I meant in the screenshot
MutantTu1key	oh i see the link now
MutantTu1key	http://www.trinitydesktop.org/secret_whispers_0f_a_n3w_p0w3r.png
KingSphinx	And yet more proof that "old" KDE is FAR from dead.
MutantTu1key	secret whispers of a new power....
MutantTu1key	in the screenshot I am only seeing one monitor
kb9vqf	that's because I only had one connected when I took it :-P
MutantTu1key	oh okay
kb9vqf	more monitors show up, trust me :)
MutantTu1key	I have a buddy like in the cubicle next to me using kde4.
MutantTu1key	I am going to ask him about his randr setup ina minute
KingSphinx	This is planned for the 3.5.13 release?
kb9vqf	yes
kb9vqf	it's in SVN and active
MutantTu1key	KingSphinx:... it is live.